Sorry for the rhetorical question, but I truly need to vent!
I call my mother twice a day, every day. (I know!! Please no criticism! I'm trying my best to be comforting during quarantine!)
This morning as usual, my Mom was complaining about everything.
I suggested she get in her scooter and take a spin around her building.
Somehow she twisted that into a lecture! I explained it was a suggestion and it might do her good to get out of her room. She hung up on me.
I bit the bullet and called her this evening.
I told her we needed to talk. I tried to explain my frustration that she isn't willing to do anything to help herself. I brought up the fact that she is unwilling to take antidepressants or seek counseling. I told her that while I try to listen to every complaint, I am only human and have a lot of my own issues that I am dealing with. I told her that I am not her therapist. I am her daughter!!
I told her that I don't know what to talk to her about, because how are you, meals, weather, what are you up to, the facility are all off limits.
Her response was that I am "b**chy" and "then don't call me "!
While I understand that the quarantine has been so hard on her, I can't wrap my head around how a Mother could be so cruel to her daughter that has been dealing with cancer and had major spine surgery 2 weeks ago. Which is just the tip of the iceberg.
I doubt it will sink in that right now she needs me more than I need her, but I will not call her!
The old adage "You can't help someone that won't help themselves " is totally true!
It breaks my heart to feel it will be a relief when she passes.
Before you judge me for my statement, she has been miserable for as long as I can remember. And despite my best efforts, I have never been able to make her happy or contented!
I am human and I am over it!
God bless all of us that are giving all, and getting garbage in return!!
Our rewards will come later!!
You have enough on your plate between having cancer and spine surgery. Don't add more when there's nothing you can do about it.
So don't bring more on yourself.
If your mother wants to spend her days wallowing in her own misery and complaining then let her. Only don't let her drag you down with her by being her whipping post to take her frustrations and anger out on.
You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink. If your mother won't help herself or accept any good help that's offered, then let it be as it is.
You will never be able to please her and she will never be satisfied no matter how much you do for her. My guess is that her cruelty towards you is nothing new. She probably treated you like this your whole life and you probably spent your whole life trying to get validation from her. It will never happen and you will never get it. Put some distance between you and your mother. Do it for yourself.
That is a horrible thing for your mom to do!
My husband recently finished his radiation treatments for his prostate cancer.
He told me not to tell anyone else about his cancer because he was afraid it would be plastered all over Facebook!
My husband is a private guy and would never want his personal health broadcast on Facebook, so I totally get how you feel.
I respected my husband and didn’t tell anyone at first which became very difficult for me. I needed support because I love my husband.
He told me that he didn’t mind me discussing it on the forum. So I did talk about it here.
Later on he told me that he was okay with me telling my best friend. I told her. She does have Facebook but promised me that she wouldn’t post anything about it.
When my now deceased MIL (an only child), was struggling with her non Hodgkin’s lymphoma, her narc mom was horrendously crazy!
She told people that her daughter was lying about having cancer to get attention!
Who in the world is crazy enough to be jealous of their daughter’s cancer? That’s insane!
I got so angry at my husband’s grandmother! My MIL was a wonderfully kind woman.
As if she could ‘fake’ going bald from chemotherapy, lose weight by throwing up so much and not eating a lot, etc. She even spent time in M.D. Anderson for treatment of her cancer. She was in remission for five years but sadly her cancer came back with a vengeance. She died at 68.
My MIL used to pray that God would take her mom before her dad. Her dad was kind. Wouldn’t you know, her dad died first.
It’s unreal how far people go with their narc behavior, or any other mental disorder.
The inside joke in the family was that my husband’s grandmother came home from a party tipsy one night and that is how her ‘only’ child was conceived because his grandmother certainly wasn’t an affectionate woman!
My NM actually posted my cancer diagnosis on FB before I even had a chance to tell my kids!
I know she did it to get attention for herself! Poor me!! I'm so stressed that my daughter has cancer!
Although I didn't call her out on it, I will never forgive her for causing a firestorm in one of the worst moments of my life!
She would never understand my ire! After all, if it's not ALL ABOUT HER, she doesn't think at all!
I haven't talked to her in about ten days now and honestly it's been heavenly. I think I will just have to go for a lower priced therapist because I am going to have to deal with Mom sooner or later and I need to get my (stuff) together. But I ask myself - what would she do if I died? She'd find some other people to help her, and that's what she can do now that I'm going to make myself less available.
Exactly!!!
If it's not all about them, they aren't interested!
I apologize if I sound like a broken record, but despite my cancer, severe neck pain, broken foot and spine surgery , all my Mom can think about is her issues!
To add insult to injury, what ever I'm going thru, she's having the same symptoms! It not only negates my feelings, it out right makes me nuts!!!
3 times I have completely lost my cool and begged her to "just be my mother "!
It falls on deaf ears!!
Hellebore,
Therapy has been a huge help for me to understand and learn how to deal with Moms behavior. After describing Moms behaviors, she totally validated what I have suspected. My Mom is a narcissist!
You are not responsible for Moms happiness!! Nor is she responsible for your happiness!!
So do what you can for her, but more importantly, do what you need to do to make yourself happy!!😘
No! She no longer has a car.
She depends on me to bring her the things that her ALF doesn't provide.
As of present, I am in the process of printing off all the forms she needs to do her taxes.
It wouldn't be so difficult if the post office still had the necessary forms available.
I am also try to schedule an appointment with the CPA that did my Aunts taxes last year. I am still dealing with so many issues for my Aunt!
You would think that a "normal mom" would recognize when child is in distress, however, I have learned that's not the case!
So what are we left with?
We are left with the realization that we have to overcome our disdain!
We have to be the "bigger person "
We have to bite our tongue in order to keep the peace !
But most of all, we have to be able to look at ourselves in the mirror every day and feel comfortable with our decisions!
Just hang in there!!
(((Hugs)))
Made some calls one day this week to find a therapist but unfortunately spouse lost his job of 17 years due to covid and they're all more than I can pay right now. I'm thinking of trying betterhelp.com, anyone know if they deal with cluster B disorders? I'll also try Youtube, thanks so much for the suggestion.
Had to see mom yesterday at a group of which we're both members and much to my surprise she didn't try to confront me or act like nothing at all happened, which is usually her stock response in front of people. I gave her some cookies and cupcakes which I had brought for the group for Valentines Day but I get the sense she's feeling sorry for herself today - because she feels sorry for herself every day, and just now she posted some passive-aggressive BS on her Facebook page to the effect that other people need to take care of their own mental problems, etc. (This is one of her favorite tactics, the passive aggressive Facebook post. I really, really need to unfollow her and set all my list so she can't see what I post because she's on that website night and day instead of doing the work of packing her house out.)
I'm sure she's feeling extra sorry for herself that it's Valentines and I didn't send flowers or a card, but I *did* send treats also to my aunt who is as self absorbed as Mom. I also didn't call but spouse and I have been running around all day getting the yard ready for a major ice storm coming tonight and I'm sure that's not even on Mom's radar, the idea that DH and I might have concerns or work of our own to do that isn't entirely centered around her.
Honestly I really hadn't realized how bad this has gotten until I took a break from it. I'm not quite sure what to do next. I'm not planning on not ever speaking to Mom again or anything but I really cannot let her self absorbed behavior take over my life. I think I need to write a set of goals for what I want out of my relationship with her and then do whatever I can to achieve that.
A book that's really helped me lately, I may have already posted this: "Children of the Aging Self Absorbed" by Nina Brown. Brown points out that self absorbed people cannot be satisfied and there's always going to be some problem or complaint, no matter what we as their caretaking children do or say. That's honestly giving me a little peace, because I am going to have to stop trying so hard to make mom happy.
xrayjo, will your mom get in the car and come over if you keep ignoring her? I suspect mine will, and soon she'll start enlisting other people we both know to 'find ways to solve my problems,' because of course it's all *my* fault that there are issues in our relationship right? 🙄
Thank you!!
Hellebore,
As Chris stated, there is tons of helpful information!! I have watched a lot of YouTube videos on dealing with NM.
One thing I found poignant, is when the "target " of a narcissist starts setting boundaries and the narcissist can no longer bait them and feed their need for conflict, they will move on to someone else!
Food for thought!(pardon the pun)lol
You are so right; our thanx will come from somewhere else
Chris is on point!!
I was calling NM twice a day when the lockdown happened.
It got to the point that I just couldn't take the negativity any longer. I have had way too much on my plate and my health was and still is suffering.
After I posted this, Mom and I didn't speak for 3 weeks. She finally called me, but no apology!
She said "I think you've made me pay long enough!" Ugh!!
I set boundaries! I told her that we should only talk a few times a week. Maybe then we'll have more pleasant things to talk about.
That worked for a few weeks, but now she has started calling me everyday! I have started ignoring the calls and let it go to voice mail. If it's emergent, she'll leave a message.
I found my therapist by Googling one that specializes in NPD.
You're feelings matter!! The quality of your life matters!!
Surround yourself with other females that are caring and nurturing, because you're most likely never gonna get it from Mom.
My Mom is in the throws of seeking another living situation. I know she is going to expect my husband and me to help her move.
I don't agree with her decision!!
My therapist has told me that I need to put this all back on Mom.
"I'm glad you found a place. Who have you hired to move you?" Etc..
It's not going to be easy!!
We all have such similar stories!
Keep us posted!
Hang in there! (((Hugs)))
I was already depressed over this long before covid honestly (another factor: Mom has an elderly sister who's easily just as manipulative if not more so than Mom herself, both of them expect me to sit for hours and listen to their problems.) Now that we're going on months with spouse out of a job and no end in sight for economic improvement or even being able to go out to the movies, I'm getting a little worried about myself mentally. I should have called to find a therapist today but I sort of don't know where to start to find a counselor who can help with something like this. Maybe my local council on aging could help. (Sounds like you may be in the UK, here in the US a council on aging just means a local group which is funded by government and charity which helps the public find resources for older people.)
>>You’re getting stressed about it as you’ve been conditioned to solve all of her
>>problems. You don’t have to live amongst that mess but if she wants to, fine. If
>>not, she can hire someone to clear it for her.
You're so right. Part of the issue is she keeps pleading poverty and telling me how poor she is - probably so I'll pay for the people to clean it out and/or come over there to clean it out myself. But it simply is not my fault that she retired at 52, failed to save money or make any plans at all other than counting on me to work at her care full time. Luckily I figured out how manipulative Mom can be a long time ago so I'm probably not as susceptible to it as some people might be, but it isn't what I'd call enjoyable.
The hardest thing, overall is probably pushback from other people who don't see her manipulativeness and want to give me a hard time for being the unreasonable bad daughter after Mom calls to whine to *them.* I have yet to think of a good 'comeback' line for that - have any good suggestions?
As soon as I found out she'd removed my things I called spouse with our BIG pickup and got 98% of the rest of my stuff out of there. I'm going one day this week to make sure there's nothing else there I don't want given away. I don't *think* she'd give away artwork I did over the years but honestly I have no idea since I really don't know why my own things were the first and only items (so far that I've been able to determine) to be given away. She has *piles* of hoarded stuff that hadn't been touched.
But I need to not let this drive me crazy. As I was standing there taking in the loss I just started thinking over and over, "This is not normal." My only sibling, a half brother, has a cluster B personality disorder also (borderline) and I suspect that runs in families. My dad died 20 years ago and I miss him terribly since he was often the only person I had in my corner when mom/brother would do something horrible. At least my paternal uncle is still around, I think I'll call him tomorrow.
I've been told that our most dominant traits get exaggerated when we get older.
God bless all of that are caring for narcissistic parents!!
I'm so sorry that your Mom gave your things away!!
That's not ok!!
Chris I'm so sorry to hear you believe your mom would expose your family to covid. It's so hard to deal with feeling like there's someone in your life who is so utterly self absorbed that nothing else seems to matter. At least we on this sub know we're not alone. <3
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only person who's dealing with an elder and her "stuff." Like a lot of people I have a lot of tangled up feelings so I'll try to get this in some kind of order.
For starters I know full blown actual narcisstic personality disorder is somewhat rare but I'll be damned if Mom doesn't have what I've read are some of the clinical symptoms. The ones that really seem to affect me are feeling that I am extension of her with no rights/feelings of my own, and manipulating to get her way. She's also extremely susceptible to praise and flattery to what I feel is an unhealthy degree and will go to great lengths to get it, such as doing an unpaid project that lasts months, etc. (despite her professional degree) which is one reason she hasn't saved any money for retirement.
I admit I'm using her having disposed of my things to take some time off. My spouse was laid off due to covid last summer and has had a difficult time finding another job. Our area is one of the highest most affected places for covid so none of us can easily go anywhere, spouse and I don't even go to the grocery store but opt to have things delivered. But Mom expects to call me EVERY day so she can vent for an hour about how difficult her own life is since she hasn't saved money and is going to have get to rid of a lot of things and move to a smaller place. Rarely are there questions about spouse or myself, just more that I'm expected to call and "hold her hand" since she's living alone. (She's 82 which scares me b/c she really is healthy as a horse for her age and I don't know what we're going to do if she lives well into her 90s but I just can't think about that right now. She does have trouble with a bad knee and has trouble walking but neither the hoarded home nor her financial trouble is new, and something should have been done about this a long time ago before it all became a crisis. But that's my mother for you.)
Honestly there's more, a lot more, but I think I'm dealing with a clinical situation and I really probably should get some professional help. Long story short I'm just really working on boundaries. Piper, you're right that any suggestion I might come over there and help her go through stuff pretty well went out the window when I realized she had gotten rid of so much of MY stuff (which I was storing over there because we were having sidewalk sales in her neighborhood for a while, but she knew I expected to come get it and sell it on eBay - some of the items were designer purses, bags, shoes, that kind of thing.) Meanwhile her own things appear nearly untouched and we're a year into the pandemic during which time she's been telling me she's been "decluttering."
I hadn't been over there for a long while b/c she had a water leak and was telling me things were in real disarray so I figured best not to visit - she came to stay with me for a couple of weeks in December so I could play nursemaid and help pay (!) while she had some eye surgery. Of course now that is all being twisted into something it isn't.
She actually claimed, when I said I'd have been glad to come get my stuff if I'd known it would be given away, that I "wouldn't have come because I hadn't been over there for so long." There's more, but my mother is much more manipulative than most people and her words sound almost unbelievable which again is why I do think I need to get some professional help. It does help to post here though when she does things such as try to get me to call her, send me messages, tell other people to get me to call her, that kind of thing. Like many narcissists who seek validation other people who know us both would never believe some things I could say about mom - she's so careful to always put up a false front to get the praise and flattery.
And good for you for leaving the supplies you took to your mom at the door. I fully understand the conditioning to please them that we've carried around all of our lives, but you are really breaking free and I am happy for you.
So your mom threw your stuff out, see that just amazes me. I can't wrap my head around this type of behavior. I still have the Christmas ornament I got for my son's first Christmas and he is 36! Seriously I can't imagine having to unload my cluttered house and throwing away his things without asking, FIRST no less!
Narc mother's are truly damaged people who seriously hurt their own kids with zero remorse.
I'm sorry you are dealing with this, but now that your stuff is gone, if I were you I wouldn't lift a finger to help my mom declutter and get rid of her own stuff. She doesn't have dementia, so tell her to start packing or hire someone.
Yes it's not only okay, but healthy for you to be unavailable.
By the way, did you ask her WHY she threw your stuff away, and if so what was her response?
I suppose folk get bored, like to dream up wishes...
My relative once thought a little dog may be nice, a little company. The flying monkeys were sent out... 🙈 How could she get one? Where from? She would need YOU to buy it for her & pick it up.
Me: could she actually look after a dog? Feed, walk, wash, take it for regular shots?
🙈 Oh, she would need YOU to take it to the vets, maybe for YOU to come walk it a bit... groom it...& I suppose she could feed it... but maybe YOU would need to buy the dog food.
I struggled to comprehend the sheer lack of common sense, the complete lack of concern for the animal or the demands on my time/effort.
I re-phrased it back "So you want me to get a dog, be completely responsible for it but let it live with her?
(This was before I found the wisdom of the good folk here at the forum).
Now I see it as a flying monkey trying to bring what she wished for.
Just crazy 🤯 Like letting a 4yr old buy your weekly groceries: Chips! Icecream! 🍟🍧 Cookieeees 🍪🍪🍪🍪
Went over there last night and found out the "decluttering" she said she's been doing for months consists thus far of giving some things of mine worth at least $1000 to the Goodwill without asking or telling me, while everything of hers remained untouched. I mentioned she could have called me to come get them, and got the lies and gaslighting with which I'm sure you all are familiar.
I am so angry. I am so tired of listening to her complain about problem that HER actions created. I didn't make her fail to work or save or accumulate so much stuff that now this is going to be a major project, or wait years beyond what she should have (since her health is now bad) to divest of stuff and move. I know from my own experience the clutter is probably ADHD related, it's an inherited condition and I know I got it from her, but there's no way she'll ever take it seriously or get any help for it.
My only sibling, a half brother also has a personality disorder and will be no help. I'm really cracking up. Time to start thinking about what *I* need, which is the UNAVAILABLE sign someone posted above!!
Your siblings sound like one of my younger brothers!!
There's a name for their compliant behavior, they're are "Flying Monkeys "!! Lol
Bundleofjoy,
Thank you so much for your kind words!
I'm feeling pretty good!! Fingers crossed that 2021 is gonna be a much better year for all of us!!
(((Hugs)))