The facility would not pursue any case they didn't think was winnable because in the end they have to pay the attorneys. The way a case is winnable is by having proof. The proof is that someone signed a contract, otherwise the facility wouldn't know who to contact.
Nursing homes don't "exploit" lack of knowledge. That's why they have a very detailed and painstakingly written contract. If the signer doesn't read it -- that's on them. They always have the option of taking it to an attorney for explanation if they don't understand what they're reading. That's what I have done on many occasions. Remember: ignorance is never a defense in court.
You can feel sorry for the people in the article all you want. But other than providing a legally solid contract for peope to read, understand and then sign if they agree to it -- I'm not sure what people expect the facilities to do. They aren't charities. They have to make a profit, which means they have to do more than break even.
People can certainly countersue if they never signed a contract or didn't "hide assets", but for all the others they will be on the hook legally to pay. It is perfectly acceptable to say that you will return to sign a contract after your attorney has reviewed it. I certainly wouldn't sit there and waste everyone's time reading a 150-page long legal document that I know I won't fully understand. Heck, our trust document is 90 pages long, and it's not "that complicated" as opposed to people with really complex estates. That's why most trusts have a provision to cover attorney fees to figure out the trust by the trustee.
So, facilities can't be criticized unless there is a realistic solution to their problem of payment for their services. As is with any business or corporation, the public doesn't get to decide "how much" is "enough" of a profit for them. Painting them all as "greediest of the greedy" is totally subjective and unproductive.
My MIL is in a faith-based, non-profit facility run by a large parent organization (the Presbyterian Church). I don't know who they do it, I can only assume they have endowments or benefectors or funds devoted by their "offspring" churches. Also, they probably don't have the salary demands at the top since they most likely have volunteer board members running it.
I can see why friends and family get hit. Have you looked up your name on the internet? It can show ur address, phone# and who ur related to. Then they take that relatives name and locate them. I can see a Spouse held responsible but no one else. Even if I was rich, why should I pay for my brothers medical/NH bills.
"The nursing home industry has quietly developed what consumer attorneys and patient advocates say is a pernicious strategy of pursuing family and friends of patients despite federal law that was enacted to protect them from debt collection."
I see a great potential for law firms to sue the firms and the nursing homes that are engaged in these activities. Watch for more commercials:
"Have YOU or your family been sued by a nursing home? Contact us for help!"
If the suits do not comply with the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, there are remedies against the perpetrators, if I remember correctly. However, I don't think the act is as strong in protecting potential debtors as it should be.
"Many were accused — often without documentation — of hiding residents' assets, essentially stealing. The remaining cases targeted residents themselves or their spouses."
This enters another touchy legal area: unfounded if not fictitious accusations. Potentially fraudulent allegations? I can also see plaintiff attorneys going after the firms that make these accusations. And I hope they do!
"In nearly a third, the nursing homes won default judgments because the defendants never responded, a common phenomenon in debt cases. In many cases, lawsuits sought interest rates as high as 18% on top of the debt."
It wouldn't surprise me if the nursing homes and their counsel are exploiting the lack of knowledge by the defendants, using the court rules to their benefit.
The big push by plaintiff firm(s) now is the issue of poisoned water at Camp LeJeune. I hope nursing home false accusations and harassment moves up into the tv commercial slot so folks can become aware of this egregious movement.
Nursing homes are the greediest, most disgusting money-grubbers in the world. They will blatantly lie and do anything to squeeze out every cent no matter if it's legal or not. Or even if it's owed or not. The bank on the fact that most families won't understand the complicated legal language that is designed to deceive them into signing away everything their LO has along with everything they have. It works all the time. When as POA I had to sign forms for my father to be admitted into the NH there was easily 150 pages. A Philadelphia lawyer couldn't get through all those forms sitting in some social worker's office in a NH. I told her that I would have to take the paperwork home for a few days to be able to read it all and understand it before signing. I was refused. I then suggested that she would have to schedule several appointments for me to come in person and read all the forms. I let a form get past me giving them permission that I did not agree on. I had to do a lot to get that reversed. NEVER allow a nursing home, rehab, or AL facility to have direct access to a bank account. Do not give them any banking information. Insist on a written bill every month, then pay your LO's bill with a cashier's check from the bank. The only person signing any forms is supposed to be the POA. The nursing home will try to coerce other family members to, don't do it. Only sign admitting forms that you've read thoroughly. Even the permission to treat forms have financial clauses mixed in. No way. I had the nursing home call me if my father needed to go to the hospital or get a new medication. I gave verbal permission, not written.
Excellent advice! Read the fine print. If it's too fine for you to understand or care to, hire an expert, they do this all day, every day. Although it's lawyers that are adding to the fine print, the reasons are often just as Geaton explained. Non-payment, financial burdens, State and Federal regulations, litigation, come to mind.
Thanks, Barb. I read it. It seems people signing paperwork when they are not the FPoA -- and don't read the contract -- is the chronic problem.
Moral of the story: if you are not someone's FPoA or legal guardian, NEVER sign admissions paperwork for someone else. If you are FPoA then make sure you know what the legal way is to sign for your charge, since it may differ by state. My husband signs for his Mom's checks and paperwork as "John Doe, as PoA for Mary Doe".
The article moans about paperwork being "multiple pages long". That's not new news. Has anyone ever signed a lease agreement for an apartment? Or a mortgage? People can ask for a copy of the contract in advance to be reviewed by an attorney they hire. This is a lot cheaper than a law suit.
The financial hit to facilities for non-payment is so much more now due to the costs of everything going up so much, especially the staffing overhead. Most of the time it is the largest expense for any business, and one that is difficult to control.
Nursing homes don't "exploit" lack of knowledge. That's why they have a very detailed and painstakingly written contract. If the signer doesn't read it -- that's on them. They always have the option of taking it to an attorney for explanation if they don't understand what they're reading. That's what I have done on many occasions. Remember: ignorance is never a defense in court.
You can feel sorry for the people in the article all you want. But other than providing a legally solid contract for peope to read, understand and then sign if they agree to it -- I'm not sure what people expect the facilities to do. They aren't charities. They have to make a profit, which means they have to do more than break even.
People can certainly countersue if they never signed a contract or didn't "hide assets", but for all the others they will be on the hook legally to pay. It is perfectly acceptable to say that you will return to sign a contract after your attorney has reviewed it. I certainly wouldn't sit there and waste everyone's time reading a 150-page long legal document that I know I won't fully understand. Heck, our trust document is 90 pages long, and it's not "that complicated" as opposed to people with really complex estates. That's why most trusts have a provision to cover attorney fees to figure out the trust by the trustee.
So, facilities can't be criticized unless there is a realistic solution to their problem of payment for their services. As is with any business or corporation, the public doesn't get to decide "how much" is "enough" of a profit for them. Painting them all as "greediest of the greedy" is totally subjective and unproductive.
My MIL is in a faith-based, non-profit facility run by a large parent organization (the Presbyterian Church). I don't know who they do it, I can only assume they have endowments or benefectors or funds devoted by their "offspring" churches. Also, they probably don't have the salary demands at the top since they most likely have volunteer board members running it.
ADVERTISEMENT
"The nursing home industry has quietly developed what consumer attorneys and patient advocates say is a pernicious strategy of pursuing family and friends of patients despite federal law that was enacted to protect them from debt collection."
I see a great potential for law firms to sue the firms and the nursing homes that are engaged in these activities. Watch for more commercials:
"Have YOU or your family been sued by a nursing home? Contact us for help!"
If the suits do not comply with the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, there are remedies against the perpetrators, if I remember correctly. However, I don't think the act is as strong in protecting potential debtors as it should be.
"Many were accused — often without documentation — of hiding residents' assets, essentially stealing. The remaining cases targeted residents themselves or their spouses."
This enters another touchy legal area: unfounded if not fictitious accusations. Potentially fraudulent allegations? I can also see plaintiff attorneys going after the firms that make these accusations. And I hope they do!
"In nearly a third, the nursing homes won default judgments because the defendants never responded, a common phenomenon in debt cases. In many cases, lawsuits sought interest rates as high as 18% on top of the debt."
It wouldn't surprise me if the nursing homes and their counsel are exploiting the lack of knowledge by the defendants, using the court rules to their benefit.
The big push by plaintiff firm(s) now is the issue of poisoned water at Camp LeJeune. I hope nursing home false accusations and harassment moves up into the tv commercial slot so folks can become aware of this egregious movement.
Barb, thanks so much for sharing.
The bank on the fact that most families won't understand the complicated legal language that is designed to deceive them into signing away everything their LO has along with everything they have. It works all the time.
When as POA I had to sign forms for my father to be admitted into the NH there was easily 150 pages. A Philadelphia lawyer couldn't get through all those forms sitting in some social worker's office in a NH.
I told her that I would have to take the paperwork home for a few days to be able to read it all and understand it before signing. I was refused. I then suggested that she would have to schedule several appointments for me to come in person and read all the forms.
I let a form get past me giving them permission that I did not agree on. I had to do a lot to get that reversed.
NEVER allow a nursing home, rehab, or AL facility to have direct access to a bank account. Do not give them any banking information. Insist on a written bill every month, then pay your LO's bill with a cashier's check from the bank.
The only person signing any forms is supposed to be the POA. The nursing home will try to coerce other family members to, don't do it.
Only sign admitting forms that you've read thoroughly. Even the permission to treat forms have financial clauses mixed in. No way. I had the nursing home call me if my father needed to go to the hospital or get a new medication. I gave verbal permission, not written.
Although it's lawyers that are adding to the fine print, the reasons are often just as Geaton explained. Non-payment, financial burdens, State and Federal regulations, litigation, come to mind.
Moral of the story: if you are not someone's FPoA or legal guardian, NEVER sign admissions paperwork for someone else. If you are FPoA then make sure you know what the legal way is to sign for your charge, since it may differ by state. My husband signs for his Mom's checks and paperwork as "John Doe, as PoA for Mary Doe".
The article moans about paperwork being "multiple pages long". That's not new news. Has anyone ever signed a lease agreement for an apartment? Or a mortgage? People can ask for a copy of the contract in advance to be reviewed by an attorney they hire. This is a lot cheaper than a law suit.
The financial hit to facilities for non-payment is so much more now due to the costs of everything going up so much, especially the staffing overhead. Most of the time it is the largest expense for any business, and one that is difficult to control.
Caveat emptor. It never stops being a thing.