I have posted on here many times and answered questions every now and then. Dad passed away Oct 7th 2013 from Liver Cancer . He was in a hospice facility for 11 days until he died. The day before he was admitted he was in the hospital and was talking,eating and very clear headed but his ammonia levels were high and he had been very combative, not eating and wouldn't take his meds for 4 days at his nursing home. ( He was in for a Psych Evaluation.) The hospice worker talked to me about admitting him instead of returning to the nursing home. I agreed to this and arrangements were made. He was transferred later that day and was alert and in good spirits. The next morning he was unresponsive and stayed that way until he passed. They gave him morphine and ativan around the clock. He never got any water but they did cleanse his mouth and moisten it with swabs. It seemed like he could hear me the first few days because I would shake his shoulder and say "dad". His eyes seemed to be moving under his eyelids and his mouth would move slightly. I did ask about them lowering his dosages so he could wake up a little. The nurse said he was getting a very small dosage already. I just wonder if the drugs made him unresponsive and if less was used he could have ate and drank and lived longer. I know it was time for him to go but I'm kinda puzzled about his going from complete alertness and straight into unresponsiveness so quick. The nurses did a Great job. I myself don't know how they do it. They treated dad like he was their baby. So gentle and compassionate. I was just wondering if anyone else had the feeling that death felt a little rushed once their loved one was placed in Hospice.
My dad was an alcoholic and, as time went on, his throat started tightening up. He was in his late 70's. It's very common with alcoholics to have esophageal strictures (tightening of the throat) in the later stages of alcoholism due to the acids causing scarring. Food and water started getting 'caught or hung up' about half way down. He would eat very slowly and chew real well but it was no use. It was just a matter of time before it came up.
The first GI doc he saw did many dilations to his esophagus, about 1 a month for 6 months. I later came to see that the doctor was in this for the money and he had my dad come back every month for a dilation to bill the insurance. He would not sufficiently widen the esophagus, knowing full well that he'd have to come back, so he could make more money.(Dirty b****ard) I finally questioned him on it, he told me if I didn't like his style, I didn't need to come anymore. I was recommended to another one and he was great. Only one treatment and it was done. I think he also had some kind of injection in his throat during his procedure that also helped. It was a blessing to find this GI doc. IF esophageal strictures-(not from alcoholism) is your husbands problem, there's a very good chance that he will swallow fairly normally again. He will be sedated and it will be an outpatient procedure. He will need to be driven home. The next few days he'll need to eat soft foods that are easy to swallow. Healthy shakes and smoothies with nutritional additives can help. If he has lost a lot of weight, his stomach will be smaller, so don't expect him to be able to eat the large quantities like he used to.
All in all it was a God send. Good luck to you both.
No, my dad didn't have cancer.
I'm glad I could help. Having all the information (notes) ready for the doctor will make your visit flow much more smoothly. The info. I would have ready would be;
1. How long has your husband had this problem? Did it come on gradually or quickly?
2. What foods/liquids (if any) 'trigger' the throat to close up? Is it triggered by the 'temperature' of foods/liquids? Are denser foods (steak,etc) harder to swallow?
3. Where (in the esophagus) does the food 'hang up'? (Point to the area).
4. Are liquids easier to get down or the same difficulty as food?
5. How much weight has he lost since this problem started?
6. Has he taken any medications for it and were they helpful?
7. Any history of this happening before this episode?
8. Have a list of all the medications he takes or just throw all his med bottles in a plastic ziploc bag and take them with you.
Take any other pertinent information you can think of (history of smoking, severe gastric reflux disease or peptic ulcer, etc.) along with 'home remedies'.
Hopefully the GI doc will have access to his previous medical records but be prepared to state what medical problems he's had in the last 10-15 years.
Good luck tomorrow. 😊 🙏🏼
If you've been told they have an illness and probably have 6 months or less, think hard. They take away anything that will help them to enjoy their life, like excercise, walking, any meds besides 'comfort only'. They bring on morphine and opiates and Ativan, etc, yes, even when they're not in pain. The nurse said these words to me, "Hospice doesn't hasten death, but by giving these amounts of drugs we can suppress the respiratory system, bring on pneumonia and other problems that will."
I ask the doctor if they could just relieve her pain and suffering and let her die with dignity. No, they said there was nothing they could do but let nature take it course. We sat by her side and watched her slowly die, it was a horrible death. She drew up into the fetal position, and slowly wither away.
In this case, I believe there should be a law allowing the family to decide on assisted death. But, there must be no doubt the person will never recover. Watching someone die a slow painful death is very hard on the family.
My wife is a small woman and it takes two people to hold him down. It seems the doctor don't know what to do with him. We know he wants to die, he has told us many times he ready to go.
My wife is worn out, her sister and aunt have been setting with him day and night, but every day seems to get worse. They have not talked about hospice so far, but if he returns to assisted living he will be put into the nursing home.
I sometimes wonder if we have come as far in medicine as we think we have.
I'm so sorry about your mom, and now it seems your FIL may be next to go. Medicine is now all about money, and how much can be made off each patient.
I'm sorry you're going through this. Hospice in your mom's case is probably to come around as little as possible, but still enough to be able to bill Medicare. They probably feel your mom is going to die anyway, so why bother.
zytrhr,
How in the h*ll can you say that, "Medicine is now all about money, and how much can be made off each patient." Are you nuts? Have YOU been to a doctor lately? Maybe for lab tests or a preventative flu shot? I've had it with your ridiculous remarks. Yes, medical care costs a lot in the U.S. but we have the most advanced technology in the world. We SAVE millions of lives through treatment for existing diseases and/or prevention of acquiring new diseases. Yes, costs are high, but the technology to create new drugs, treatments and machines to keep YOUR butt healthy is expensive. People are not dying, they are living. There is no price on your or your loved one's health.
What insensitive moron would state, "Hospice in your mom's case is probably to come around as little as possible, but still enough to be able to bill Medicare. They probably feel your mom is going to die anyway, so why bother." ?
DOES THAT MAKE ANYONE FEEL BETTER? DOES IT? Are you trying to make the hurting family member feel like cr*p? Well, you're doing a good job of it!!!
You are an ignoramus and should be banned from posting on this board. There are wonderful people here, trying to do their best in an impossible situation. Go find another board to invade with your hateful remarks.
SueC1957, Too Right! This Zytrhr person has been a menace since she/he began posting on this site! I have no idea where she gets her rediculous information, but it Always Wrong, and Always Insensitive! I am inclined to think she is a TROLL, just hanging around to get her Jolly's! I too will make a Complaint to the AC Administration! I've ad it with that poster!
Z. Go away, everywhere you go you cause turmoil to so many caregivers that are doing the best they possibly can.
My mom went to the hospital Jan 20 of this year on the diagnosis of low blood sugar. While there, the hospital PT thought it would help if she went to skilled nursing for PT. She was released from the hospital Jan 26 going straight to skilled nursing. She did the program, passed and even graduated on Mar 5. Her joy of going home was short lived, because of a claim of C-diff. A side effect of the new medicine she was taking could be diarrhea. While thinking she had C-diff she was treated like a leper. She was released to the hospital from skilled nursing, on April 13,because of their concern about her weight (she lost 62 pounds). She was in the hospital a few more days, but was weak again. She lost almost all the strength training she had done. She went to another skilled nursing near the hospital for PT again. She rightfully felt she had done the work, so she did not do it. Instead of the PT being understanding and working with her,they got irritated with her and released her from the program. In the meantime she still was not eating and shared a room with 2 other women, one who made sure to block the lone bathroom in the room, so you would have to go past her to get to it. Back to the hospital again, She was asked why she was not participating. She said she had done the work. The woman made the comment,that was the old place this was the new one. I made the comment her primary care doctor did not want to be involved with her care, and yes it was getting heated. The woman mentioned she could understand my frustration, but the primary care doctor is not involved with the NH physician. She stated some rule or and other nonsense. So, mom was moved to an upstairs room at the hospital. She was still not eating and was now talking about suicide.
PT came to her room, tried to get her to do PT,which she did very little, She was literally staying in bed all day. He said she could probably go home, but she would still be too weak, so another suggestion to go to skilled nursing for PT. This is the decision I regret and will for the rest of my life
Agreed to PT. Picked out 3 places, 2 5 star, one 3 star near home. 5 star, no opening,3 star space. Went there, still not eating, talking of suicide She went there the beginning of May. Social worker fills out paper asking about family and sex life which was kind of inappropriate but mom said "She had a wonderful man, (which he was) and she did not want another one" Mom stayed there 10 days, back to hospital, back to skilled nursing, final time to go to hospital was June 12, a Sunday
Nurse at NH called 3 am Sun morning said mom had temp of 105 had diarrhea for a few days. Scared as heck, Went to hospital, mom in ICU, with diarrhea due to C-diff. C-diff turned to Sepsis, then Septic Shock. Of course in room,had to wear gown and gloves not to infect others. Visit Sun, Tues of that week. She was moved to another room. Visit Father's Day. Watched "Alaskan Bush People" Mom was funny and cognizant. Monday, woman from NH doctor called to state mom would be better at LTACH. Mom went to LTACH upstairs same hospital. She was moved Mon. Went Tues she would open her eyes, yell and close them. I did not know then, she was near death, since her hands were cold. Wed morning call message from nurse 1am in morning. Returned call, nurse said mom was back at ICU. Mom squeezed the nurses hand, opened her eyes, then closed them. That was it. After 5 days, doctors felt she was gone. There was no time to contact her dear friends or my brother who lives across country in Seattle to say Goodbye. Went to say see her on Jun 29. She was hooked up to all these machines, including one for breathing. Made the heartbreaking decision to disconnect life support, This is very hard, made decision after seeing blood in her fingers and back of her head had turned blue due to lack of oxygen. Hospice had been called a few days before. Hospice doctor came to offer support condolences, Priest came and a really nice spiritual lady as well. All 4 (Hospice doctor had trainee) were nice. I told the nice nurse on duty that it would be too hard to see her be disconnected from life support. She was very nice and offered her condolences as well. I left. they disconnected life support at 5 PM, she passed at 5:07 PM. That's her story
I KNOW what most of you are feeling when you lose someone you love. Mom was a lot of fun to be around and smart as well. Her stories, some were hilarious, some serious, With her gone, things aren't and will never be the same. I miss her everyday.
Ironically police who came to the house when the hospital wanted her body out of there were nicer than Firemen who came along with the EMTs. She did live to 20 years since her retirement but passed before her 85th birthday which is in Aug.
Why I don't too much care for doctors, The NH doctor who "treated"
signed the papers to get paid July 4. Never heard from his staff or he again,and don't expect to. No call, card or condolences.
One of my brothers passed April 12 at 12:34am at the hospital from a heart attack. Mom did not know about his death while she was alive.
I am sorry for the loss of your mother. It is a very painful thing to go through. It seems like you felt out of control in her passing, as most of us do. But we are all going to pass in our own individual way.
Your mother had nothing to do with why people are upset with you. That is NOT why people are angry. You claim to be sensitive to the dying and their families, so WHY do you write such horrible things? Maybe you don't realize WHAT you are saying and HOW it comes across to people. Maybe English isn't your first language and you have trouble navigating through the "rules of etiquette" of what to say and what not to say in this culture. Can't you see that many of us are outraged by what you write? Why do you think that we are angry? Because you have hurt and offended us by what you've said.
I will give you some tips on what NOT to say here.
1. Do NOT say anything negative about the people caring for a loved ones' family member. (The hospice isn't coming because they're just waiting for her to die anyway.) That is very OFFENSIVE and it just isn't said.
2. Try to be as comforting to the family of the dying person as possible, just like you wanted everyone (connected with your mom), to be with you. Do not just blurt out your opinion, check it first to see whether YOU'D be offended if someone said that to you. You told me once, on a different thread, that I wouldn't CARE when my mom dies because I said that we didn't have a great relationship throughout the years because she is narcissistic. How do you know what I'd feel? I might cry my eyes out in sorrow for the relationship that we never had. You need to always keep in mind if your words could hurt someone else.
3. Maybe you should read your responses to someone at home first before you post them, until you get a better "feel" for what is insulting and what isn't.
4. Maybe you could write a "disclaimer", I don't mean to offend anyone but could it be that........
5. Most of all be positive! Try to give people comfort and hope. Do NOT dwell on the negative aspects of the situation.
Most of us don't want to be around someone when we feel they are attacking us.
I am trying to understand your thinking process and get over the anger I have built against you. Please make yourself "lovable' and no one will have bad feeling toward you.
Calling Hospice nurses "muderers" is beyond unacceptable.
I agree with Babalou above, your Dad's passing was from something else, not the morphine. It could have been an aneurysm.
In Hospice care the usual dosage is between 5-15mg to help keep the pain down. In order for morphine to take a life, the minimum dosage would need to be 200mg. I hope that will give you comfort knowing it wasn't the morphine.