I am a 40 yo single mum, my mother has moved in with me to help with childcare 9 years ago following my divorce. My mother is a difficult, headstrong manipulative person, who is always right of course. She is an ex school principal and hence 'knows' how to parent and tutor my son more than I do of course. Since I have been the bread winner I was absent from home more than her and she ended up caring for my son quite a bit (in her own way which I tolerated but over time it really started weighing on me). She had originally suggested moving in to help following my divorce and at the time I agreed and I now find myself trapped in my own house. I no longer want this arrangement. I have a sister but we never broached the subject of mum's care and she never offered / I never asked any help. My mum is 65 and only minor health concerns (thyroid, incontinence, spine problems). Being at the head of this family, financially supporting my mum and getting on with her over these years is really taking toll on my mental health. My son is now a pre teen and whilst my coping style is to keep quiet and let the tide pass, my son breaks into arguments with her which to me sound quite awful. Mum says son is putting up a show for me and problem is with my too permissive parenting. My therapist suggested I break to mum that she needs to move out. I am full of guilt as grappling with having to 'chuck out' someone who supposedly sacrificed her life for me (her own words). Any thoughts how to broach the discussion? She is retired so likely (she left her job to move out with me and I have been supporting her all these years) I have to support her moving out financially and going forward too. How much time would be reasonably to give her to think over what arrangements she wants, provided we live separately? Any red flags / advice you would give for the next steps? I think the next 5-10 years she will be OK health wise, but after that the arrangement may need to be re-thought again as she will age further. Thank you
it will always weigh on your mind that you told your mother that she has to leave....your mother. She will always feel really bad inside that you did ‘‘this to her, her own daughter.’
The therapist’s job is to work with you to resolve problems.She/he can’t tell you what to do. What seems right to them may be not right to you. Financially your mother is dependent on you...it’s very hard to live on social security.
I wish you the best. If your mental health is at state you’ll have to do something.
i wish you the best no matter which way this goes.
I remarried at 65. I started working for the government at 45 and after I retired at 65, I went back part time and worked until I was 83, didn't work at 84, worked the summer I was 85. They asked me to return to work at 85 because they were having problems finding young people who would show up for work if the beach called or they just didn't want to get out of bed.
I agree, she can view herself as 65 years old or 65 years young.
This discussion is teaching me so much about my own future possibilities and how to live life 'later in life'! This forum is a godsend. Thank you.
But she really gave up her life and future income to help her daughter. I am horrified by those who want Mum out, after she gave up retirement.
Live on Social Security? You must be joking. Social Security is based on how much was taken out of your paycheck for SS. In my state if you work as an educator there is no SS.
Some countries take take care of their elderly family members in the home. America is losing empathy for anything.
Conceptually, I like the idea of living in a MIL type of set up - i.e. close but with some independence.
Mum did stress that she needs 'my moral support' to rethink her life and her view of self in this country - I agree with the posters that I cannot simply show the door to a 65 yo immigrant who never worked independently in this country in midst of covid. She is a smart woman and surprisingly, after 2-3 hellish days of tears etc we are able to talk more openly and constructively. I also believe that I am able to handle these discussions less emotionally and finally am less terrified of her reactions and attempts at manipulating me with guilt thanks to therapy. I will talk to my therapist re what she thinks about possible join therapy or separate one for mum.
This would also give her purpose and refocus some of her talents.
I would tell her that while you love her and you appreciate what she has done you are in a "better place" where your life is concerned and you want to be on your own with your son.
Since this has been such a long live in relationship I would be generous with a "move out" date. (3 to 6 months would be very generous)
Help her start looking for a place of her own. If she qualifies for housing the 3 to 6 months might be necessary if there is a wait list. Otherwise a Retirement Independent Living Facility if she would be up to Community living or an apartment or house of her own.
Don't know if this is even a possibility but....
Another option if it is possible if you can make your home to have an "In Law Suite" with separate entrances with LOCKING🔑 doors that might work. If that is possible she does not have to move, you get your privacy and also control of when and how often she visits. This arrangement would also allow the ability for her to age in place and make it easier for you to help care for her IF that is what you would wish to do.
At 65 she is very young and can and should be out and about with her friends and have a live and activity of her own.
Inform your mother that her behavior is not welcomed and it is time for her to move on. Guilt trips are just a manipulative way for someone to enslave you.
If she retired to move in with you, I would think she has retirement income and you would not be her sole provider. If she has managed your kid and your home all this time, you didn't really support her - whatever you did (rent/utils/etc) was a sort of payment for her household duties. If you talked her into retiring with an income too small to live on, you have to have some responsibility in helping her ongoing (that would be the fair thing to do). Instead of putting her somewhere where you may be trying to finance two households, why not find a bigger place so your family has more private area and she will, too. Maybe a house with efficiency apartment/garage apartment totally separate from your house. Then as health problems arise with age, you won't be looking for another arrangement until she simply cannot live alone or needs a lot of in home care.
Giving her a separate place means stop using her for your household needs. You will take care of your own living area, meals, laundry, etc. She will take care of hers. Also, it's time to address your son - you make it clear that g'ma came to live with you and help because of him. She gave up her job (and future income) for him. He will treat her with the respect she deserves and no more mouthing at her. Find consequences for his actions: Remove the cell phone, the gaming, or whatever is important to him. You finance those things since he is too young to work, so remove them. And if his dad in the picture, work it out with dad to be on the same page. It is so very important in the terrible teen years.
Shane's suggestion to perhaps find a shared living arrangement that allows each of you your own space sounds intriguing. It should be a place that allows you to share costs, but keeps your lives separate. She should be encouraged to continue exploring her own wants/needs and expand her horizons. She is still very young and relatively healthy, she should be spreading her wings and trying to reap the benefits of being retired and free to do the things that interest her.
Given that financial resources might be tight for her (and yourself), this would be a good compromise - you share the costs (you did benefit from many years of not having to pay for child care costs - sure, some of that benefited mom too, but should be considered.) You shouldn't have to compromise your own finances and shortchange yourself for your own future needs and a shared but separate living arrangement might be beneficial to both of you. This way you wouldn't really have to "float" her for a few years until she might be able to afford living alone. Whatever income she has can be used to help cover the cost of the living arrangement, and pay for her own needs/wants.
The biggest issue, it seems, is really a need to push back on her to allow you and your son to live your own lives as you see fit, without being told what is right/wrong! You are an adult, and even if she doesn't agree with what you decide for yourself, it is none of her business. Voicing her opinion is one thing - that you could learn to ignore. Shoving it down your throat is another thing and should be stopped! You can say you welcome her insights, but not control. Sometimes wisdom comes with age, but sometimes parents can't give up that "parent" role.
As for your son, thank her for the care she provided and tutoring/learning as well, but stress that he is growing and becoming more independent and needs to have some freedom and space to make decisions of his own. Sure, kids all make bad decisions from time to time (don't we all, even as adults!!), but we are there to support them and correct them when needed. When they are getting older, this should not be all the time! They do need to learn from mistakes (hopefully they've learned enough already not to make any HUGE mistakes!) I used to take the approach that if you build a wall to restrict your children, they will attempt to get over, under, around it or knock it down. Don't build walls, build confidence, build the ability to make good decisions. I told my kids I didn't really have any "rules", just strong advisories. Those were to understand that for anything you say or do, there might be consequences, so think carefully before proceeding!
Hope that some positive results come from having some good discussions. Hopefully you both can find a good compromise to move forward with.
You should be up front with her and schedule a time for the two of you to be alone, You might go to lunch then let her know you appreciated her help but that your son is old enough now and you have decided along with your Therapist that it's in the best interest for everyone, for your mom to have her own place.
I would let her know of a few living places that you can go check out with her.
They have Senior Apartments that only allow people 55 and over to rent.
This would be the best solution fir now and when the time comes that she can't live by herself, then at that time she can move into a Senior Home that depending on her income which should be covered by her Social Security.
btw, my mom started to do the same thing when she sold her home and moved in with us "temporarily" for 6 months (which was supposed to be only a few). I ended up typing up house rules and she decided she was ready to move out. LOL she now lives in a villa 1 hour drive from us. I try to visit weekly.
It is not about who owes who what. It is about how to reconfigure living, communication and power arrangements so that all flourish. How to reset expectations. How to open up a discovery process and uncover and develop multiple solutions. I don't know what you can afford but I do think that she deserves support from you. How much, for how long, and in what form is something to explore together with the help of a therapist and, potentially, a financial planner.
I have recommended this book before because I used it in my professional work leading people, teams and companies through transitions. I found it useful in personal settings as well: "Crucial Conversations: Tools for talking when the Stakes are high.". It offers a framework to clarify your own needs and story and to communicate with strength and love about core issues. One of the first steps in the process is to create safety for the conversations to take place.
I wish you strength and clarity. Reclaiming your independence is not easy especially when you are dealing with probably the two most primary and precious relationships in your life: your mother and your son. I am only one time zone away from you. If you want to have a conversation, I am happy to talk with you.
I think that her comments about not being able to trust you and wanting to kill herself would prompt me to call the police and have her committed as a danger to herself. I would also no longer trust her with my child.
Perhaps making it clear that you have the final say over your son could help alleviate some of the stress. But your son needs to know that he can not be ugly to grandma, he should not be privy to your feelings about her either. He needs to be respectful of his elders or suffer the consequences.
If your mom doesn't want to lose any quality of living then she needs to sell her assets and pay her share, you are not obligated to financially support her for the rest of her life in the manner she chooses. You are not a spouse and she is not entitled to that kind of support. Sorry mom, I refuse to not have any assets to care for my son and myself in old age so you don't have to do anything you don't want. Life happens and things change, but that doesn't place the burden of her future on you.
If she decides to kill herself, you had no part in that, it was her choice and hers alone. I think that people that use that bs to control their "loved ones" should shut up and get it done already. It's hatefulness at it's finest and shows what a true piece of crap they really are to use that game as a means of control. I would tell her that she crossed a line with that and she can get out and live on the streets. That is how I feel about that hateful behavior.
The OP would have had significantly more problems if her mother wasn't available to backstop her while the boy was growing up. That needs to be acknowledged and included in the restructuring of family relationships now.
Anyway. A lot of emotional talk and tears from mum. We both recognised all the good that came from our partnership over the past years. She asked me what it is I want her to do (kill herself maybe? see above). I said no. I don't want her to kill herself but I want her to start turning her focus away from me and my son so much and more into herself. She told me she is paralysed by fear for her future, terrified of me and that possibly she cannot trust me after what I have done (ie, had the talk). Again, I tried to 'just listen' and mentally put the responsibility for these feelings back to her, not to me. We then talked a lot about the childhood stuff and the past, how over the years we found each other in these situations of mutually rescuing each other. I said we should come above that now and more consciously choose our futures.
Then - to open up another can of worms - I openly asked her for how long she expects me to financially support her. Another big shock and more tears - which told me she probably expected unconditional/full support for as long as it is needed. She said with me and my sister she never had thoughts like this and that whatever was needed she gave it and would take the last bit away from her and give us if needed. And since we are family we should be the same. I am not sure about this bit though - she is our parent hence her attitude is understandable. Yet the other way around? Without sounding like a monster I would benefit from some views as to 'how much support is enough' and is it immoral to put a boundary between the resources going from adult child to the parent. She said she would not want to lose in quality of life if living separately.
I think overall the fact I have initiated re-negotiation of the relationship shattered both of us but ultimately it is not necessarily a bad thing. We said we will talk more again after few days.
Just remember, a parent has very clear responsibilities toward their children that are not automatically transactional. This is not about what you "owe" her for fulfilling her responsibilities in raising you. She also chose to help you raise her grandchild - again, her choice, but with no agreement at the beginning that the years of helping you would result in this arrangement for the rest of her life.
If you want to talk about it as a business arrangement, you HAVE paid her for helping. This was not free for you. You've paid her by supporting her financially for years.
Hang in there!
Is/was there no discussion throughout the years between you and your mother about her future? Did mom assume she would live with you forever?
While you say you supported her I’m thinking it was more of a symbiotic relationship if she provided day care to your son for a decade. Childcare is expensive.
Now your son is pre-teen, at the age of spreading his wings and pushing boundaries. You say you’ve heard them bickering and you don’t care for it. Perhaps a discussion with your son is in order about respect and patience. This is a great time as these skills will help his character development.
Your mom left her original country when she saw you needed help. No matter what her profession was. She too made sacrifices. You accepted this as it helped you immensely. I’m sure she provided emotional support to you as well going through your divorce.
My advice would be to help mom sell her property back home and use that money to find mom an apartment near you. Or maybe you all can move to a mother/daughter set up (a home with a MIL suite; separate exit, etc.
I would not feel right just telling her that she will be on her own soon and the faster she works this out, the better. Imo you owe her some assistance and should help her find options. It may take a year to do this or two months, who knows? But in the interim start talking about what issues are bothering you with your mother and vice versa and try to work out some sort of compromise so everyone can live with while you figure it out.
People here always say you should not feel guilty and you shouldnt. That said you very well may, but that should not change your desire to do whats best for you and your son.
My approach is a bit different, a kind of mid-course correction, based on what each of you have learned, where you are now, where the world in terms of the pandemic is, and how you can build on your individual and collective experiences.
Your comments to others' posts suggests to me that you have good analytical insight. If I were in this situation, I'd continue to have the heart to heart talks, frank but polite and sympathetic discussions, and explore opportunities, both for separate living and living together.
Each of you has benefited from the existing situation; acknowledge and build on that; don't discard the value of learning from experience, but I think you already know that.
These are difficult times under any circumstances, and finding a place for your mother now could I think be detrimental for all of you. What I think could apply is what happens in business (in my experience) when people aren't getting along: you sit down, outline the problems, and each suggest solutions as to his/her approach and an integrated approach for the 3 of you. Then you try out aspects of the solution, reassess and move forward.
This doesn't mean that you discard any thoughts of Mom living independently, what it means is that you approach in a more dispassionate mood, so that each of you can analyze your feelings in a less strained environment. You're not locking any of you into any commitments except to analyze the situation.
And one of the topics would be how to integrate your mother back into a life of her own, perhaps in some kind of remote teaching capacity. Your description suggests to me that she's an intelligent, accomplished person. Teaching during a pandemic is undergoing some revolutionary changes; she may have insights, whether or not she's more or less computer savvy than existing teachers are.
There are far greater issues addressing the welfare of the children and their interaction not only with each other, the teachers, families, but also with the material they're learning. A major component of student interaction, the challenge and excitement of learning and sharing, is being shelved, hopefully temporarily, but that's a gap that needs to be addressed. A seasoned educator may be able to offer some good insights, and that's where I see your mother potentially playing a role.
Notwithstanding that, there still will be teaching or tutoring opportunities when/if the pandemic is controlled, and thereafter. She could also teach noncredit courses in adult education, again, looking down the line to future plans. Having an educationally challenging future may help each of you adapt to the next several years.
As an immigrant, she also has qualifications to assist others, not only in teaching ESL, but in other methods of adaptations. This can be very rewarding, something which not only is helpful but mandatory for successful integration into a different country.
Personally, I think she's much too young to focus on all the issues of aging other than for planning, but that a vital 65 year old still has good years ahead of her, and could leverage her teaching experience to create and employ those opportunities.
So focus on those positives, reinforce her self esteem (and yours and your son's), and the 3 of you can move forward, while still planning for the elder years. Just don't let aging dominate your thoughts; keep it under control.
"But she often says she is lonely and lacks communication."
You indicated she transitioned well and learned the language (which is great, because English is one of the harder languages to learn, it is such a mish-mash of many other languages!) She has made a few friends, traveled, taken courses.
I would suggest doing some research to see if there are groups associated with your old country - with members who immigrated like you and your mom. If she could meet up with some, even online, she might connect well with them, even though she, you and most of them don't want to return. While it is great to assimilate, and "fit in", it is also nice to have those who share a similar background and understand.
It is something that happens often in the US - when immigrants come in, they tend to end up in areas where there are others from the "old country." This can last for several generations, depending on how well they assimilate. Irish, Italians, Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc. They find some comfort in being with others who share the same background, but over time and generations can meld into our "melting pot."
Being held emotionally hostage to your mother is very unhealthy and she should really be ashamed of herself for doing such a thing. But hey, I'm sure nothing is 'her fault', it's always someone else's to bear, isn't it? These types of people use guilt and manipulation as a weapon, and leave us feeling like pawns in a game........and emotionally exhausted all the time as a result.
Give your mother 2 months to find her own place AND to figure out how to finance it. How can YOU save for YOUR old age when you have to pay HER way through HER old age? You can't. And what about your son? Saving for his college won't be possible when you have to finance your mother's life. You've already done enough, now it's her turn to pay her own way and be the adult here. She can sell her place back in her home country to finance her own old age where she lives now. That would be the route I'd take if it were me dealing with my mother in this situation. It's fair and reasonable, whether she agrees or not.
Don't back down and be cowed when you have your next conversation with your mother. You're not trying to be mean.......it's time to be independent and live alone with your son. That's the route to take; it's nothing personal, mother, it's just time to live apart. I will always love you, it's nothing at all to do with love.
Wishing you the best of luck taking your life back and putting yourself and your son first! It's OKAY to do that! You're not the bad guy, no matter what you're led to believe!
Also, a friend of mine has suggested I may have 'caregiver syndrom' - probably many people posting on this forum have this - ie poor awareness of our caregiving limits and when we give too much. I am finally waking up drained from being 'responsible' for her emotions and our co-dependency. It is a beautiful but brutal awakening.
Maybe posters here can share good resources to read up on how people feel when face retirement? Also the advice re social groups for mum is a helpful one, thank you. Also and importantly, rather than (as typical) me taking on solving mum's problems I should focus on me, my son, and what house keeping and child care strategy needs to be if mum is to live separate.