I live in an apt. in NYC. There is an 88-year-old woman that lives on my floor. She washes herself with her own urine and relieves herself. Is this elder abuse?

I am not going to argue with sylvester18 simply because my time is not worth the effort! Someone mentioned this may be from a culture belief, however, I do not go along with that thought. I do not know NY law, here in California, if you call the police telling them that someone can not care for themselves they will go out to investigate. If they find the person in conditions that are unacceptable and unable to care for themselves, they will send them to a hospital for a diagnosis. In the case of this woman, her family would be contacted as well. I do not know why this discussion has gone on because someone should contact the police. I can't do it because I don't know the address and if I did I would call in a heart beat.♥♥!!

I agree with sandysandy - sylvester18's remarks were not helpful. Sadly, if a person is bathing in their own urine and begging for food - can one seriously think they are functioning on all cylinders?

At the very least - the person needs help - but making an 88 year old person feel GUILTY for not cleaning another older person's apt. is thoughtless. We can only hope sylvester18 was just having a bad day.

The person's family or Authorities need to evaluate the situation - only then can they determine this woman's needs.

For instance, my 87 year old MIL can barely walk - I would hate to think that someone would assume SHE could help anyone with ANY kind of housework - except possibly dusting. She can barely walk, cannot bend over without dizziness and cannot lift. She must hold onto a walker 100% of the time.

So, without knowing the health circumstances of the poster - we certainly should not tell her she needs to go in and clean someone's apt for them. She is just asking for suggestions on finding someone who can help her neighbor. Most of the suggestions above will hopefully lead her in the right direction.

First I am going say that if this woman is bathing in urine, she must not be in her right mind. She may have dementia and is in need of immediate assistance. I would call elder abuse who will come to her and do an assessment on her mental state, contact relatives and most likely she will be placed in a nursing home. BTW, nursing care does not mean family does not want to be bothered. Caring for an elderly person takes its toll on the caregiver. Since this woman's family lives out of state, my thoughts are they are not keeping a check on her like they should be doing. She is living in inhumane conditions and I wouldn't wait another minute to contact someone, police will probably be there faster than anyone other agency. Bless you for caring enough to want to do something instead of turning a blind eye to the situation.

Sylvester,
I have seen so many very angry posts from you on many different topics. Why are you so angry? I posted a few very loving and gentle comments to you, and you went into rages. Do you see a therapist to help you with your caregiving difficulties? It can get very crazy caring for an elderly sick parent. In fact it can become downright maddening!!! If I didn't see my therapist once a week to help me cope, devise new techniques and vent to I'd probably be absolutely irate!!!! Anger usually comes from guilt, and sometimes we feel subconsciously guilty because we feel like we're not doing a good enough job. We ALL go through these crazy emotions that often don't make sense. We all feel a loss of control because we can't really do anything to make them well, and we often blame ourselves feeling this helplessness. The ONLY thing we can do is love them, be gentle with them with the understanding that they are easily upset and frightened. We are there to help make them feel safe. It's hard sometimes, I know believe me! Frustration, and impatience from having to cope with all the crap 24/7 with seemingly no end in sight gets unbearable. Try to take some more personal time for yourself. If you have to get someone in to watch her so you can get away and have some fun. Try to get some exercise each day even if it's 10 mins of fresh air. The best thing though would be to find a good therapist to help you deal with this situation. I have no support what so ever from my family; in fact my two sisters admittedly hate me. I have no spouse or children to help me either so I am basically alone. I get extremely lonely at times, and without the help of my therapist would probably be in the "bin" myself!!!!!!! I'm reaching out to you one more time in the hopes that some heartfelt suggestions might help you. Anger will only scare your mom, and mention of "police" must terrify her. Try to put yourself in her position. Really go into your mind, and think about how it must feel to be old, sick and helpless. It would completely suck. In Love and Light

wow Sylvester18, please note that the lady asking is no Spring chicken herself and probably is not well aware of what services and help is out there for her neighbor. In her day, people watched out for other people and this lady writing in is an angel. There are not many around anymore. Certainly, she can call the division of aging in her County and see what can be done. "If" she had the family's phone number I am sure she would have called them by now and we have no idea how close she is to the woman in question. Calling in a welfare call for an aged person to the police is NOT going to get this woman in trouble. It may just start the ball rolling to get her some help. 88 year old? Of course she may need help! Maybe just too proud or not knowledgable enough to know she needs it. Saverio, you are an angel and I wish you many more happy healthy years to come. YOU are why people have come to America.

Saverio,

You are indeed a very kind angel to help this poor lady. I can only imagine how terrible it would be to be 88 yrs old and all alone in this world. If I may ask, what ethnicity is this lady, and does she seem to have dementia? The reason I ask is because there are many eastern countries, particularly India, that use what's called Shivambhu (urine therapy). It is believed to be the body's own medicine, and many people bathe with it, use it for eyes in drop form and even drink it!!! I know it sounds very awful and taboo to us, but is very believed in for those who practice. It is considered to keep health, mental well being and good for the bones etc. in order to live a longer healthier life. I'm attaching a link for those who may be interested. Of course it is probably due to some dementia, but just because someone does not keep a clean house does not necessarily suggest dementia. Just a thought friends. Perhaps Saverio you might casually ask if she's ever heard of urine therapy. LOVE TO ALL

All these different opinions and solutions are what makes this website so interesting. To have the same question seen thru so many different eyes is helpful I think. Not every idea is usable in every problem, but it does give a person a different slant on their problem. Sometimes it's true, 'you can't see the forest for the trees'.

You people who are trying to argue or attempt to "reprimand " me make yourselves look like complete idiots. Go get lives.

sylvester, I think most people suggested that for the person to call social services or health department to check on the 88 yr old lady. How the you know she is even eating or what she is eating? Sweeping someone else's floor is not the solution to what the 'real' problem may be and if she didn't have any concerns for the lady she would had not even taking the time here to even post like most other people around this world. She was asking for advice on what she should do and it seems as if you are badgering her instead and that is wrong!

And from experience, my Aunt is 88 years old and cleaned her own gutters out last fall...

NO, I am not "way out of line" in my response. How do you know what this other 88 year old is capable of doing? You are way out of line by ASSUMING this person is unable to assist the neighbor. Please, from now on, post your opinion/comment to the question at hand and stop downgrading someone else's just because YOU don't agree with it. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and my above post happens to be mine.

Any and all of these answers are correct. I think lending a hand is the right thing to do. Just the fact that she is unclean should be enough to indicate an underlying problem. Good luck to you and let us know what happens!

I am taken aback by sylvester18's response. The person who wrote asking this question is 88 years old. Do you really think this person should be cleaning another's apartment? You are way out of line in your response.
I would call the local dept. of aging and explain the situation....Some of the suggestions above were good ones. Call a local news station. I live in NY. ABC. CBS or NBC would help with this woman's plight.

The time it took you to write this article about your neighbor you could have went in and swept up the floors and took the trash out...Obviously the woman has enough scuples to pay her rent on time, she is also obvioulsy in need of someone to lend a helping hand on housework. Who is getting her groceries? Are her utilities shut off? If not, she must have it set up that they are paid on a timely basis. She is obviously feeding herself. The ONLY people I would call would be her doctor to ask him to get her some home health care to assist her with her bathing. Just because she doesn't keep a clean house isn't grounds for nursing home placement. And just because someone is 88 years old, doesn't mean they are incompetent, unless a Judge deems them incompetent. HOME HEALTH will be able to judge what she needs and doesn't need.

I agree that you need to call Social Services that should get some action to her fast-just explain what you have told us and please keep us informed this is a teaching tool for others.

Sad as her condition is, it is not the landlord's fault or responsibility. It is also not elder abuse. I agree with those who say try to get in touch with her relatives. If you call the police and file a false report, you will be financially liable for their time and may end up in court. New York Social Services should be able to direct you to the Elder Care Division...that is a whole different parameter than Elder Abuse.

You can actually call the police and report that there is a terrible smell coming out of her apt. and that she is an older woman who lives alone. That you are afraid that she is dead. They will come and do the rest. They will contact the proper channels and will probably take her to the hospital. God bless you for being her angel. This is quick and easy. Being NYC you could call Social Services and ask about the department who handles elder abuse and make a report through them also.

my healthy friend of 88 was TAKEN from her home of 88 years.
she died soon after.
broken heart.

She is lucky to have a neighbor like you looking out for her. Your lucky to be so "with it" for your age and on the ball.I think you can call the health dept. or social services. The dept. of Aging. Maybe you could trick her landlord into giving you info on a relative. She must have someone for him to notify in case of any emergency. Tell him she lost or misplaced their phone number and she's gonna be short on "RENT" so you need to contact them for her. If he thinks he might be losing money, maybe he'll have an answer for you!!!!!!

You really need to step in for her own sake. Can you contact her kin folks out of state for the family really needs to know about her declining condition. If you cannot get reach her kin folks then I would call the health department to come out and check her condition to see if they can help her. She may not won't the help but she sounds like she is in no condition even know what is good for her anymore. Luckily, she has a neighbor that is concern for her. I hope you can reach a family member of hers first and if all else fail maybe the health department.

I would think the Dept. of health for the city should be called-the landlord should know how to get in touch with her family-they are probably paying her rent and since he is not doing anything about. The next time she asks for food ask her for the phone number of her family but I would call the dept. of health or a TV station -that would get results or the Mayor's office might be called-would any other tenents be willing to help or call the department of aging before she is found dead in her apartment -then the landlord will have to get off his duff. Maybe the clergy would help. Do not be afraid to get involved-you already are involved because you are aware of what is going on.

This is so very sad; is there any way you could contact her family who lives out of state? You are absolutely right; someone has to help her. It must be quite upsetting for you to see this happening to this poor woman.

On your computer, in the google section type in NYC Dept. of Aging. That is their website and you will be able to be directed as to who to call depending on where in New York City you live. If you need more help, just ask on this site again for help. Bless you and you are a good person to be concerned for this poor woman's condition.