How do I know when my father is really ill or faking it?

Ringo1, if he is sweet old man who loves you, you wouldn't be in this situation. I am sorry, but these parents who manipulate their kids, it takes alot to see through them. We are blinded by our love for them. What about their love for us. It took me having three daughters, my Dad dying, and my Mom being as ass about her finances to realize that she had always "never been there" for my brother and I. Mom can appear sweet too, but she is selfish. Just take some time to reflect on all you have said here, reread what you have posted and tell me if a sweet, unselfish parent would do this to their child and grandchild.

Unless he has dementia or something that has changed his personality, I suspect he has always been this way. You have to protect yourself, your job and your relationship with your son. Grandpa's needs can be more than met in a nice assisted living facility. Don't look back, just do it. I hope he cooperates with you.

ringo - the probem with all of this is that there are no easy answers. You just have to make a decision one way or the other and do it. Those of us who agonize and despair and worry and fret over the fate of our parents are the good ones IMHO. At least we can sleep well at night knowing we've done our part, and we've done our best, for our parents.

As for hoping you die before your son has to deal - make sure he knows how you feel. make sure everyone in your life knows. Do a living will - if you don't have one already you can get them online - and attach with it specific instructions in case of dementia.

Having seen my MIL's pain and suffering with cancer and her death at age 49, I decided long ago I would never do chemo unless 'they' could all but guarantee I would have a complete recovery. Now, having lived since 2006 with the ravages of my Mom's Alzheimer's, I (and my husband) are more determined than ever than our three adult daughters will NEVER find themselves in a similar position.

Oh gosh; yesterday he was so sweet that I felt awful about sending him to an ALC.

The 3 of us went to dinner and he did talk about the money; how he can't stand the thought of them taking all his money. I talked about the pros - the thought of 3 meals a day and some companionship with people his own age - have to be appealing.

I know that I can't make this happen befoe his surgery in two weeks. I'm not that good.

He seemed so sweet and helpless; I cried all the way to work wondering if this is the right thing to do.

My logical mind says 'Yes" - the way we are living is not normal; I have no friends; no privacy; no private time with my son; and again, functioning as the surrogate wife since 2001. My father has no appropriate social contacts other than his caregiver and relies on her, my son and I to meet ALL his emotional and physical needs. He needs companionship; activities; and 3 good meals a day as oppposed to doughnuts and soup the days his caregiver is not there and I don't have time to cook.

My emotional mind says "why can't you make this work?" It's financially advantageous; he's a sweet old man; he loves me and my son . . . am I blaming him for too much for what's wrong in my life.

I know, in my heart, that we would all be better off with him in ALF - most of all, HIM. But it's so so hard to think of 'sending your father away'.

Prayers for all of us facing this situation. I truly hope I die before my son ever has to make decisions like these.

I should add, I used to respond to many of her complaints giving her the benefit of the doubt and they grew and grew and grew. I have spent hours and hours and too much energy over the years trying to sort out things that were wild goose chases. Now, to look after myself, I have decided I will respond when I KNOW there is an emergency or serious problem. There are people nearer her who can help in the short term - the staff at the ALF - and others who can notify me if I am needed.

Go for it - and before the surgery. You are NOT a terrible person. My mother is very manipulative too and can almost outshop me and she is in her late 90's, but "cannot" do what she does not want to do. She is in an ALF, had Borderline Personality Disorfder and compains about everything - vigorously. I know as long as she is complaining she is fine, as it is her favourite past time. I limit contact as the continal negativity is very stressful, as are the demands to follow up on the complaints which are just the ups and downs on life. She is well cared for, nourished, in a beautiful apartment etc. She is physically A1 as pronouncd by doctors on the many visits to the ER. I believe if you allow it, people with this personality will use up every bit of energy and time you have and you need to spend some of that on yourself. I am in my 70's and my health has suffered so I have had to distance. Mother is still fine and has the help she needs. Is she happy? She complains a lot but them she always has. No one is responsible for someone else's happiness - just for their care.

Ringo1 NO ONE thinks you are a terrible person. I moved my 85 yr old mother in with me and its been a 3yrs now. I have all the issues you have, I work all day, I have a 19yrs old daughter who I have in college. I left a 20yr miserable marriage bought my current house thinking my life would be better..its only more challenges with my elderly mother. She tells everybody I am the mother, and I hate it..but once a week usually Sunday, is my day for rest and I do something for myself alone! I know I will have to make a decision soon for my mother's care outside my house. So when you have done the best you can for your parent..as a caregiver or placing them in AL or nursing home, that is still done for the best. Be blessed.

Ringo, I am so happy to see you've talked with your Dad about AL and at least now you know what direction to take. It also makes the whole situation so much more bearable that you can talk with your Dad and know that he is willing to accept change. One thing I want to share with you though is why wait until after your Dad has his cataract surgery? They say that the recovery is easy afterwards but it still takes time with the bandages etc for healing. It might be better for your father and you if you can get him into AL beforehand. We went through this surgery twice a few years back with my father and everything went fine with him, he recovered fine but a certain amount of care was needed to make sure he healed well afterwards. If you can't get him into AL beforehand at least you have a caregiver there when you're at work. Thanks for keeping us posted :)

ringo - just wanted to add that I agree about being present for your son. I personally believe its every bit as important to be available to your teens as it is with toddlers. A majority of them anyway.

I agree with feelingnuts, I just hope he will go along with it when he finds out how much they really cost. Mom and Dad (now deceased) couldn't pay for anything while I was growing up, no college, no weddings, no vacations, no anything. They had to save for their "old age". For years Mom has thrown it up to my brother and I that she wants to go into assisted living, then a nursing home. Now she is 81 and lonely, will not keep up her home, can't do anything for her self (not because of her age or physical abilities). So, I started talking to her about visiting a very nice assisted living just a few miles from her home and across the street from my brother. She won't go, now says she just wants to go to a nursing home when she needs it and she does not want a caregiver in her home. Finally I realized she isn't going to spend a nickel on any of this. Just be an unhappy old woman. She is only happy having a pile of money and not spending it. I sure hope your Dad doesn't pull something like that. Mom will spend some of her money on her care, she has burned so many bridges she will have to.

Ringo,
No one thinks you are a terrible person we have all been there done that, we need to do what is best for us.
Hang in there. :)

Well, after a sleepless night - worrying about his chest pain - I spoke with him this morning. Surprise ~ the chest pain is gone.

However, it did spur me to have another conversation about AL with my father. I told him that I would worry less and probably he as well - if he were in a situation where he had nurses and aides trained to handle all of his medical issues. He agreed that this might be the case. I advised that I wanted to re-visit ALs after his cataract surgery in September and he agreed.

Really, last night was the last straw; it probably was manipulation on his part OR just the fact that he does little all day but obsess over his every ache and pain - AS he has done for the past umpteen years.

I love my Father very much; but do not think our living situation is good for either of us. He is too isolated; refuses Senior Center, etc. I am currently functioning as his surrogate wife/mother/cook/nurse - and it's awful. I've been functioning as his 'surrogate wife' since my mother died in 2001. Cooking, arranging doctor appointments, keeping him entertained . . . it's NOT normal.

He seemed to like two of the AL Centers that we previously visited - though he does not want to spend the money - I think he should now. He can't take it with him and he needs it now. He needs more than I can provide. I feel like I have reached the end of my caregiver rope as well.

Though my son is a teen-ager - he still needs me to be fully present. I CANNOT take my eye off the ball now; this is when kids get into trouble.

Thanks for listening. I hope no one thinks I'm a terrible person.

Are you sure we all don't have the same parents, the things that you are saying my 99 year old father always has back pain, then the stomach upset but boy does the tums work really fast in less then 5 min when I get it to him the stomach upset is gone. Then we go on to dizziness so that he can't get up. I finally started writing it down when he would have all his different things, and yes there is a pattern to it.
I know the feeling about them not saying any only to you because my father does the same thing he waits intill I get home to say anything even if my husband has been with him all day. I don't know how you do it working full time, I only work 2 days a week, but it is wonderful to get out in the real world.
Hang in there. :)

Your father should meet my mother. Two birds of a feather. This is probably just manipulation on his part. Mom does this also. She uses all her little aches and pains as excuses for not doing anything she doesn't want to do but can out shop me anyday of the year, seriously. It is always, "I can't sleep, my legs hurt, my stomach hurts. etc." however she is the healthiest 81 year old you ever saw. When I suggest that she see a doctor for whatever ache or pain she has, she turns on me and says "just don't you worry about it." SOOO.... If your Dad is really not ill and is manipulative, tune him out as best you can. Believe me if he were really sick or having chest pains, he would want the world to know! These guys thrive on attention and he doesn't bother the caretaker because she probably isn't as easy to manipulate.

oh Ringo ~
I had that situation occur again & again. I never knew when to be concerned or the wolf was lurking.

Sometimes my strong father ignored pain. It was always about 3 AM when he'd call to say he was feeling the worst pain ever. Off to the ER. Discover he had broken sme ribs in a fall which occured several days prior.

Other times his normally alert behavior would become fuzzy, his kind demeanor would become cranky.
Yep ... the dreaded UTI. He became immune to the standard antibiotics. Eventually his growing prostate required a catheter so he wouldn't be up pissing every 5 minutes.

I have no advice. Serious sympathy tho ... I'd never know when he needed medical attention or if he was watching TV when they rattle off dozens of possible side affects of a drug they are advertising.

Good luck.

Gawd Ringo, I can relate! My Dad does the same thing to me. I quit working 4 yrs ago when I moved him in with me. Our Dads might be completely different or not, I do not know. There are days where I wish I could go to work just to get away from him. I finally realized that it is his dementia and depression that makes him obsess over any trivial thing and makes it into a big thing. When my Dad was following me around constantly and driving me crazy I just hugged him and that's all he wanted then. Now there are times when he has an issue about one thing or another and thinks we need to go see a doctor and I remind him that we already saw a doctor for it and asked if he was doing what the doctor said? he would forget. He forgets a lot, and then I realized one of the reasons he nags me about something is because he is afraid he will forget.
You poor thing, that's got to be really tough on you to work all day and come home to your fathers needs, be it real or unreal. It's taken me these past 4 yrs just to figure what I have out about my Dad. Sorry I don't have any magical advice for you on this. The only thing I can think of would be to sit your Dad down and tell him how his wanting it to only be you to fix everything for him is just to much for you to handle and explain to him that you can't do everything and would he please help you out by asking the caregiver for help when he has an issue. If he can't work with you then perhaps you might want to look into AL that is nearby. We have to take care of our physical, mental and emotional needs or we won't be in any condition to take care of the ones we love. It sounds to me like you need some time for self care and some "me time" without guilt. We all need this and it's good for our aged parents to know it.