Why are DNR's not banned and why is there still talk about legalizing euthanasia?

Hi Flowgo,
This is controversial because many people feel it's their right to decide if they want to be kept alive artificially after their body naturally starts to shut down. Many are in horrible pain and are medicated for that by choice.
You are right that this practice can be abused, but in most cases the patient's wishes are followed. However, the very fact that a DNR can be abused is what bothers some people. The controversy will likely always be around, as nearly any practice can be abused. Still, DNR is a choice, and people who don't want it don't need to have it on their record.
As for euthanasia, that's not likely to become legal for a long time, if ever. The topic will come up in politics because a few vocal people believe in the practice, however, most do not, even if they believe in choices for themselves. I don't think you have much to worry about there.
There is always room for discussion on these issues, but in the end families should talk at length with their elders long before an elder becomes ill. Then families know better what the elder would want done (or not done) in the end stages.
Thank you for being such a caring person,
Carol

I have personally selected a living will with the DNA option, because I want the choice not to keep my body alive when there is no life left. I had a very ill sister, who spent her last years in a nursing home, except she was in the hospital half the time with complications from the tubes and meds that were keeping her body going. She insisted on no DNR, and her wishes were honored to the point where they spent 20 minutes bringing her back from cardiac arrest and succeeded. Then she was a brain dead person living in a very sick body. Her choices cost the government more than a million dollars; her last hospital stay was more than $155,000. All for nothing. She was never going to get better. I can't, personally, do that to my family and so a DNR, should I need it, is right for me.

flowgo, you sound very angry, and like you have specific cases in mind. If you have evidence of murder, surely you have/are going to the police with it.

My husband has DNR in his file. He has been hospitalized twice since then and I saw absolutely no evidence of poor practices (other than hospitals are not equipped to handle dementia patients -- with or without DNR.)

My fear is that a hospital with particular religous affiliation might not honor the DNR decision. I have talked to the hospital administrators of the places that would most likely treat my husband to be reassured on this point.

All vulnerable adults (which is just about every adult in a hospital, at least for the duration of their illness) needs an alert and smart advocate, to see that the patient's wishes are honored.

I suggest that a hospital that is intent on murdering patients for their convenience would finds ways to do it with or without DNR paperwork. If such hospitals exist, it would take more than banning DNRs to stop them. (But the hospitals would make more money by prolonging life, so I'm not sure what the motivation would be. Hmmm.)

I am glad you have the right to not have DNR in your medical file. I am glad I have the right to have it. It is a very personal decision and I would hate to see it legislated.

flowgo, I respectfully disagree. There comes a point where keeping the body working just doesn't serve the patient as a person. It wasn't that long ago that medicine couldn't do that, and people would never have made it as long as they now do. A DNR, especially for someone with a terminal illness, spares everyone the emotional and financial cost of prolonging the inevitable. .
Two days ago, we had a vet come to the house to put down our cat, who had an untreatable spinal tumor and who was increasingly miserable and could no longer walk or excrete waste. We can do that for a pet, but we can't do it in cases where prolonging physical life is causing true heartache for everyone involved...MOST ESPECIALLY THE PATIENT.
You are free to hold your own views. Please honor that others see things differently, and have good reason to.

DNR stands for DO NOT RESUSCITATE and that means if you should stop breathing or your heart would quit beating no one will attempt to revive you. It does not mean that you will not be cared for nor does it mean that a potentially treatable disease won't be treated.
I have been an RN for years and the kindest thing I've seen happen in the medical world are DNR orders. When I first became a nurse we did not have DNR orders. We had to try and save everybody! I remember old folks coming from the nursing homes, bedridden from multiple strokes and we'd be sticking IVs in them and tubes in every orifice they had and when they coded we'd code them and for what reason? So the could go back to the nursing home and do it all again next week. It was horrible, it was cruel. I remember thinking "we're kinder to our dogs than we are to these people".
Death no matter how it comes is ugly. There is no dignity in it. It's hard to die and hard to watch a loved one pass on as their body shuts down.
I'm sorry you and your family had a negative experience. You don't have to be a DNR pt, that is your right. But don't you dare try to take my DNR choice away from me or my family!!!!

A DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) and/or POLST (Physician Order for Life Sustaining Treatment) is for the PATIENT to sign, not the family. It is a statement of what you want done and what you don't want done.

It is NOBODY'S business what a person does with THEIR OWN life at the end stages. If I've got cancer and am in great pain, I'm going to sign a DNR and POLST so I don't suffer any longer than I have to. In most terminal diseases, the person themselves should be able to dictate what treatment they want to receive or refuse.

Many people sign THEMSELVES into hospice. That is THEIR choice. They know that hospice uses Morphine and Ativan, they agree to that and it is NO ONE ELSE'S business
what they do with their end of life plans. You also have the right to refuse medications at any time. To forcefully make a patient take a medicine is battery (like assault and battery).

When one group starts dictating what others should and shouldn't do, we no longer have individual rights, which is a violation of the constitution.

Profile, I applaud your right to stand against euthanasia, mercy killing, abortion, hospice, assisted suicide or any other cause you choose.
But you HAVE to let other people decide for themselves. It's not YOUR place to tell them what to do. You only have jurisdiction over your OWN life.

Can we please leave it that way?


Morgan,
So you are saying that "the greatest generation" is being MURDERED by "the baby boomers" (their OWN children) for convenience sake? Holy Moly, you must be out of your mind! Have you read this board? It is FILLED with those of us who are taking care of our parents, the best way we can, sacrificing home, marriage, money and health, in the process. As are 90% of other baby boomers around our country.

Yes, there may be a small percentage who don't want or can't have the responsibility of caregiving for reasons that range from laziness to the baby boomer being a victim of the parent's verbal, emotional and physical/sexual abuse. So shame on the lazy kid but what about the abused adult child. This board has many posts from them. It would be in their best interest not be around their parent. If there are no other family members, the state will be their guardian.
What about those baby boomers that are caring for others-maybe a MIL and a disabled child in the same house? Or those who are disabled (mentally or physically) themselves?
WHO ARE YOU TO DETERMINE WHO IS "BAD" FOR NOT TAKING CARE OF THEIR PARENTS? I suggest you find out what is the REASON that every adult child can't take care of their folks before you point your finger.

Now-My Pet Peeve;
As for "the greatest generation" (WW2 vets), ALL PEOPLE who have served their country and endured hardships and loss, pain and suffering, trauma and torture, potentially giving their lives for the United States of America, ARE THE GREATEST. One age group only doesn't deserve that distinction. Heroes are any age, from any generation. God bless the KIA's and MIA's from ALL wars and conflicts, for fighting on our behalf for our freedom. They ALL are true heroes.

Damita, be careful about drawing conclusions with a broad brush. The greatest generation suffered the Depression as children, not the parents struggling to house and fed the family. They experienced a huge economic jump, with secure jobs and lived to see nice pensions and retirements. Their parents often passed before the GG's had retired, and many GG's never had to do hands on care of their parents. Now the GG's are living into their 90's, and the "spoiled boomers" have been caring for parents and children. The "spoiled" boomers are 70 years olds with health problems of their own. And the boomers are dealing with spoiled GG's who've had lovely retirements and expect the boomers to keep their lives as they always were.  The boomers, however, are using their retirements not to take cruises, but care for parents. In many cases, it is the GG's who are selfish to the core, not the exhausted boomers.

Admins please close this thread to new comments.

I get that everyone is entitled to their opinions but some of comments and opinions here are quite upsetting! Some of you clearly don't think before you speak and are very selfish people! Its not about you, its about your loved one and what THEY WANT! My mother, a retired nurse, was diagnosed with COPD 10-12 years ago. I have watched her suffer for years. She has a DNR. She does not want to be kept alive by machines. She unfortunately knows darn well what she's going to face at the end. I am incredibly thankful that we, her family, have the ability to honor her wishes and let her pass peacefully and with dignity when the time comes. My MIL was diagnosed with idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis a little over a year ago. They said she had 5 years left. Well guess what? They were wrong and she's on her death bed and we are all watching her suffer as she slowly dies. Its is truly horrible and I wish this on NO ONE! She is bedridden, on 12liters oxygen, she's developing bed sores, she coughs non-stop and struggles to breath. She was given 3 months to live 8 weeks ago and that estimate appears to be correct as she steadily declines. There are some family members that want my MIL to live as long as possible. They try to feed her solid food which she chokes on. They think hospice is only here to speed up the dying process. They don't want her taking ativan or morphine so she wakes up in a panic multiple times a night, gasping for air and screaming for help! She cannot regulate her body temperature, her body is now having trouble circulating blood. She can't even get up to use the toilet anymore, not even with assistance. A stranger has to come in and clean her. I guess these family members don't realize that if she needs to be resuscitated, that CPR will mostly likely break her ribs and that broken ribs are painful? That if she gets placed on machines, she will never come off them. she won't be able to talk to us. she will be a vegetable. Does my MIL want to die? Probably not. She never had a chance to come to terms with her diagnosis because it all happened so fast and she declined rapidly. But I can say with absolute certainty that she does not want to live like this. She has a DNR. She stipulated she does not want to prolong death and she does not want any intervention, no machines. My MIL struggles to breath 24/7. I struggle to understand why some family members want to keep her living like this for as long as possible? How and why they are OK prolonging her suffering? WHY? Because its what THEY want? I don't want my mother to die. I don't want my MIL to die. I also don't want to see them suffer. I can't understand why the needs and wants of OTHER PEOPLE should affect my MIL's right to die?I don't understand why a DNR is immoral and unethical? Thanks to the DNR and medical POA, when the time comes, despite what the others want, she will be given small doses of morphine that will allow her to go in peace in her own home, which is what SHE wants. How is that wrong? How would it be moral, ethical, and a good thing to prolong her suffering, have medical staff performing chest compressions, breaking her bones (inflicting pain) & then hooking her up to machines that she will never ever come off of? Why is that any better than letting her go to sleep to die in peace?

If the patient died five years ago, as in flowgo's situation, and you are still engulfed in anger and despair, please get some medications for a deep and darkening depression. Get some expert counseling for a grief that has trapped you in a deep dark place. You want to live a better life.