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vstefens I think we have a lot of side effect ignorance
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This is my sad story 😞
My 89 year old mother passed away on June 5, 2015. It started out that my mother was rushed to the hospital due to a low Hemoglobin count. While in the hospital she was given 3 pints of blood & a cat sca which showed a mass on her rectum as well as spots on her liver. The doctors wanted my mom to have a colonoscopy but I was against it due to her weakened state as well as her age. The doctors kept pushing us to let my mom
have this procedure and it caused a lot of friction within my family due to difference of opinions. Finally a doctor who handles hospice cases told us that there was no need for my mom to go through with the colonoscopy because she probably wouldn't make it through the cleansing part of the procedure. Meanwhile, while my mother was in the hospital they gave her 5 mg of morphine without our permission even though we asked that they not give morphine to my mother. After that she could no longer walk and her health deteriorated. The doctors then started pushing us to put my mother on home hospice care. We wanted her to have palliative care but for some reason they kept trying to push hospice care for my mother. They even sent a hospice care specialist to our home although we asked for palliative care. The person they sent had very little knowledge of palliative care. Also, my mother was always prescribed Tylenol with Codeine for her pain with back-up of the Fentanyl pain patch. Due to severe itching, my mother had to stop using the pain patch and the RN then told us to use Oxycodone and also Ativan because my mother showed signs of agitation. My mother went from being alert & eating to almost comatose & not eating at all. We watched her slowly die due to the many Oxycodone that we were told to give to her. At first they prescribed 1 five mg Oxycodone every 4 hours and then they prescribed 2 five mg Oxycodone every 2 hours along with an Ativan. We truly believe that our mother died due to an overdose of Oxycodone & Ativan. Her breathing became very labored after using the combination of the drugs and she was never the same. I'm sharing this story with everyone because I believe that Hospice Care is becoming more & more dangerous for the elderly. I believe they push death via Hospice Care and they try to drug the hospice patient as much as possible in belief that death is better than pain. Why not treat the patient to possibly take away the pain as opposed to masking it with heavy-duty drugs? I want to do something about this so that no other person will go though the pain that we are going through because we think that more treatment could have been given to our mother. I have created a Facebook page titled "Hospice=Death? I want people to post their stories there and we are going to try to get the FDA, Congress, etc. to take a look at these cases and develop a law against over-drugging an ill & elderly person. We must take a stand against this because this seems inhumane. Please help us with our quest to look out for the sick & elderly and stop Hospice Care from pushing death on the elderly by giving them deadly combinations of hard-core drugs and find a more peaceful & dignified way for our loved ones to go through their journey. Thank you!!
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DarLove, it is so sad when you are not prepared for the death of a parent. If your mom had a mass at her rectum AND spots on her liver, her low hemoglobin was because she was bleeding to death from her cancers. 3 units of blood is a ton - little old ladies only have about 5 in their whole body! My mthr had the same type thing happen with low Hg, but the cancer had not spread, and she only needed one unit in emergency transfusion.

I'm afraid your mother was already on death's doorstep when she went to the hospital and they merely propped her up medically. She had probably been in a lot of pain for a very long time, as my mthr had been, but not admitting it to anyone because of her embarrassment. The morphine likely gave her the first comfort she'd had in years. I hope my mthr's death is as peaceful as yours was. Palliative care seeks to eliminate discomfort, and serious cancer is a painful state. From the patient's perspective, it sounds like she had a good death.
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DarLove, I am so sorry you lost your mother. Hospice care is palliative care. What surprise wrote is what I was thinking. It may be that in easing your mother's pain that she was able to quit fighting it and find her way to the other side. If this is so, then the pain relievers were a blessing to her. Life can become too painful to carry on. I know you miss her, but I know she left part of her spirit with you.
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Thank you so much Surprise & JessieBelle! I welcome comments such as yours so that I can have a better understanding of why my mother died. They never took a biopsy to confirm her type of cancer so I guess I am feeling so guilty that I am trying to find an excuse for her death? I watched her take her last breath & she looked at us as if she wanted us to rescue her. I am going to live with the memory of that look on her face. I feel like there could have been something else that could have been done to assist her with a peaceful ending. Does anyone know why her legs were painful to the touch? She literally screamed each time we tried to move her legs while giving her a bath. I always thought that she would have a peaceful non-suffering death but it sure didn't turn out that way and I am feeling so heart broken & hurt about that. Not sure if I will ever get over this 😭
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I feel as if life is no longer worth living.
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Death is hard to go through and hard to watch, DarLove. I can tell you loved your mother and you wanted her to feel better. It sounds like she had cancer that was causing much damage and pain to her. It wasn't anything that you did and it wasn't the drugs. You did everything right to help her on her final days. Some people go through pain whenever they leave the world. I wish everyone could have a peaceful, pain free death, but we don't have much control over that beyond trying to help ease the pain.

It has just been four days since you went through the trauma of watching your mother's death. No one can prepare us for watching our loved ones die. It is a helpless feeling, because each person has to cross over on their own. I do find comfort knowing that they wait for us on the other side and that they are living their lives free from the worry and pain that they had here.

Nothing was your fault or anyone's fault around you. It was the sickness that let your mother know that her time on earth was finished. I hope that soon the trauma and hurt you are feeling will fade and you will remember the happier days with your mother. It will take time to heal. Be good to yourself these next few days. We know what you are going through. Grief hurts, but it shows how devoted your heart is to the people you love.
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With advanced liver cancer as you described (multiple spots), I would expect that your mother had swollen legs, just from the little I know about liver and kidney function. The fluid build up as well as the toxins which would build up in the blood would make moving the skin very painful. There is less circulation of blood in the legs when a person is not walking around, so there would be toxin build up there pretty early compared to other areas.The rectal tumor had to be very painful, and the pain drugs may have her inhibitions about showing pain when she was shifted.

Your mama lived a good long life. She did not want you to rescue her at the end, she wanted to shield you from the pain of her passing. She loved you and knew how hard you would take this. Go out and have a good life for her sake if not for your own. You know that is why she hid her pain, so you all would not worry about her. I imagine she said that a lot.

Would she want you to go help people who have lost a loved one? Hospice needs volunteers to visit with patients who are dying and with their families. Would you have a special talent you could share, like singing? These things bring comfort to people who are in hospice and who know the end is near. This is a way you can do something for your mama even now. ((Hugs))
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Thanks for the hug surprise. Grief is very hard on its own to deal with but I managed to get through it before, although it was very difficult. Some very special people in my life lost their life to old age and other natural causes and my dad lost his battle to cancer.Yes grief from natural losses is very difficult, but this is the first time that someone I loved lost their battle to a medical staff. Having people taken before they are ready to go is just wrong, even if they are dying such as in Darloves case.She did everything that she could do and has to realize that it was not her fault what happened.If she is like me no matter how many people tell you to not feel guilty it does not penetrate. Darloves, one day I hope these problems will be solved so families will not have to suffer the way we have to suffer now.We need to fight hard for this. I hope euthanasia will not be allowed to happen. I hope that one day medical staff will not be allowed to get away with this and have it swept under the table like what is happening today. It is just not right and so unfair. No one has the right to cut a life short.There are other ways to deal with pain and anxiety that will not kill a person. My mom was not in pain nor was she needing powerful deadly sedatives. She just came in for a minor elective surgery to help her, not to kill her.She would have never thought that or wanted to have her life taken as she did. I till this day feel so much guilt and pain over the fact that medical staff who are supposed to help people are taking lives instead.I have suffered from ptsd etc from this horrible trauma and tried emdr treatment and talking therapy but the psychologist basically said because this case has no closure it is like an open wound, so this treatment does not always work for people like this.Something needs to be done to stop this from happening and then maybe people can begin to heal from these atrocities.
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JessieBell What would you say for the ones that did not have any pain and worry yet they have to pass over for what reason just because they were elder. It is getting so bad that elders who are healthy are losing their lives to these kind of medical staff. This has seriously got to stop.
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Darlove, that's a sad story indeed and I am sorry for your loss! The conflict over the colonoscopy only made things harder, but if they were right about her not even tolerating that, her chances of tolerating surgery and/or chemo for the presumed cancer were even less. Its true that you and some others in the family might have felt better about it if you had "tried everything" rather than gone to hospice, but guessing from your point of view or mine will never really answer whether that would have been better or worse for your mom. It really could have gone either way. You decided what you decided based on what your heart thought was best. I went through a lot of second guessing about the things we decided too, before eventually feeling a little peace about it all, and people on here helped me with that.

Grief does leave you feeling like you can't go on sometimes, that is totally normal. But if you find you are having thoughts of harming yourself or *really* not being able to go on, call a hotline, and if it is just really getting hairy for you to cope, seriously see if you can find at least a grief support group for yourself. We all need those chances to "debrief" and they can be hard to come by.
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How is your grandmother doing? Our experience with hospice was very strange, and cannot be fully understood. If she knows what's going on, eating, drinking, sounds like she could stick around for many years. Is she still on hospice or was their service revoked? Curious, who initiated the hospice care?
Thank you for replying. Cassestar
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There is so much pain on this thread and it's good we're all getting our experiences out here.

Flowgo, I meant you no disrespect. Perhaps I'm projecting because I could use some counseling myself from dealing with my dad's death and the resultant issues in dealing with my mother who is a classic narcissist. It does do a number on your head.

I really do wish you the best outcome possible for you in a horrible situation. Yes, I do believe there are evil people out there. I am sorry you had to experience that. I feel even more fortunate that we had the experience we had with my dad with hospice. Each individual, each family, each illness is different. Also the quality of the education about the dying process varies from each hospice. It's apparent that some of them aren't doing their job about educating people. I'd NEVER advocate euthanasia. It goes against my morals totally. My father's dying process with brain cancer was so apparent, it came down to comfort care. That is why I am so thankful for them. I couldn't have handled his violent, AWFUL whole body seizures on my own. The Ativan and morphine calmed his horrible pain and anxiety. I wouldn't wish my worst enemy to travel that road alone.

You are correct. Be vigilant every step of the way with your loved one. My brother and I tag teamed with my dad and were there 24/7. It was grueling, but it was worth it. He died exactly 5 minutes after my brother left . He always said he wanted to die alone when he could still talk and my brother wouldn't honor that. Of course my brother was living in Europe for 30 years prior visiting every few years. Those 30 years were all on me and still are with mom.

So yeah, I know a little about dying a horrible death and elderly care and hospice. And I'm still doing it.

Once again, I'm sorry your experience with the doctors and hospice was really horrible. People need to be really careful in their choices for their loved ones. Usually it's a crisis situation and no one is prepared for the questions that need to be asked. It's called being human and not knowing everything, not being a medical professional and we need to forgive ourselves for all that happens so fast during that time.

I wish you all peace and healing. Cry a river of tears, I know I did, and time will help it hurt a little less.
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Surely a discussion is a two way thing, negative and positive opinion? The thread title has a question mark at the end of it which would suggest to me it isn’t actually a free for all where hospice bashing is concerned. If you’re going to enter in to discussion with others you have to accept they may hold a different opinion to yours. Can’t quite believe people seem to be actually arguing on a thread of this nature given that most who contribute are likely to have lost someone who mattered to them. You’d hope there would be some kind of unity in grief, clearly not.

By the way suggesting counselling at times of bereavement is not questioning another’s sanity. It means something completely different.

It is quite clear some feel very strongly that their loved one was wronged in some way. I totally support their right to voice their concerns. I would and have offered up a different slant on what that might be, how that might come about because having recently experienced the loss of a loved one under Hospice care I think I can pass comment. Some however are suggesting their loved ones were murdered ‘if I understand them correctly’ which is obviously shocking. If that was the case you must of course bring it to other peoples attentions but not stop here. If I believed for one second that was the case with my father I would do everything in my power to seek justice because if that is what has happened then that is what you deserve, justice.

You have my deepest sympathy and I appreciate you sharing your difficult story but I think you really should be speaking to the police.
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My grandmother is home and much more happy. She is eating, drinking, talking and the same grandma she was before this mess. She was on home health for the longest time and how she ended up on Hospice I have no idea but we are not doing that again.
Thanks for asking
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gully81, So glad there is a good ending here.
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gully81 I'm so glad that you were able to get her out of hospice cause they can take a perfectly fine person who is not terminal and make them terminal with the drugs that they give.
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The only good thing about hospice now days is to stay away from it, cause if your not dead or dying you will be if you get into hospice.
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Hospice for my mother who passed 2 weeks ago today was so very wonderful kind and loving towards my mother and I. Everything imaginable to keep mom comfortable was supplied to us. Not only the meds, but a hospital bed, depends, gloves, lotions, dressing for the pressure sore she developed, special wound care nurse, her own nurse 3 times a week, baths 2 x's a week, massages and musical therapy.... If we needed we got it. Plus, her wonderful nurse was by our side while mom passes.

Yes, I had a fridge full of drugs but she didn't have to take the unless I felt she needed comfort meds, which I hardly felt... the last week I really started giving her a little.... no, Hospice was a Godsend to both of us. Maybe having Hospice at home with your loved one is easier since you get to monitor/give the meds yourself?

Sorry how it turned out for you :(
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Bry1969 The police will tell you to go to the medical board who is there to protect the doctors.The system is designed to protect medical workers. Where is the patient protection. Actually no where in site. As I said in another post, I researched why doctors and staff would kill patients and read about doctors and staff who were serial killers in the news. It often took years for them to be caught.They will only get caught if they continue the killing spree and never let up, only then would it make it easier to catch them. So if it is that hard to catch medical serial killers. It will be really hard to catch a killer who is not a serial killer. If there is any suspicion that a medical staff is murdering patients the hospital will just let them go, lay them off or the evil doctor nurse will decide to move on. I found out when a complaint is made with dept of health they will talk to one or two people who work there only one time and not continue to keep an eye on them anymore then that one time check. As soon as they are done talking to a person or two at the hospital then the medical staff are free to do as the please again. If evil medical staff are concerned that somehow they may be caught then they can move to another hospital or nursing home.There are doctors and medical staff who kill and never get caught cause the investigators etc don't want to bother with it since it could have been a mercy killing or euthanasia which is considered murder but somehow it seems to be swept under the table as long as it does not happen to much. That is why serial killers move on to prevent getting caught. Most medical facilities do not do much of a background check especially nursing homes. It is about time we get some kind of patient protection, but I am not sure how this can be done. Something needs to be done. I'm sure that the killing of my mom was suspected as a mercy killing euthanasia, so then why bother. My mom was not even terminal and in good health.So really I don't even see how it could have been called a mercy killing.It seems as long as it is even suspected that it was a mercy killing euthanasia, then the investigation is over.The staff can say that we did everything we could and the rest is swept under the table.The best investigation was when they proved that my mom did not die of all the terminal diseases that the staff said she had died from. So they proved she was not terminal. I had a lawyer who was a medical doctor also, he was working with me until he found out she was euthanized which is the same thing as murdered.There was not even a reason to put her down, even if she was a dog. He said he would never do that but he does know of other doctors who do. He had to drop the case after that and my year was up for supposedly wrongful death to find another lawyer. It was more than a wrongful death it was murder.Police can not help with this. This is another good reason for not making any kind of euthanasia legal. and dnrs should be banned. Thank you anyway for your concern.
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Flowgo words cannot express my sympathy for you with what you must have been through. It must continue to be a living nightmare for you and I wish you peace.

However on the subject of DNR's. My poor mum was diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer, we thought on the DNR issue for a few days as it is a massive thing to have to consider esp when you are still reeling from a terminal diagnosis and the decline has really kicked in, which it had for my mum (diagnosis to death in 6 weeks). But if the situation had arisen that my mum had, say, a heart attack and had stopped breathing , would it have been right to go all out to get her heart started again only to suffer massive pain etc and die of this painful cancer? I Imagine each case is very individual but I do think DNR's have their place.

Then again I am in the UK so I do t know if our regulations are slightly different.
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It was not only hospice, it was the hospitals and recovery facility that she stayed at that did most of the killing hospice just finished her off.My dad was in hospice back in the day the hospice he was in did not kill him even when he was dying, they still did not kill him. The staff does not get in trouble cause how can they when it is an elder in the hospital. That is enough to keep them out of trouble even if she is in very good health. It is still an elder in the hospital they can say anything. At least I proved that she was not terminal with the death certificate but nothing matters they can euthanize people like dogs and it is ok even if it is obvious I'm just not sure how they are allowed to get away with it. People have got away with other murders before look at our history. It used to be legal to murder and abuse many groups of different people if we look back on our history. It still continues. This has got to stop.
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First thing is people have to become aware of it, Then when people actually seeing what is happening start seeing what is happening and really going on maybe then we can do something about it.The more it is talked about the more people will come out and tell their experiences. Hopefully we can ban together and the fight the fight and stop these kind of atrocities from being acceptable cause how can such horrible abuse, neglect and murder be acceptable in this day and age but it still is.
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Camellia, Thank you, During all of my research, I have read a lot about something called death pathway in UK for the terminally sick and the elderly. I have read that some elders have been put on it even though they were not terminal or even sick just elder. I have also read that people and the general public are speaking out about it and are not tolerating it. It does seem like many people in the UK are more aware of it and trying to stop it from happening.There are many people over hear that just want to sweep it under the carpet like the medical staff who believe in it.There are others who will just look away unless it happened to them.We may not have the exact death pathway that you have but something eerily similar.I like the fact that so many people in the UK are trying to make a difference and seem to be very involved in trying to stop the terrible medical abuse(haldol adivan etc sedatives) and other abuse, neglect and murder of elders. So maybe things are improving over there hopefully, although I would always keep my guard up anyway. Hopefully it will happen here also.
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What you are speaking of is called "The Liverpool Pathway" in the UK and is to my knowledge no longer used. Maybe CM or Jude know more about it.
Flogo did you request an autopsy to determine what you believe was the cause of her death?
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The Liverpool Care Pathway, to give it its full title. It got a bad name and they're calling it a number of other things now. Like any other prescriptive process, it is (or was) a tool that could be used well, by thinking and skilled care teams, or badly, by overstretched staff in too much of a bloody hurry.

It was never designed to be a resource-saving policy aimed at rubbing out old people before they cost the NHS too much time or money. Unfortunately this perception became the one that prevailed, and hence the LCP was discarded for largely political reasons; so that the doctors and nurses who do the work of guiding terminally ill, frail, elderly people to a dignified and peaceful end will now once again have to work out their own route there from scratch. Let's hope they will always have the skill and the time to do it well enough to compensate for the loss of many decades' combined experience of caring for the dying.
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I wondered that about Hospice, too. My dad was failing, age 91 and had a mesothelioma-like condition. He was alive and lucid one day, fell, and was gone 6 days later. After his fall, we got Hospice to come in. They gave him the morphine/Ativan combo and he went "out of it". I felt he had only a few weeks of breathing left before the fall...he was strangling and suffering, although mentally lucid. This just made his last week less painful. The other benefit to Hospice is for the family! They were wonderful to us and ever so helpful! Even though I still wonder about that drug combo and Hospice, I am grateful he didn't suffer more. We should all be blessed with just going to sleep and then the heart stopping.
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Many people spend the last few days of their lives sleeping or actually unconscious with or without drugs. Exhausted you describe your father as strangling and suffering. hospice used the combination of morphine and ativan to ease his pain and anxiety. You describe him as being out of it which may well have been due to the medications but not giving them would have been a terrible way to die so you are blessed to have made the decision to allow hospice to keep him comfortable. Blessings
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My dad was on hospice for last stages of cancer which is very difficult. He was in pain, but he was completely in control of his pain and his life. He decided when he wanted to go. No decisions were made for him especially when he was to die. He always remained conscious. He was young and did not want to die, he wanted to be able to spend quality time with his family at the end of his life. He was at least in control of his last days and was not pushed into death like hospice usually does now. He died naturally when his body gave out on him, not when their was enough drugs in him to force him to die.
My mom was already being pushed into dying by drug overdoses in the hospital and hospice just finished her off. She was already being killed by the hospital for no reason at all. An owner of a dog would usually not want to put a dog down just because it was old. So how could someone in their right mind do that to a human being. If anyone insisted I kill someone I would quit that job.There is no reason to force someone to die. It is up to the person to decide when they want to go and they have the right to do what they want when it comes to their life.
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We did find out what she died from.
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