Old men who sex offend small children, not sure what to do?
My brother (89) just made sexual advances to a friends grandchild. I'm his POA and live across country from him and not sure what I can do about it. He is a veteran.
You definitely have a moral responsibility to report this to the local police, who will then contact Child Protective Services, and investigate the claim. In addition, there are states where it is REQUIRED by law to report any known instance of suspected child abuse. Kentucky, where your brother lives, is one of those states. This needs to be reported to the authorities immediately.
Just an addendum to my earlier post: we had a guy who lived in our neighborhood. He has suffered hydrocephalus from birth and was maybe, just a little slow, but a kind and sweet person. My mother and the other moms warned us constantly about the chance he would molest us. We were terrified of him.
The irony that he grew to be a fine, upstanding husband and father and my stupid brother was the neighborhood 'predator' is not lost on me.
Protect the kids. Please. Believe them and give them the help they need--which, honestly? is just being able to feel SAFE. I NEVER did until I married a BIG guy. Even after my marriage my brother continued his groping until my DH offered to beat him to a pulp.
NanJan in the light of what you have said about his history of offending, his mental function and his refusal to address his own behaviours, I don't see that you have any option but to involve the police. Write down an account of known facts and take it to them.
I can readily imagine that the little girl's parents won't want her subjected to any further upset, but there is more to this incident than her testimony alone and there are due processes to be observed.
I have a massive sympathy for victims and a nil sympathy for perpetrators. I think I still need to explain the complications, for OP, and perhaps for other posters. This offense (or an old offense) can’t be prosecuted unless there is evidence. So for this offense, the 7 year old victim and her parents and grandparents need to be willing for her to testify. Child witnesses are now much better treated than in the past, and are likely to be believed although it is only their word, but it still is a big decision to allow them to go through it.
My daughter, then age 20, asked for another younger child to be contacted by the police, because daughter had a feeling than perpetrator might be grooming her in the same way that had happened to herself, for several years before the actual major offenses, and since as he was still putting pressure on her (come with me for a special birthday dinner was the last straw). Perpetrator was a friend of her father’s and new partner’s, and I still find it hard to understand why daughter didn’t tell me earlier. Other child and her parents said nothing had happened. Of course perpetrator was grooming parents as well, lovely bloke, can’t believe it, etc etc. But they also said they would watch very carefully from now on. My daughter decided not to proceed with supporting the prosecution on her own. The police interviewed perpetrator several times, said his name would be kept on their own records permanently, and any other allegations would certainly be pursued – and with any luck they scared the life out of him. You can see that the ability to provide sufficient evidence to prosecute is another set of issues, besides the question of prosecuting a very old man for one possibly minor instance, with no evidence in court of a pattern of past behaviour.
The people involved in OP’s matter may take a different approach and support a prosecution. But if not, there still a need to think about how to avoid the bastard from taking another chance another time with another victim.
Like I said, the issues are really complicated, and the specialist units are likely to be experts in the best path to follow. OP, her family, the victim and the family of the victim have my total sympathy in a very difficult situation.
I am 76 y.o. and was abused by grandfather. Even at this age it still continues to be a problem for me. He, of course, is deceased. Nothing was ever done nor discussed regarding this problem with family. Mother knew but at that time it was a well kept secret. By all means, report him as this will not discontinue. Mine and my sister's went on for many years. He had four daughters and I am sure that I was not the first as all other granddaughters were never left alone with him. I am sure grandmother knew.
I am 76 y.o. and was abused by grandfather. Even at this age it still continues to be a problem for me. He, of course, is deceased. Nothing was ever done nor discussed regarding this problem with family. Mother knew but at that time it was a well kept secret. By all means, report him as this will not discontinue. Mine and my sister's went on for many years.
In many ways, the law hasn’t changed since my older daughter was abused (the crimes are still the same), but you are quite right that the approach to them has changed drastically. Old men are indeed being prosecuted for strings of historic offences, which is why I suggested that a prosecution (or a threat to prosecute) for an old offence might be the solution. One offence by a very old man, if minor, may not be prosecuted on its own. The experts will know, which is why I’d ask them for advice if I were in OP's shoes. It's more complicated than one might think.
MM, laws have changed since you were 7. Drastically! It used to be swept under the carpet, now it is prosecuted to the fullest when a child is involved.
It’s a difficult issue with no great outcome. It’s good that the child’s grandparents won’t let the opportunity arise again. ‘Sexual approaches’ covers a large range of behaviours, none of them acceptable but some of them not likely to produce a great deal of harm - like the flasher who exposed himself to me when I was a similar age. Getting an agency to force him into care isn’t going to be easy, and the outcome may also be bad – like my dreadful father who during a respite stay (unjustified), had repeated sex with a resident with dementia, on the basis that she couldn’t remember it afterwards to complain. Is there any way to ensure that children won’t visit – ‘difficult behaviors - no entry for children’ sign on the door, so long as he can’t remove it? Information spread in the family for anyone with children?
My own experience with this was that the specialist units in the police force or an appropriate agency are well aware of all the issues, and may be able to come up with a strategy that will be sufficient. Someone who goes in with high moral indignation and ‘a bull in a china shop’ approach, may make things even worse. On the other hand, perhaps prosecution for an older offence may be the only solution. Here the statute of limitations has be removed for old child abuse offences. Even threatening prosecution may shock his socks off and end his ‘lady’s man’ fantasies.
CPS needs to be called to protect the child, and other potential victims, from parents, grandparents and anyone that has knowledge of this that has not reported it and just wants it to go away!
Call the friend and tell the friend to file a report with the police. Your brother is a sex offender. Doesn't matter that he is a veteran. Are you looking to have him committed to a VA psych unit for being a sex offender?
Ssurprise, I agree with you that CPS should be called. Obviously nobody is concerned about what this pig has done to that child. The child needs someone to care because obviously the grandparents don't.
My parents would never see me or my kids again if they didn't respond by calling the law the moment they found out. To hell with the old pervert and what he is going to be facing. I recommend castration and removal of his hands for a good start.
I'm sorry to say that when an adult I knew was reported, it was to CPS to protect the child. I know too much about this to go on. Sure, call the police too as he does need prosecution on a criminal level as well.
Surprise, you don’t report adults to CPS. You report children. If this is an ongoing issue than the brother needs to be reported to the police. The police will contact CPS if necessary. CPS will not take a report on the brother. CPS deals with children not adults. CPS will not “take care of him”. The brother doesn’t even live in the same home as the child. It was a friends grandchild. It would be totally different if this child was a member of the household and this behavior was ongoing. It happened once, to a non member of the household and CPS is not the appropriate agency if you want something to actually happen here.
If this were me, I would call up child protective services in that county and make a report of my own brother and I would give the child's name, parents, and everyone else involved. The state getting involved is the VERY BEST thing that can happen for this child.
She will need a lot of counseling and she needs to have this recorded so she has something behind her if she ever does anything that needs to have evidence of sexual abuse in her past. Your brother should be financially responsible for her therapy and a legal report may allow her to have some kind of state funded help. Children first.
Anyone can report what they have heard or seen, not just the people involved. CPS needs to be in on this! Don't worry about your brother at all. CPS will certainly contact APS and get the ball rolling so he is able to move into a facility. Don't let that child be swept under the rug because no one wants to embarrass the old guy. He's a predator with a record of abuse and the public needs to be protected.
Your brother needs to be reported. It must be hard for you, but children need protection. The person who sexual abuses children, in my opinion are mentally disturbed to begin with, dementia or not!! Call the VA, and see if he can be placed. He obviously needs supervision.
Your brother needs to be in a secure facility. Period. End of story. Dementia or no, he is apparently a sexual predator and needs to be in custody where he can no longer be in contact with children.
If he was 'caught' sexually abusing ONE child. You can BET that wasn't his first.
With or w/o dementia. he cannot be allowed to continue on this path. As a sexual abuse survivor myself--my gosh, my parents KNEW this was going on and did NOTHING to stop it....b/c they felt like things like this didn't happen in families like ours!
Well---nobody advocated for me, so eventually I had to advocate for myself. I was dxed with PTSD and all the lovely s/e's of that. 24 years of therapy and counting and I am still not totally 'ok'.
My abuser was given a 'walk' b/c he was so intelligent and amazing and perfect and would NEVER do something like that. Duh, he was expelled from Medical School for gross sexual misconduct and never was accepted into any other program.
Once I came out about the abuse, the dams were opened. He abused possibly hundreds of people.
It's NOT Ok to give this person a pass b/c he's got some dementia. He simply can't be as wily as he used to be.
Just read your response. This is going to sound harsh, but your brother is a sexual predator. This has probably been happening for a long, long time. You can call, but I don't think the VA isn't going to be able to "help" him. They might *encourage* him to seek counseling, but I doubt it would work, because I doubt that he sees he's doing anything wrong. It's not "ok" that he does this sort of thing to adults, either, whether or not they can fight back. He is going to continue until he's stopped by law enforcement. And even then, I don't know that they will give jail time to an 89 year old man. But at least he can be made to register as a sex offender, which will give people he might come into contact with a warning about his behavior. If I were in your position, I would strongly, strongly encourage the child's family to report him to law enforcement, brother or no. He can't be allowed to continue this criminal behavior and then hide behind the "but I'm an old man" defense. If the family refuses, you might call the law enforcement agency that covers where he lives, but I don't know how much they will do based on your report, since you're not the victim. But at least then you know for yourself you did what you could. I'm so, so sorry you have to deal with this, what an awful position to have to be in.
Has he been diagnosed with dementia? Or does he have a history of abuse? If he has been diagnosed with dementia (or if he has not been "formerly" diagnosed at this time) often times that filter we have goes away. And normal boundaries are dropped. This is why you hear complaints of people urinating in places that they normally wouldn't, or walking into other's houses, stealing, swearing and things like that. Contact the VA they may be able to help. Depending on where and when he served he may qualify for a little bit of help or a LOT. He should be reported but if he is jailed or if he has to go to court he may not get the mental help that he needs, if he has dementia he needs a different type of help than he would get in jail and if released he needs supervision. If you can not handle this from across the country and if he is declared incompetent it might be best that either a closer family member handle this or you can request that he have a Court Appointed Guardian. If this happens you will not have anything to say any longer about his care or where he is placed.
Ok..just read your comment that he has been an abuser in the past. The question now is does he have dementia or is this just abuse? If he is of sound mind...he should be reported.
Sorry, but his "friends" should report him. For the child's sake, it should not be swept under the rug. She needs some counseling to make sure this does not come back to haunt her later in life.
Your brother should have been dealt with years ago. Anyone with children should have been warned of his behaviour. I would allow the State to take over his care. You are too far away to help him.
Thanks to all who responded. First he has a history of sexual abuse but didn’t come to light for many years. The girl was seven years old and her grandparents have been bathing, cooking, cleaning and making sure he is taking his meds etc. my brother has known the family for five generations so they trusted him. The child was left alone with him while they were outside doing things for him. They felt betrayed and will never help him again. He lives alone, can’t drive but still thinks he's a ladies man. He is in Kentucky and I’m in California, I’m not sure if I can get him any help from the veterans, I’m calling them on Monday. He refuses to go to a home and I can’t force him to do anything because he can still make his own decisions . I just don’t know what I can do to keep other children safe. The one good thing is he doesn’t get many visitors and very few children. He does the same thing to adults but an adult can defend themselves but not a child.
It’s nothing something CPS can give guidance on. It’s the adult that needs dealt with so APS would be more appropriate than CPS. No need to contact CPS unless the child’s family is allowing OPs brother to be around the child while making sexual advances.
I wonder if child protective services might be able to offer guidance. Does he have dementia? Where does he live? Maybe a VA home would be the best place for him.
First, how did you learn about this? From the grandparent or other relative of the intended child? How old is the child? Who were the actual observers/witnesses?
Before you take any action, make sure you can rely on this unsettling information. False charges would be disastrous.
Is there any history of this kind of behavior?
Second, is he getting any support or help from the VA, not necessarily psychological but medical? Do you know which VA? Have the names of any contacts? Which team is treating him? If so, you could contact the VA to find out what psychological and/or psychiatric programs might be available, but getting him to accept treatment could be another issue.
Third, did the friend advise of any action he/she took?
Fourth, I think it's a grey area what your obligations as proxy are, other than to inform law enforcement.
89 year old veteran in what sort of physical and mental state of health?
You're his POA - is he currently still able to act for himself, or are you already making decisions for him?
Of course anything to do with the sexual abuse of small children is a red rag to a bull when it comes to people's reactions; but what exactly has happened and who has told you about this? Are we talking about a long history of offences which has just come to light? Or a confused old man mistaking what he was doing? Where is your brother living, how did the child come into contact with him, what form of "sexual advance" and what was the impact on the child -
There are so many questions you need to clarify before you can decide whether there is anything you can usefully do to a) remedy the situation and b) ensure it does not recur.
Oh my, I'm so sorry you find yourself in this situation. I'm not sure if there's anything you can/need to do as his POA in regards to the sexual abuse allegation. Is he still competent? You're not legally responsible for his behavior. If he is still competent to make his own decisions, and you don't want to be involved with him because of this, you can resign your POA. Even if he's not competent, you can resign your POA, but my understanding is it's a little more complicated. Not to excuse the behavior, but if your brother has Alzheimer's, inappropriate sexual behavior is often a symptom. IF that's what's going on here, and you brother is under doctor's care, I would contact that doctor ASAP and talk to him/her about the situation. They might be able to give you some resources to guide you. Good luck!
The irony that he grew to be a fine, upstanding husband and father and my stupid brother was the neighborhood 'predator' is not lost on me.
Protect the kids. Please. Believe them and give them the help they need--which, honestly? is just being able to feel SAFE. I NEVER did until I married a BIG guy. Even after my marriage my brother continued his groping until my DH offered to beat him to a pulp.
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I can readily imagine that the little girl's parents won't want her subjected to any further upset, but there is more to this incident than her testimony alone and there are due processes to be observed.
My daughter, then age 20, asked for another younger child to be contacted by the police, because daughter had a feeling than perpetrator might be grooming her in the same way that had happened to herself, for several years before the actual major offenses, and since as he was still putting pressure on her (come with me for a special birthday dinner was the last straw). Perpetrator was a friend of her father’s and new partner’s, and I still find it hard to understand why daughter didn’t tell me earlier. Other child and her parents said nothing had happened. Of course perpetrator was grooming parents as well, lovely bloke, can’t believe it, etc etc. But they also said they would watch very carefully from now on. My daughter decided not to proceed with supporting the prosecution on her own. The police interviewed perpetrator several times, said his name would be kept on their own records permanently, and any other allegations would certainly be pursued – and with any luck they scared the life out of him. You can see that the ability to provide sufficient evidence to prosecute is another set of issues, besides the question of prosecuting a very old man for one possibly minor instance, with no evidence in court of a pattern of past behaviour.
The people involved in OP’s matter may take a different approach and support a prosecution. But if not, there still a need to think about how to avoid the bastard from taking another chance another time with another victim.
Like I said, the issues are really complicated, and the specialist units are likely to be experts in the best path to follow. OP, her family, the victim and the family of the victim have my total sympathy in a very difficult situation.
My own experience with this was that the specialist units in the police force or an appropriate agency are well aware of all the issues, and may be able to come up with a strategy that will be sufficient. Someone who goes in with high moral indignation and ‘a bull in a china shop’ approach, may make things even worse. On the other hand, perhaps prosecution for an older offence may be the only solution. Here the statute of limitations has be removed for old child abuse offences. Even threatening prosecution may shock his socks off and end his ‘lady’s man’ fantasies.
I’d ask the experts for advice.
My parents would never see me or my kids again if they didn't respond by calling the law the moment they found out. To hell with the old pervert and what he is going to be facing. I recommend castration and removal of his hands for a good start.
to a non member of the household and CPS is not the appropriate agency if you want something to actually happen here.
She will need a lot of counseling and she needs to have this recorded so she has something behind her if she ever does anything that needs to have evidence of sexual abuse in her past. Your brother should be financially responsible for her therapy and a legal report may allow her to have some kind of state funded help. Children first.
Anyone can report what they have heard or seen, not just the people involved. CPS needs to be in on this! Don't worry about your brother at all. CPS will certainly contact APS and get the ball rolling so he is able to move into a facility. Don't let that child be swept under the rug because no one wants to embarrass the old guy. He's a predator with a record of abuse and the public needs to be protected.
Who needs permission or prompting to turn a sexual predator in to the law. What in hell is wrong with people.
He deserves to be in prison and everyone that doesn't protect and defend his latest victim is as guilty as he is.
With or w/o dementia. he cannot be allowed to continue on this path. As a sexual abuse survivor myself--my gosh, my parents KNEW this was going on and did NOTHING to stop it....b/c they felt like things like this didn't happen in families like ours!
Well---nobody advocated for me, so eventually I had to advocate for myself. I was dxed with PTSD and all the lovely s/e's of that. 24 years of therapy and counting and I am still not totally 'ok'.
My abuser was given a 'walk' b/c he was so intelligent and amazing and perfect and would NEVER do something like that. Duh, he was expelled from Medical School for gross sexual misconduct and never was accepted into any other program.
Once I came out about the abuse, the dams were opened. He abused possibly hundreds of people.
It's NOT Ok to give this person a pass b/c he's got some dementia. He simply can't be as wily as he used to be.
You can call, but I don't think the VA isn't going to be able to "help" him. They might *encourage* him to seek counseling, but I doubt it would work, because I doubt that he sees he's doing anything wrong.
It's not "ok" that he does this sort of thing to adults, either, whether or not they can fight back. He is going to continue until he's stopped by law enforcement. And even then, I don't know that they will give jail time to an 89 year old man. But at least he can be made to register as a sex offender, which will give people he might come into contact with a warning about his behavior.
If I were in your position, I would strongly, strongly encourage the child's family to report him to law enforcement, brother or no. He can't be allowed to continue this criminal behavior and then hide behind the "but I'm an old man" defense. If the family refuses, you might call the law enforcement agency that covers where he lives, but I don't know how much they will do based on your report, since you're not the victim. But at least then you know for yourself you did what you could.
I'm so, so sorry you have to deal with this, what an awful position to have to be in.
If he has been diagnosed with dementia (or if he has not been "formerly" diagnosed at this time) often times that filter we have goes away. And normal boundaries are dropped. This is why you hear complaints of people urinating in places that they normally wouldn't, or walking into other's houses, stealing, swearing and things like that.
Contact the VA they may be able to help. Depending on where and when he served he may qualify for a little bit of help or a LOT.
He should be reported but if he is jailed or if he has to go to court he may not get the mental help that he needs, if he has dementia he needs a different type of help than he would get in jail and if released he needs supervision.
If you can not handle this from across the country and if he is declared incompetent it might be best that either a closer family member handle this or you can request that he have a Court Appointed Guardian. If this happens you will not have anything to say any longer about his care or where he is placed.
Ok..just read your comment that he has been an abuser in the past. The question now is does he have dementia or is this just abuse? If he is of sound mind...he should be reported.
Your brother should have been dealt with years ago. Anyone with children should have been warned of his behaviour. I would allow the State to take over his care. You are too far away to help him.
Before you take any action, make sure you can rely on this unsettling information. False charges would be disastrous.
Is there any history of this kind of behavior?
Second, is he getting any support or help from the VA, not necessarily psychological but medical? Do you know which VA? Have the names of any contacts? Which team is treating him? If so, you could contact the VA to find out what psychological and/or psychiatric programs might be available, but getting him to accept treatment could be another issue.
Third, did the friend advise of any action he/she took?
Fourth, I think it's a grey area what your obligations as proxy are, other than to inform law enforcement.
You're his POA - is he currently still able to act for himself, or are you already making decisions for him?
Of course anything to do with the sexual abuse of small children is a red rag to a bull when it comes to people's reactions; but what exactly has happened and who has told you about this? Are we talking about a long history of offences which has just come to light? Or a confused old man mistaking what he was doing? Where is your brother living, how did the child come into contact with him, what form of "sexual advance" and what was the impact on the child -
There are so many questions you need to clarify before you can decide whether there is anything you can usefully do to a) remedy the situation and b) ensure it does not recur.
I'm not sure if there's anything you can/need to do as his POA in regards to the sexual abuse allegation. Is he still competent? You're not legally responsible for his behavior. If he is still competent to make his own decisions, and you don't want to be involved with him because of this, you can resign your POA. Even if he's not competent, you can resign your POA, but my understanding is it's a little more complicated.
Not to excuse the behavior, but if your brother has Alzheimer's, inappropriate sexual behavior is often a symptom. IF that's what's going on here, and you brother is under doctor's care, I would contact that doctor ASAP and talk to him/her about the situation. They might be able to give you some resources to guide you.
Good luck!