Less of a question more of me venting, seeking validation.

Basic, of course your wife and mil are happier. They are getting concierge service while paying zero. If your wife emotes suicidality over the thought of her mom trading concierge for Medicaid covered services, is that the end of the marital counseling because she claims to be that fragile?

Basic, I once taught nursery school for 3 years out of economic necessity. It drove me to drink. Literally.

Just because your wife was not successful as a teacher is not a reason for her or anyone else to think that she wouldn't be a wonderful speech therapist, computer programmer or secretary. Or literally anything

Has she ever had any vocational counseling? Read What Color is My Parachute"?

Nah, she seemed fairly well adjusted. Just sh*t hit the fan and she could not cope. Which is understandable, she has had a rough time even prior to her mom getting sick.

I do, I am neurodivergent, so I have my care team. Though overall as my therapist has told me many times during our sessions I am extremely self aware often just boils down to a conflict between logic and emotion.

As my therapist has told me I cannot expect my wife to process grief, pain, stress as easily as I do because it clearly sticks with her. She is not able to quickly assess why at the core she is feeling the way she is and come up with a solution to stop feeling that way. Most brains are not capable of simply accepting the emotion and calling it a day.

Which creates conflict more me since for my wife emotion takes over logic goes out the window though my therapist has told me that normal to a degree. I am 100% aware or everything I am doing is not what my wife needs, but my emotional side does take over.

As I told my therapist that evening she took the pills I felt things I never felt before nor ever want to feel. Those feelings are fueling what I do when it comes to things like her working. I can find compromise that works for her MIL that meets all the requirements that maintains the happiness for both.

Pushing the work issue can really only go two ways, she overcomes it, or she breaks down.

As I told my therapist that is not gamble i am willing to make. If she overcomes her issues with her own therapist awesome. I will not push it though.

Edit: we are working on how I put others before myself. This has been something I have dealt with since I was a kid. Would always apologize as an example.

Basic, did you know how mentally ill/fragile/unsuited to real life your wife was when you married her?

Is her mother's presence a security blanket for her?

Do YOU have you own therapist?

My wife does have her own therapist, this was just our marriage counseling. I think they used that verbiage because she was present and one has trend carefully because depending on the response it could easily trigger a negative response.

What happens with her therapist one on one I have no idea. The comment regarding life I do not think is around ending life, more so the ins and outs of being an adult. Work life balance is not an easy nut to crack especially in fields that deal with real people.

Just how I viewed it.

Just catching up, two thoughts…MidKid’s reply to you was excellent. No one sets out to be a cautionary tale, it happens in bits and before you know it, it’s become your life, sadly. Next, the therapist your wife saw sounds like a moron. Who sits back and says some people can’t handle life after hearing talk of suicide? Just idiotic. Please never see this person again and find competent care. Okay, one more thought, please decide that you don’t need to feel bad or apologize for wanting life to improve

...and one other thing, what kind of therapist would hear their patient say, on several occasions, that if it weren't for their husband, they would be dead right now - and the therapist just supports/backs up that comment by agreeing that "some people just can't handle life?" Something is wrong with this picture. Any competent therapist wouldn't just go along with that kind of verbiage - but rather that's a really big red-flag - and, if anything, the therapist should have recommended your wife seek individual counselling several times a week - rather than just validating her mindset, so your wife can continue as such.

Hi Basic - I just read your stating that "in therapy, your wife has stated a few times if it was not for you, she probably would be dead right now and would have taken her own life because the weight of life is just too much to handle for some." That's a really serious comment. Is she still in therapy?

You said that you're both going back to marriage counselling - but aside from that, I think your wife also needs her own individual counselling/therapist...because it's a heavy burden for any spouse to carry the other person's life on their shoulders - or fear that they'll end their life. If she cannot handle life, then she requires serious ongoing therapy to learn coping skills and work thru whatever her inner-conflicts are - so she can become emotionally stronger and independent. Otherwise, you're going to continue the pattern of co-dependence and that's not healthy.

@Peggy I cannot say it was an attempt at her life per-se more so a call for help. If she really wanted to take her life she could have done so fairly easily without me knowing.

Thankfully she took such an action when I was home. So yeah I am careful not to push too hard because if something happened to her I would not be able to live with myself.

I do understand where you are coming from and tbh I am not certain, though during that time in therapy she has stated a few times if it was not for me she probably would be dead right now. So possibly she would have taken her own life because the weight of life is just too much to handle for some as our therapist has told us. Some people just cannot handle it.

My heart goes out to you. There's alot on your plate and I'm not sure what I would do. All I can offer are prayers and hugs

Basic,

The very first thing that I want to say to you is that I am so very sorry that you are in this situation. Truly, I am.

Good for you to question your situation. I don’t care what your original intentions were with your wife were regarding your MIL. Life happens and things change. Change is the one constant in our lives.

I feel your pain more than you can imagine. I cared for my mom long before she ever moved in with us. I admit that I was naive in not realizing what I had gotten myself into.

I regret so many decisions that I made in my life. So, some things couldn’t be avoided like a major storm (hurricane Katrina) destroying my mother’s home beyond repair. She was instantly homeless.

The entire city of New Orleans was in shock and struggling to cope. At this point in time, all that I could think of was comforting my mother. So, I invited her to live with us. I wish I had known to only make this a temporary solution.

I actually felt like it would be easier if she moved in with us because I was going to her house so often anyway. Mom adored my children and they loved her. I was still working when she first moved in. She could be left alone at this point.

She couldn’t drive due to seizures and Parkinson’s disease. Initially, it wasn’t so bad. The problem arises as time moves forward and everything become more challenging.

I commend you for recognizing what may lie ahead for you. I didn’t know what I didn’t know. I was a frazzled mess by the end of my 14 year stint of caregiving! I ended up in therapy.

My husband supported my decision for mom to move in with us but at times he certainly felt stressed out about our situation and rightfully so! I regret horribly placing my husband in this position.

It was a huge mistake for me to quit my job. I loved working and when I quit I sunk into depression.

I had anxiety over my mother’s health and how as a family we weren’t coping very well. I missed out on certain activities with my children and husband. It was awful and if I could go back I would not do it again.

I don’t even think my mom would do it the same way. There were times when she cried about us changing our lives to care for her. She hated being a burden on us. In retrospect, I feel as if I encouraged her to be dependent upon us.

I am glad that you are going to counseling with your wife. Please be completely honest and explain that you meant what you said about caring for your MIL but after careful consideration it isn’t something that you are able to follow through with.

I hope your wife will understand and appreciate what you have done for her mom and will see your point of view. A marriage consists of two people. I was in my 40’s when I started caring for my parents. I can’t imagine doing it as young as you and your wife are.

My mom lived to be 95! People are living longer these days.

Best wishes to you and your wife.

Basic,

Kudos on going back to marriage counseling.

In your latest reference on her taking pills, are you referencing that she tried to commit suicide? And that your outlook is that encouraging her to work at ANYTHING might trigger such?

Lets say she never met you. Would there have been an pill taking attempt knowing that she was the only resource to advocate for her demented mom? In a scenario where it was all on her to work for her survival, would she have?

Basic, realizing self agency and self responsibility go hand in hand. You should not protect her from realizing in her 20s that yes, work inherently sucks in some ways no matter what you do. So do responsibilities in general.

@basictakes99:
Now, this is what I meant by "manning-up". Good for you, coming up with a reasonable plan, seeking professional support to help your wife get on board, making use of all resources available to you.
Welcome to adulthood!

Sorry for the late replies. I first spoke with my mentor at work since he went through something similar his mother had a TBI he took a different path he let her become a ward of the state. After speaking with him and listening to his regret but also his warnings. I have spoken with my wife to go back to marriage counseling.

We did go in the past to try and come up with a solution regarding her depression and work. When unfortunately at the time it really was not working and she took some pills. Since then I have noticed I have been shielding my wife from everything cause that was a hard day for me.

During the therapy sessions I will be bringing up how even if we can afford it now we need to think about the future. I will admit placement is not nesscary, and maybe it may never be. I spoke with someone from the area of aging, and the wavier program Barb mentioned can be used for inhome care when needed, also was informed it is possible to get MTLC to cover home care hours if the doctor and document a medical need through tye fair hearing progress.

My compromise will be I am willing to supplement care for her mother but not be the sole source. If Medcaid only grants 8 hours and adult day service I will cover the rest. I will be firm she needs to be on Medicaid and she needs to use it.

I will not push the work issue cause I personally rather see her as she is now then her going back to the shell of a person she was when she was working.

All she did was get up, get ready, go to work, come home, eat, then go to sleep. She simply could not regulate work and life. Getting her to do fun things was like pulling teeth. Teaching nearly destroyed her.

HRA was helpful regarding getting the voucher information and also information regarding MLTC. I have faith that explaining it this way will open her eyes. It is not about placement it is more so not being the only one Flippin the bill. The entitlements exists why should we not use them.

I'm trying my best to not beat myself up.

Barb, he should do EVERYTHING to not have children with this woman at this time.

Should they also fogo having kids? That's a serious question.

Why should he not take advantage of using Medicaid as payment for his MIL's aides when the time comes that she needs more than the assistance she does now?

We all know that dementia is progressive, often in very unpredictable ways.

What is the upper limit on his financial obligation? 10k per month? 20k?

Basic, I almost always advise not to pay for parent's care, but after thinking about it some more, I believe in your situation your best choice may be to continue on paying to take care of MIL. My reasons? You are young, you earn and are expected to continue to earn much more money that average, and you seemingly can well afford to do what you are doing. Given those factors, it may be best for your marriage and maybe your conscience to sacrifice to give MIL the best care possible.

Basic, I don’t think it’s about you wanting a new ferrari. See, you KNOW something is wrong, but you have mistakenly redirected the wrong on you.

Dude, you need to see this objectively.

You are not only paying for mil to be catered to privately to the tune of 60k a year, but you’re shielding your wife from learning to see herself as an independent adult, same as you yourself are.

And part of that is making a good faith effort in a marriage. Your wife’s business interest sounds like a hobby, not paying work or ever gonna be. Being responsible would be taking on such work on at least part time. Work is inherently depressing at times. Lots of people need meds to deal with work, which is just part of being an adult.

Basic, I don't think you should feel bad (or be made to feel bad, selfish or childish) to want to have a life, spend your money as you want to, have children and have your young wife's attention.

You are getting sold a bill of goods here and you need to stand up for what you want out of life.

$5k per month (and it will increase to 25k per month in today's dollars when she needs 24/7 care) is unsustainable and idiotic when she can get aides through Medicaid.

I think the gloves need to come off and a real discussion had. I hope you are cautioned by MidKid's post.

It was a vague we will take care of your mom. I did not think to try and define it. Prior to this she was in the picture of health everything was in healthy ranges. Sadly, we due not think of this ever happening they have no know family history.

Guess you can say it was a promise made solely out of ignorance. All with the best intentions without fully thinking what it really meant.

My mindset was by the time her mom needed care we would be will into our 50's at that point I figured I would have established my own engineering firm, various rental properties and investments that in truth giving up time / money would not be so bad.

Basic, I'm curious what you agreed to when you got married?

Having your mil live with you from the start?

Paying her living and medical expenses?

Or something more vague like "we'll always take care of mom"?.

In one of your comments down the lne you state "I know this can't go on forever".

Um,

Define 'forever'? My Mil has spent the last 71 years sucking the life out of my DH. She is now doing it with so much more in the way of demands and anger.

It's be 47 years of this for us. Sure feels like forever. It's been 'forever' of our marriage.

She doesn't live with us, though at some points. Dh thought that would have been 'great'.

At this point in time, when we should be enjoying retirement, grandkids, all that stuff--my DH is spending 1/3 of his life babysitting his mom. Literally. We can't go anywhere or really plan beyond tomorrow b/c he won't leave her. Also, I do not feel like we have to 'run away' to have some peace and private time.

And I DON'T say 'it can't go on forever' b/c I am feeling like he is going to die before he (and his sibs) do.

You are carrying a huge burden with no end in sight. You SHOULD NOT be paying for MIL's care at all.


Sorry to be blunt, but we started out like you did--just didn't have MIL in our home. She was always a fly in the ointment. Now she's in her 90's and so impossible to work with.

Trust me, you are NOT SCUM. You have a right to a life and it shouldn't come as an afterthought. This situation will weigh you down until you are drowning.

Some marriage counseling wouldn't be a bad idea. Perhaps your DW has no idea you are feeling resentful. I'm VERY angry with my DH and the amount of time and money he spends on his mom to keep the peace. It's ridiculous.

I wish you all the luck in the world. You are being amazing and nobody is telling you that.

((Hugs)) This is HARD, I know.

You're 27 now? So since you were 24?

I married for the first time at 21, he was 22.

Looking back, a HUGE mistake for us both; we were still adolescents.

She has been with us for three years. Since around COVID.

Basic, has your MiL lived with you from the very beginning of your marriage?

If not, how long after did she move in?

You feel bad because you didn't know caring for MiL was going to get in the way of having kids and building a life together with your wife.

It sounds like she takes care of mom and you take care of everything else.

Which is not a marriage.

Basic, again I reiterate that you are not being the unreasonable party here.

Your wife is.

She literally got to quit her real job for mental reasons so she could supposedly “work on” selling baked goods over the Internet while moving in mil…and YOU pay caregivers, adult day care so that Wife minimizes her own hands on.

If your wife feels so strongly about the mom living there, then she should be getting a paycheck that goes toward the 5k a month. It’s the principle of the thing as in she’s paying zero while imposing on him.

I feel this way because I married my wife knowing her stance, and instead of just being 100% supportive I am having a change of heart because I just do not see an end in sight and it is scary. Best way I can put it.

I feel bad cause at moments I feel bad and wish we had a normal life and could do normal things. That is why I use the term man child cause I legit only feel this way cause this aspect of being an adult has proven to be too much for me to handle for no other reason because I don't want to me coin purse and rather spend our excess income in other ways I find more fun or productive. Ignoring how how my wife feels or what she is going through.

You have used this expression "man child" a few times in this and the other thread.

Why do you feel it's "childish" to be concerned about your future financial health? Why do you feel it's "childish" to want to be first in your marriage? To want to be able to use some of your hard-earned money to go on vacation, or buy "fun things"? That you are concerned that this situation is untenable in the long term?

Those aren't the thoughts of a child. They are the concerns of a responsible adult.

Why do you continue to beat yourself up over your very legitimate concerns?

What makes you the "bad guy" in this scenario?

As long as you keep yourself at the bottom of this family dynamics totem pole, that's where you will remain, because there will be no need for anyone to change. Because they're getting what they believe they need.

You can vent all you like, that's fine. But venting will not solve these very real concerns and problems is all I'm trying to say.

Mainly because how I feel largely boils down to me being a man child at this point and time. I have also tried to explain the need to plan for the future regarding her mother but that has also fallen on deaf ears. I get it she is not ready to accept her mother will not be getting better.

I get it though, either way venting does help. Getting it off my chest that I no longer feel exactly the way I did was nice. Venting how I feel like crap for my change of heart was also nice.

At the core I know this is cannot he a forever thing.