DH finally has to step up. Any advice?
Anyone who has read any of my posts about my very difficult MIL will know my backstory. A MIL who hates me profoundly. My SIL has carried this challenging burden for years and finally crashed and burned in the last month.
DH has happily sat back and let SIL do whatever, stepping in only long enough to give a day or two of respite, or to fix something in MIL's home. Other than that, he's been as distant as he can be, often going 3-4 months without seeing his mom.
He retired, 90% finished with some projects, so he's been enjoying sleeping in and golfing and just not having any 'responsibilities'.
Oops, spoke too soon. SIL broke her right foot and is supposed to be in a 'boot', resting it until they decide the course of action to repair it. Minimally, she is not to put weight on the foot, worse case, she is looking at surgery.
Again, right foot, so driving is a NO. Nevertheless, MIL doesn't see past her own needs and was still demanding SIL's presence on a daily basis.
2 weeks ago, MIL finally wore SIL out. SIL called DH late at night, crying that she just couldn't do it all anymore. In fairness, SIL really never asked for help.
Long story short, OB, DH and SIL got together with MIL's Dr and got a Hospice/In home care company to take over the daily grunt work. They had an all hands mtg with the company and the CNA who would care for MIL. MIL has very poor reasoning skills, to put it mildly, and assumed that b/c she saw all 3 of her kids at once! and the company's title says "Hospice Care" that she is actively dying. (I admit that the title to the co. is VERY off putting, but it is what it is). She's NOT actively dying.
MIL immediately stopped eating, stopped taking her meds and within 2 days was sick and falling down. It took ANOTHER meeting to explain to her that the co is simply taking over her daily care. Checking her vitals, supplying oxygen, making sure she is eating, etc. IDK how often they come in, but it's at least 4 times a week. Our OD is doing her grocery shopping and delivering groceries. Anything that happens while MIL is alone, she is to call the CARE COMPANY first, not one of her kids.
This is the best of a bad situation. She is mad, DH said she yelled at him all day long the other day and he came home dispirited and sad. His eyes are finally open, and he doesn't like what he's seeing.
3 days this week he spent with her-about 5 hrs per day and yesterday he didn't even get out of bed. He was so exhausted and already burned out. I'm seeing the light come on in his eyes that he has let his sweet sister handle this for FAR too long. He is now in this for the long haul.
My heart aches for him, but this is what has to happen, at least until she gets bad enough to be 'forced' to go into care (she's at home).
The other night, he was SO depressed and said "I don't know if I can stand this, my mom is SO AWFUL." Yep, I know.
I told him b/c she will not allow me in her home, nor accept ANYTHING that I might be able to do for her, all I can do is not put any pressure on him to do anything here at home. I will support him by taking care of our lives. He's very grateful, I know, but he has no idea how bad this is going to get.
There's no question here, just a vent, I guess. It's so sad when people cannot or won't see other's needs and put themselves and their wants ahead of everything else. DH is struggling and is going to have to figure out a way to navigate this new normal. It's definitely what I DID NOT want to have happen when he retired, but it is what it is.
My grandma used to always say "if you don't serve as a good example, then you're probably going to serve as a horrible warning".
I am SO GRATEFUL that my mom passed when she did. We didn't get to this point with her, thank goodness.
Different states have different protocols as per the distribution of the estate.
In Utah, estates under a certain amount (and I think, but do not quote me on this!) it's in the neighborhood of $3million...at that time a whole different set of rules apply. MIL's estate is slightly over $1million--which is nothing to sneeze at, but these days? Doesn't seem like that much. I'm not complaining--just glad that there's some money for SIL who needs to be made whole. Money can buy happiness...if you know where to put it.
It does not ever go before a judge unless there are issues that can't be handled. It's rare, but it does happen. My MIL lived so very frugally--she never spent a penny she hadn't squeezed the copper out of it first. For this, I am very grateful. She may have been an angry and miserable person--but she's helping to fund 14 college students, and even tho they didn't even know her--well, some good will come of all this.
DH got 8 death certificates. He went, in person to a couple of the banks/brokers' offices and filed. Put his name on everything as "executor of the estate of" and this gave him the power he needed to move forward. Some places wanted a certified copy of the death certificate, some were OK with a copy of it.
So--he's on everything and can pay any bills that come up (paid for the funeral home, etc. and couple of bills that were not on autopay.)
The only problems he's having is getting these brokerages to call him back to set up a simple money transfer. He's met the one guy and calls him every single day and they guy will not return calls. Tomorrow, he plans to simply go to the guy's office and MAKE him do his job. He'll probably actually go in and go above the guy's head to make that happen. He did all the legwork for disbursal of funds almost 6 weeks ago and this guy is just not--IDK, capable?
A few other smaller investments may take a while--he's not even sure they are still funded, but, hey, gotta find every dime somehow, right? There are a couple that will require a 90 day waiting period, but I think that's the way it is with some funds. Honestly, it's boring as all get out.
AT least DH has given up his original plan which was to wait until everything had funded and then write each beneficiary ONE big check. I made the comment that the 'paper trail' of seeing each fund disbursed a few days after it hits the bank is a better way of keeping track of what money came from where. Until his OB agreed with that, that's what he planned to do. DH came home from lunch last Wed. and immediately wrote out 3 checks for the savings & checking accts. He then RAN the check to SIL. I'm sure was ecstatic. Hopefully, some BIG checks will be cut this week and then the house in a month or so---
It WILL take a year, I'm sure, to sift though all the minutiae. That's OK. The big stuff is being handled and as long as OB is behind the scenes, pushing---it will get done.
I know that estate management in other states can be awful!! I am glad it's not that way here. We don't pay taxes on this money and that's nice. I'm unsure about the money we're gifting the grands--we may have to make that in several 'payments' rather than just one check. We'll talk to our son about that, since he lives in a different state.
DH is going to keep the checking acct loaded with about $2K until he has every single bill paid and every creditor is satisfied. Then he'll close it out.
BTW, we kept his dad's trust papers for 20 years. I just barely pulled a few papers from there last month and we are hanging on to those.
This is a reminder to me that we need to get OUR trust updated!!
On my end, I’m extremely confused about how DH can disburse money already. It seems like MIL passed only a few weeks before my mother did. We have to submit a detailed inventory to probate, including finding the value of bonds we just found a couple of weeks ago. We also had a professional appraisal of the house, and have to place a value on the all of the house contents.
It’s my understanding that nothing can be disbursed until the inventory is approved by a judge, and any potential creditors who want to make a claim against the estate have 90 days to do so before any money is touched (other than to pay funeral and immediate expenses). My brother is literally bankrupt, and I WISH I could disburse money so he could get a place to live! My lawyer says no.
Realistically, this money is going to go a long ways to making me feel whole. Maybe that's stupid, and I always assumed that she'd cut me out of the will b/c she hated me so much--
My girls are planning a family trip, which we will pay for. The rest of the money will be saved (most of it) and we are setting up college funds for the grands. It will go to good use.
He and DH and SIL met for lunch the other day. With the three of them on the same page, DH has had a sudden burst of energy. He actually closed out one account and disbursed a pretty decent sum of money to OB, SIL and us. He actually took the check right to SIL's and gave it to her...instead of waiting and writing ONE enormous check sometime in the fall, when everything is 'done'.
Hoping that next week the largest of the annuities gets liquidated and paid out. With OB pushing a little, and SIL (still) desperate for hers, I think DH will actually get this done.
There is still a life insurance policy they didn't know she had--OB is taking on that and chasing it down. Could be $10K or $100K, it was just a really random piece of mail.
And the house is for sale. I found a guy to keep the yard up, as it was looking shaggy and bad.
Dh had written out the checks while I was out and when I came home he handed me a check for $40K. I have to say, a load of worry was lifted off my shoulders. Actually apologized for not doing this ages ago--but I was just worried about SIL. Told me to put it in the bank and do what I wanted with it.
And I will.
He's still struggling, but hopefully, with OB steering the ship, we may actually have closure at some point.
You have repeatedly expressed that you are disappointed in your husband’s behavior.
I certainly understand your frustration.
Your husband has to want to improve his life for himself. It’s not about pleasing you, his children, siblings, etc. If he doesn’t want the very best for himself first, it’s never going to work. He won’t please you or anyone else, if he doesn’t desire the best for himself.
Your husband has a totally different outlook on life than you.
You set goals because it’s something that you want to do for your own satisfaction. You aren’t looking for someone else’s approval.
For instance, you have a desire to lose fifty pounds. You want this so that you can be at a healthy weight. This is why you will succeed.
You may appreciate your husband’s compliments on your weight loss but you don’t need his encouragement to continue with your weight loss journey. You are self motivated.
Your husband isn’t motivated to set any goals or even to make any plans to achieve them.
What is holding him back? Who knows? He’s the only person who can tell us why he is lacking the motivation to move forward. Maybe he doesn’t even know why. If that is the case, he needs to explore the reasons why with a qualified therapist.
Hopefully, one day he will realize that he needs to get his butt in gear and do something about it. Otherwise, he will remain in a stagnant state of mind.
Wishing your family well.
Mid’s DH can yell at his mother now after she’s gone. I did. When I placed my mother in AL with dementia , that was when she dished out her worst . This was the beginning of my descent into depression . When mom was in AL , I used to write letters to her that I never gave her . Just getting the emotions on paper helped . Then I would burn them so I was not tempted to give them to her . At this point she was a frail grieving widow with dementia.
I was at least able to step up and place my mother in care , and be her advocate, and POA so in that respect I was functioning better than Mids DH was able to . I thought I would feel more relief than I did after she died .
I was relieved but was hit with paralyzing , guilt , anger, sadness , depression and despair that I had not anticipated . It’s a lonely journey out of that abyss . I have one sister who could understand how I felt . She was helpful . My other siblings had distanced themselves from our mother for years , they are dysfuctional . My brother is a cold person , no empathy , his wife the same . I have one sister who is like my mother. My other sister is married to a man who is basically a shut in , rarely leaves the house .
Although my husband was witness to all this he admits he does not fully understand . No one understands being under the thumb of a narcissist unless you have been there . But once you get out from under it’s WORK, to build yourself back up and it takes time.
Mid should go about her life as much as possible .
Sleeping all day, hiding, procrastinating he was a complete failure handling the responsibilities of a POA, hopefully OB will step in and take over the PR responsibility.
Mids hubby needs some serious mental health therapy and she needs to get her life back on track with or without him.
Terrible way to live in a marriage!
- I think that is a HUGE part of why the outcome for my DH has been different than Mid's DH to date. CLOSURE is HUGE. On some level - DH (and SIL) got the opportunity to be angry with FIL and confront him about his treatment of them (albeit current treatment - not the childhood abuse), they called him out on his lies, and how he presented them to people, they told him they loved him but he made it hard to be around him because he treated them like crap and made other people believe they weren't taking care of him.
Now...they also came to terms with the fact that FIL was a narcissist and THAT was a HUGE part of them being able to move forward - even before he died. Because they knew that no matter what they said - he would never hear it. But they said it - and got it out of their systems. They did get to yell at their dad and take him to task. For his treatment of those around him - but also for the fact that the reason he was in the SNF was his own doing - not that they had failed him as he insisted on telling other people. And that they weren't accountable for his choices and lack of taking care of himself.
I think that opportunity made all of the difference in the world. They had already mourned the loss of the father they deserved. They KNEW they deserved better. And that his treatment of them was not their fault. That HE was the one that was broken - not them. And that changed everything. Gave them closure when he passed. They did feel relief. And I think they felt it with very little guilt. They don't miss him. They said everything they needed to say.
For Mid's DH - there may be the realization that he won't get the opportunity to say or do the things he needed to because she's gone. That he had missed chances to take charge of the situation and didn't. And now he has sunk into an abyss where he can't seem to find that door to get himself out and realize that his mother wasn't the only factor in his life. Right now if he feels relief - he feels all of those things and more - like he is a bad person for feeling relieved she's gone. If he feels grief and pain - he's probably in some strange haze trying to figure out direction to turn. I too feel bad for him to some extent because it's hard to really wrap your head around narcissistic abuse unless you've seen it.
But something I wish Mid's DH had been able to do is step up for her in the face of his mother (and sibs). I think that above everything else was the catalyst for my DH standing up to his dad. After his mom passed, FIL just turned ugly with me and our girls and it infuriated Dh. He warred with the upbringing of respect above all else - because he was messing with his family. And that won out. Papa/Husband Bear took over.
I hope for all of their sakes that Mid's Dh come out of this and gets himself straightened out.
I will add Paralysis - Trapped -smothered by emotions.
And surprised by anger at myself for not standing up to my mother sooner .
I felt all of these after my narc mother died .
I feel for Mids DH , really I do . I’ve said it in the past .
What he hasn’t reached yet is enlightenment , that in order to get his life back he needs to make an effort to pull himself up and out of that quicksand . The hardest thing he will ever do .
To realize he needs to find a way to come to terms with it all . To accept that he can’t change the past , and to cut himself slack . To allow himself to be angry without guilt . A deep anger , even yell at his mother. To allow himself to feel rebellion . To forgive himself for not standing up to his mother in the past . To accept that his mother was likely mentally ill , without feeling he has to forgive her right away or ever . ( I personally believe that forgiveness sometimes can be too high a bar , but acceptance is achievable ) .
To allow himself to say “ No mother , I will not do this for you , I will not let you drag me down anymore. “
The courage to ask his older brother to take over settling the estate . To accept that it’s ok to not be ok . To admit he needs help in order to move…..forward .
I feel this in my bones. There has been such a push to get my FIL's estate settled largely in part due to this exact scenario, And there was a VERY STRONG undercurrent of "you must take care of your sister at all costs" being pushed on DH (from FIL before he died, from BIL - but not from SIL ironically) - in spite of the fact that SIL is or has all of the following:
1. A fully grown adult (actually OLDER than DH) who is capable of getting a job and taking care of herself.
2. A fully grown adult husband who is capable of providing for his wife.
3. Fully grown, capable adult children who would help their parents if their parents were honest with them about the situation in any way. (not that I believe the children are in any way responsible for their care - just pointing out that they have options besides DH bending over backwards to ensure that his sister is taken care of "at all costs".
I have been very thankful that somehow when FIL passed - it was more like a veil was lifted from him. Don't get me wrong - he still has the weight of the world on his shoulders for a bit longer until we fully settle it all, but without his father in his ear - he has been relieved of that garbage chatter in his ear. And he has put BIL in his place over and over and I've even seen SIL start to push back on BIL quite a bit. Having their narcissistic father out of the picture has been freeing for them.
That was actually what I was hoping for Mid's family. That once her MIL was gone, her DH might feel freer and relieved of that level of pressure. But unfortunately it seems that apples and trees and all of that. And when someone is raised by someone like Mid's MIL - that level of abuse mentally and physically takes its toll. There is still a lot we don't understand about the impact of narcissistic abuse. And who knows what is going on in Mid's DH's head at this point.
Crushing guilt? Relief - then guilt for feeling relief? Anger? Rebellion? Actual pain?
Unless he shares with her how he feels - we'll never know.
Mids DH also failed to perform as POA
He didn’t give up or perform as POA and now he’s doing the same with being executor of the will .
The man is broken . If it were my husband , the last thing I would be doing is going through my MIL’s financial papers and worrying about a will . Let the siblings worry about it .
Mid mentioned hoping her DH would be somewhat better once the estate was settled , which seems to be part of her desire to get it done , in addition to it bothers her when things get “ sluffed off “ . Not to mention YS who doesn’t know how to handle money, who was given a free car , and was getting paid to “ care “ for her mother is now destitute as soon as her mother dies and “ really needs the money “ . SMH.
I can’t imagine living with all this dysfunction, Mid . I can understand you losing focus of what the priorities should be in this mess.
My advice stands, step back and detach from the estate stuff at least . I seriously doubt settling the estate is going to make a huge difference as far as your husband’s mental health . If it were my husband , my efforts would be focusing on getting him to a therapist and a doctor .
Additionally there is no reason why your husband could not go to a doctor and therapist now. It does not have to wait until the estate is settled .
Your DH should be encouraged to go to therapy now , perhaps the therapist could get your DH to give up being executor, and to understand that there is no shame in giving it up . In fact giving up executor is the last chance that your DH has to say “ No mother , I can not do that “.
Sorry, but with that kind of money Mom could have afforded a very nice AL. Your husband did not have to retire and care for his Mom. He could have said NO. He did not have to agree to the schedule, he could have said NO. They all could have told Mom NO. I really can't imagine one woman having that much controll over all her children. One of his brothers/sister can take the Will to probate and have the Executor changed over to them. sighting that one assigned in the Will is depressed and after 2 months has done nothing to expedite the Will. Just because Mom requested DH does not mean he has to carry out the duty. Really, your husband is not able to do this job. It will only depress him and stressvhim out. He needsvto givebup the responsibility and get help. Going back to work may give him something to get up for. If he is over 67, he can keep his SS and make money without penalty. If under, he can still work but there is an income cap.
I agree, time to step back now. What goes on is between husband and siblings. As I said one of them can contest husband being Executor. Let Big brother have a talk with DH because he doesn't listen to you. You go on with your life. Say what you need to say and then let it go. I am far from religious but I do believe in prayer. I have sent up a prayer asking that God touch your husbands heart and let him see what he needs to do for you. Andvthat he getsvthe help he needs to find out it was Mom who was at fault and not him.
You posted your thread nearly a year ago. Look how far you have come. Your MIL is gone. Her estate will get resolved sooner rather than later. In a year it should should all be over and you will have a nice piece of change to gift your grands. How nice is that.
Hugs to you. Have a good life. 😘
We'll still be here when you come back, but will think of you in the meanwhile.
Good for you. Accepting what you cannot change works.
I haven’t read all of it, but weird family.
I am going to simply take a break from them, from this forum and from even thinking about it. I can't facilitate any change or movement and DH is ornery and irritable. Weather has turned nice and I am going to get in the gardens and get dirty. DH can sleep all day or get up and do something, IDC.
Thank you all for your comments and advice. I think I've hit max overload. Enough is enough.
I'll come back if we ever have any movement on these accounts. At this rate, it will take months.
Um...no...that's not how that works. That's not up to BIL or anyone else. There is a certain % that the executor can "pay" themselves for the duties of executing the estate. And there are certain things that are reimbursable to the executor if they pay out of their pocket, from the estate. SIL already knows that DH will be writing himself a check from the estate account before the estate is closed to cover all of the expenses we have had to pay out of pocket (with receipts) and the remainder of the estate account is split between them that she will not be entitled to.
To quote my long ago psychiatrist, "insight, Mrs. S, is a highly overrated commodity."
Real therapy is about changing your thinking and changing your behavior.
Again DH CAN and SHOULD take the rightful percentage that being an executor is given. It is done for a reason because it is work and deserves compensation.
The BIL has NO say so in any of that and if I was DH I would be taking that compensation just to say FU to BIL.
This is in another reason DH should take the full year to complete the estate. Just to say FU to his BIL and I am going to include YS since she did not correct her own husband and his hubris regarding this.
Same reason why you had to clean up your FIL's piss and crap and his own daughter stood by and did nothing and said nothing.
And vent away MID all you want. Honestly I don't know how you aren't in full blown insane mode and peeling yellow wallpaper from the walls at this point with all this stupidity from your DH and his entire family and the meddling BIL.
F--k this entire family.
Perhaps it would be best to hire an attorney. DH isn't getting a dime for his time (BIL made that clear from way back when DH did his dad's estate)(Yes, I know it's wrong and stupid and cheap, but it's not my family).
An attorney would charge a lot--and if it meant that all this got DONE it would be worth it.
Frankly, I think his OB is going to chew him out a little and he's the only person who can 'force' his hand. He may be 72 years old, but in his OB's eyes, he's still a belligerent 10 yo who doesn't own any common sense.
I just went through all the accounts and there are 2 that DH thought were part of the 'main' annuity, and they aren't, they are old ones that have just been quietly performing pretty well. So the estate is between $700K to $1 million. Don't know. I do not get how DH can just sluff all this off!
This isn't a teeny tiny $5K per person estate. It's a LOT. It's life changing amounts. Why he's so reluctant to move forward is just a total befuddlement to me.
I can't talk to ANYONE about the anger level I feel about this past year+ and all the crap that's come down the line that I've just had to deal with.
My therapist is wonderful, but we're at a point where I can only do so much and then I can't do more. Spending $200 an hour to vent to her may feel good---but I can't effect any changes and I certainly cannot get DH to wake up and get up.
So many huge life altering things happened to DH in such a short time: Forced early retirement to take care of a mean, angry old woman, (loss of self esteem for sure!)..no plans of what to do with all this 'free time'...then the slow decline of his mother and the ineffectual tries to get her to 'come to Jesus' before she died and make nice with so many people she'd hurt, then her death (not 'unexpected', but unexpected nevertheless), then the funeral, burial, and all the financial stuff shoved at him when he had never bothered to look at it when MIL could have explained what she wanted--and now, all the work of closing out an estate and feeling incredibly guilty that he was a terrible son, etc.
It's like 3 big personal issues happening at once and he does not have the ability to handle even one of them.
He didn't plan to retire. His job gave him such a sense of purpose!
He did not want to care for his mother. It was awful and depressing on a daily basis.
She died, which could not have been that big of a surprise, yet he acts like it is. He has not grieved her--not for a minute.
All this responsibility that he doesn't want, but has to do. If he turns the estate over to OB, all the paperwork that has HIS name on it has to be re-done. Just such a waste of time.
Any one of those life altering events is hard--add them up and you have a mountain of issues to deal with.
He's still in bed with a cold and I'm over taking care of him. I'm going in there now to give him the ultimatum that he GET UP and GET SOMETHING done. This week MUST be productive.
I'm not w/o a lot of empathy, but I'm pretty worn out, too.
MIL died 2 months ago today. By this point with my mom's estate, it was all signed sealed and delivered. Yes, it was small and there was no real estate, but my YB simply did it, with no drama and no contention. Watching DH, day after day, just sit in front of the TV with nothing to do is making me insane.
Thanks for being kind--of course all you're hearing is my POV and if you asked DH about this, he'd say I was being horrible.
One thing I hate, truly--is procrastinating something until it's too late to do anything. I'd rather move ahead and do the best I can than sit and wait on others to do 'something' magical. DH isn't out of bed and functional until about 2-3 pm most days and that's just maddening.
Anyway--OB is now home and hopefully can help.