If don't have Power of Attorney for my mother can I still take her out of a nursing home and have her live with me?

Jeanne..I spoke with a social worker today and I will keep you posted.Thanks again for the help....

Thanks Coach,
I appreciate your comment,but I am aware of all you stated. I have done lots of research and asked questions for the past 7 months. I wouldn't jeopardize my mom's well being to satisfy myself. I have been trained to suction, unclog the feeding tube and have learned the diaper changing. That is not the issue..
Its been a mistake all along by agencies and lying social workers and doctors to keep my mother in a nursing facility. Its very easy to state to keep her in nursing home when you are there most of the day and have to constantly remind them to change her diaper (which they prefer to do every 8 or 10 hours . "Patient Care" at hospitals is "Don't Care". I am more than sure that with her at home I can change her frequently and it would be a less negative environment.Clothes getting lost and stolen items are a turn-off and people after money.This is all a scam and a business. I wont give up and I will stop when she dies..At least I wont feel bad and cant say I tried.Thanks for the well wishes..I hope I get my wish and prayer.

You stated your mother can't swallow and is receiving nourisment by use of a tube. But more importantly you said your mother has a trach. It would appear that your mother really needs skilled nursing care provided by the nursing home she is in. Are you a licensed nurse? Do you know anything about trach care? For that matter do you know anything about tube feedings that your mother will need, most likely for the rest of her days. A trach can become blocked at anytime and require suctioning. What happens to mom if this occurs during the 20 hours a day that home health is not around?? Medicaid won't pay for a nurse to be in your home 24 hours per day. Leave mom in the nursing home for her own good. See if there is any chance of having Speech Therapy work with her on her swallowing problem and Respiratory Therapy to work with her on possibly getting her off the trach. If this can be done, by all means take her home. If not, you need to realize that your mom has some very serious problems. I know this isn't what you want to hear. But just giving an honest opinion. All the Best to your Mom and You.

That is why I suggest you contact a social worker outside of the facility -- it doesn't sound like you can build a working relationship there.

Well she is not brain dead,but she does understand commands and is able to answer questions even though we cannot hear her voice.To me she is legally competent.She cries and tells me she wants to go home.The hospital social worker is doing absolutely nothing to help me.She made me believe she was,but that is not what I am seeing and I haven't met the one assigned to the new facility.

Is your mother of sound mind? That is, would she be considered legally competent? If so, she can decide to leave the nursing home -- it isn't a prison -- or to appoint you her medical proxy.

Usually (at least in this state) someone on Medicaid has a case manager or social worker assigned. Does your mother? That would be a good person to contact.

sorry if i wasn't clear jeanne.This is what happened.My mom is "86" and after suffering a stroke in dec. 2010, she was sent to a hospital to be taken off the ventilator. she ws stabilized almost immediately and her doctor was always telling me to take her home.at that time, she had "No" Medicaid,but I had applied in December 2010 and never got a response.Well, she had been eligible since December and had Medicaid for over 6 months without me knwoing about it (according to them at the hospital). As soon as I provided them with the Medicaid Info,they fooled me and left a letter by my moms bed stating she had to be moved to a Nursing Facility because she was "Medically Stable". I was told that the goal was always to bring her home but that no agency would want her case. I found out through Medicaid and agencies who have been calling me that they were not opposed to giving her home care services. Last Friday, my mother was moved to a "Nursing Facility" within the hospital without my consent.I have not spoken to anyone and I feel my rights or my mother's rights were violated. I have a POA but for fiances only to be able to do any bank transactions,because my mom has no money or properties.She receives her SS check there(direct deposit) and I pay her bills.Apparently what I am seeing is they were determined all along to stay with her and collect Medicaid,Medicare and her check and stay with her. I would love with all my heart for my mother to come back home and when her time comes to be at home. As for your question, (is she going soon),well I have no idea.It was just a comment since we never know when our time is,but she is doing great. I know for a fact they used the lame excuse because she still cant swallow and has her trache and is being fed milk through the tube in stomach; that is all. Visiting Nurse services have stated a guarantee of 4 hours daily and will provide more hours if Medicaid pays,but they ignore me when go and speak with them. I hope I have answered your questions .Thanks for your concern and please feel free to ask me more if required.

cathyluv52, can you give us a little more information? Are you medical proxy/POA? How old is your mother? What is her medical/mental status? Was your mother sent to a Transitional Care Unit in a nursing home, for Rehab? If so, how long is she supposed to stay there? Who is paying for the NH? Is she on hospice? When you mention going to the Lord, is that likely to be soon?

I thought I was alone on this one. Thank God it has nothing to with with a brother-sister issue. I have been deceived by the social worker at the hospital and my mother was placed in an nursing home without my consent. Can anybody help me or refer me to someone? They think they own her!!! All I want to do is bring her home until she goes with the LORD, is that so difficult? Please respond..I am desperate!!

I agree with you about the heart to heart if that is possible. It unfortunately is not always that easy. It wasn't for me. My sister and I were very close and I never thought we would be at this point and not talk at all. Money, jealousy, guilt and greed are the root of all evil. It takes a toll on my family and our life as we cannot go anywhere and we get no help in the day to day things mom needs and her care. It is definitely not easy to care for someone in your home with dementia and I live it every day and my heart aches as I watch my mom go downhill a little more each day. It must be thought out very carefully but you cannot sit and watch a loved one just be put somewhere out of convenience to get them out of the way if that is the case. If krn can talk to her brother than that is where to start. If not, then careful thought needs to be taken to take care of mom.

Well, that would be the easy route, wouldn't it? If Mom wants POA changed and is legally competent to do it, presto chango it's done!

I think it would be a good idea for krnhersh to have a heart-to-heart in-person discussion with Brother, and hear all the reasons he decided that a NH would be best for Mom. Maybe he is selfish and lazy, and maybe he is sincerely tryig to do his best. But hearing his version would be useful. Bringing mother (with dementia) into your home to live is a huge life-changing decision, and it needs to be thought about carefully from the head as well as the heart.

You are correct. I guess it varies from person to person and from attorneys. From my own personal experience from our attorney and the Protective Services woman a person has to be pretty out of it. As long as they know they are signing a legal document and not the grocery list (this was our lawyer's analogy) they can change their will and POA. The protective services woman said even though mom does not really have too much of a short term memory she knew exactly what she wanted done with her money and her estate.

Oh, right, Italianbabs. Mother can revoke without any reason whatsoever, if she is competent to do so. Since she has dementia I wasn't sure if that was the case. I don't know the standards for judging someone competent to make this kind of decision. That is probably something to lawyer could answer pretty quickly!

My mom revoked her POA before she knew the funds were being withdrawn from her account. You don't need any reason other than you don't want them to be your power of attorney any longer to have it revoked. It is strictly up to the person as to whom they want to take over. Krn's mom can revoke the son if that is her choice and she does not need proof of any kind for anything. If mom is capable of distinguishing that she is revoking her POA and that is what she truly wants to do then she can do it!

Italianbabs, it sounds like you had specific grounds (financial) for having the POA revoked. Krnhersh, your brother has done things you disagree with, but are any of them grounds for revoking the POA? I guess a lawyer could help you discover that, but if mother has appointed son in this role I would guess it would take some proof of wrongdoing to overturn her decision. It sounds like it is distance, not your brother, that is keeping you from visiting more often, and you do talk to her on the phone. What happened to the contents of the apartment? If brother sold it and isn't using the money for mother's care, that would be something the lawyer should know.

I am sincerely sorry for the pain you are feeling. Do let us know the results if you talk to a lawyer.

You bet! krn, that is exactly what we did like jam said. We made my mom's brother her new POA. This way he is a neutral party and it kept myself and my sister out of it. My uncle is acting in the best interest of my mother and that is the way it should be. No sibling rivalry or greed or revenge just plain old "lets do what is best for mom at this stage of her life".

naheaton......you got it!!!!! That is usually always what it boils down to in the end. And boy am I glad my husband and I don't have that to worry about with his mother.

krn.....you still haven't said what your mother's mental status is and what she would like. That would help a lot. And yes, you really need to let an attorney handle it. And not one that only wants to gouge you in the wallet.

italianbabs......I'm glad everything worked out for you. I'm sure you are much relieved now and mom is too since she got her money back.

Jam

km, are there any other family members that you can go to for help? There must be a cousin or aunt/uncle to talk to? This is a ridiculous situation to be in. Without the legal POA you can't pay the bills so the nursing home isn't going to listen to the one that won't pay them. And the one that DOES pay the bills is a jerk and is keeping you out of the loop as to your mother's care. Have you and your brother always had this animosity towards each other? That's why I was hoping that there would be another relative that could be a mediator perhaps. Don't you have any trusted friends that can come along side of you for support?
I just know this whole thing is going to come down to what the Bible talks about, "the LOVE of money being the root of all EVIL" In most cases I've read about, it's one sibling who never has liked the parent much or had some burn on about their family, finally getting the opportunity to grab control of what money that parent has and put the screws to the family. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Glad I could help. It's good to hear from other people and get valuable information that you might not have know about. This website helped me a great deal and God bless all caregivers.

sorry for the typos- lots of errors- hope u understand the jist of it-
later-
k

you are giving me a gift of hope-thankyou-
tried to speak to mom about 1hr ago- nuse -ot on pfloor- only 1 cna-, asked to have dr call me back- pn vacation- so please leave mess- or give me office #-she said - oh i dont have any number for him-what a crock!!so, getting ove the 45 min ridiculous
conversations, i am now taking a break for some oj- and then head into the legal areas-
thanks-
late
love u
k

Yes. It all did work out for us. The day Protective Services spoke to my sister she agreed to turn over all mom's money to my uncle and wrote him a check last week. My mom got most of her money back. I think sister still took some and hid it but she had 5 different accounts going and Protetive services found them all. Please contact them. They are there to keep the elderly from being exploited either physically or emotionally or financially. Do not pay $500.00. Mom paid $225.00 for both her POA and a new will. Shop around. There are also places for the elderly here in Pittsburgh that charge a small amount to get new POA's and wills done. It doesn't take a great deal of time to find out where they are. Just type in the internet for Elder Abuse attorneys or help. Good Luck and go for it. I was scared at first to go after my sister but when I saw the smile on my mom's face when she got her money back, it was all worth it. Take care of you mom if you know in your heart your brother is just not doing something right!!!! keep us posted of you progress.

wow- unbelievable- so much of this goes on is horrible- but maybe human nature?
idont know- too many things to take care of now- later i can delve into human behaviors ,etc.
and thisworked for u?????
going to check this out-
found a lawyer- but also had issues of my brother sueing me -fathers estate- but i wanted this lawyer to help with moms deal too- she was going to charge 500 for dads isues, and said since mom was in mass. she had to refer me to someone there- i dont think i am comfortable hiring this lawyer-
thanks sp much for sharing- lots of great info-
love
k

Just went through alot of this. If you mother is of sound mind. She can have some dementia and still be able to do this. Go to an attorney for around $100 and have his Power of Attorney revoked and notarized which they will do there. You can also print on online at legal zoom or somewhere like that and get it notarized as well. If you can get you hands on a copy of your brother's POA that will help you revoke it a little easier. That's all it takes and you can get your mother out of there and put her in a nicer facility. If you cannot have the POA changed for some reason you can also contact your local Department of Aging-Protective Services and they will investigate for you. They just helped me out tremendously as my sister had POA and hid all my mothers money and when she was revoked would not give up her POA to new POA. Department of Aging can investigage for elderly abuse meaning she is not getting proper care and he is withholding you as her daughter from certain things.

You should check with an attorney. If your brother has the POA- he has the power to limit your access to mom so I'd make a phone call to your attorney ASAP.

brother

Who signed her in?

Who has both Medical and Financial Durable POA now?
See a lawyer.

s POA does that given him the right to ,not include me in cleaning out her house?
to empty and remove and refuse to gie me any details-reasons- is that right?
i dot understand--but then again-a great deal of this whole process is very cruel.

Coach is correct....if your mother is still sound mentally, have an attorney draw up a new POA, have mom and you sign and notorized. That's it, done. And make sure the POA details that you control all medical and financial issues. It needs to be done that way to keep any confusion down. My husband and I have complete POA for his mother. I had medical only for my mother and it was a real pain to have to get my brother to sign a handful of checks so that I could pay her NH bill every month. And then when she passed away, my brother who had not seen her for years by his own choice, just barged right in and made all kinds of arrangements for burial. So it's best to have it all in one document. Hope this helps. Good Luck!!!!

You would have to get your mother, if she still of sound mind, to make the change from your brother to you. If not you would have to prove to a court that he is not meeting his responsibilities as POA. This will become very messy.