How do you know when it's time for your elderly parent with dementia to go to a nursing home?

I hear a lot of guilt here. If our loved ones need a nursing facility, that should be the priority, right? Forget the family feuds and one upness that siblings have. It does no one any good. It is the care of our loved ones that is and should be foremost, not what we think they might be thinking or suffering about. If they need the nursing facility, let the guilt and sibling rivalry go and help the loved one realize the need. Put all your energy into positive thoughts and attitudes for him/her and realize that this is a good place. These professionals do good work. God bless you, my friend.

I am answering this because I totally screwed up with my wonderful mother and didn't realize my mistakes until later, and I have to live with them now. Maybe I can help someone else to not make the mistakes I made. Although I did not have POA, durable or health care, I was very influential regarding my mother's care because I was the one who was able to go see her and to stay for significant amounts of time in her assisted living community. I would go visit, help her with all her tasks, run errands, shop for her (which is always a problem for those who can't drive), and give her lots of love. Here was my mistake: I did virtually everything for her, so it appeared that all was well, but it was not. I did not observe her taking care of herself, and she simply could not do it. My doing her tasks masked the terrible problems she was having. Also, I didn't observe her taking her medications, and she wasn't taking them properly. An overdose of sleeping pills caused her to fall and really caused her death. Afterwards, I found out from her neighbors in the community that she couldn't take care of herself. I didn't even know. You can't imagine how awful I felt. So...my suggestion is to let your elder relative do what he or she would normally do and OBSERVE how they do it. My mother needed to be in a more restrictive setting, and I could have recommended that to my family, but I didn't even know. I hope this keeps others from making the same mistake. My ignorance contributed to my mother's death. Also, I should have had the nurses administering her meds; she was no longer competent. I hope this helps. The answer for me was so simple, but I didn't see the forest for the trees.

Yes, there are 2 sides to a poa, and as you can see, you are seeing the bad side - no one to make the poa accountable. I agree, the guardianship is accountable to a higher court and reduces the "power" of the guardian, but in the case of an out of control poa, one may have to resort to a higher power to reign them in.

Thanks for a no non sence answer as I am looking into this for my personal rights involed in a case like this as I am in need to know my rights as personly my brother moved out and moved his son in can I involve myself and move him out and me in as a dorect as the second son in line here as he has put my mother into a nuring home and one of their main subjects is taking her home from us as my brother who has POA does not seem to care and lied about the bills and other things and used my contious to get money that she actual paid .I did pay each month by check and noted it for my mothers home on it now all I need is money's and an honest attorney in this field.
Thanks again
Johnny T.

Depending upon the state in which you live, it might or might not be illegal. There is something called "a moment of sanity." With is, you must prove that your mother did not have a moment of sanity and only her doctor would be able to produce that.

No a POA is much better than guardianship because you have total unlimited power over the finances and medical decision making. Source-

This is interesting. My sister and I have been assisting my father in caring for my mother. You maybe could get an attorney and apply for guardianship, which I think would override a poa. A person is supposed to sign a poa or health care poa when they are competent. If your brother had your mother sign a form after her dementia diagnosis, that may be illegal.

BTW, there is an excellent book out there that helps you know when your loved one requires more care than you "alone" can provide, it's called,
"The 36-Hour Day: A Family Guide to Caring for People Who Have Alzheimer Disease, Related Dementias, and Memory Loss," by Nancy L. Mace & Peter V. Rabins. It's currently in it's 5th edition and was given to me by my father neurologist when he was diagnosed with dementia. It's paperback, less than $11 and an easy read!

There i no tall tale sign you just know in your gut.

For those of you with POA problems and having second siblings that wracking havoc with your parents, there is but one place to honestly go for real assistance; an Elder Care Attorney. There are many out there and before you go looking for one, I highly suggest that you learn more about them, as they specialize in various types of elder care. You want one that has expertise in many areas!
As a retired special needs advocate, I've seen this happen time and time again, and it's always nasty, usually winds up in court, if your sibling hires an attorney, if the two of you and your attorney's cannot work it out via mediation (which is much cheaper BTW!)
Nine times out of ten, it's due to property or money. It's never easy and you must have your ducks in a roll. Make certain you have any and all documentation that you can get your hands on, along with dates and facts! Some larger cities due offer pro-bono or reduced rates. You just need to check in your area.
One last thing; if you go this route, make certain you maintain a calendar of your own of who, when and where and how you spoke with someone, including the attorney. Reason: your loved one is the only one that matters regardless of how busy someone is, but be respectful.
You'll win more flies with honey than you will with vinegar.
PS I am the only family member caring for my elderly father, mother, husband, grand daughter and daughter who recently had to undergo a radical double mastectomy, at the age of 33, due to invasive ductile carcinoma. I totally understand your stress levels. That's why I'm retired and because I have so many people that I have to care for that rely on me to "make it all better!"

For me personally, the answer is never. I cared for my grandmother in my home for years during her long goodbye with Alzheimer's and Parkinsons. When I was born, my mother was sick and she helped care for us both. My family cared for me when I was growing up, when I was a helpless baby and I never let them down by sending them to assisted living or nursing homes. I realize not everyone is equally unselfish but I have never regretted it.

wow- similar sit.
its heartbreaking- and dangerous ,it can destroy your health- and more-
im still trying to deal with my sit-
i had poa for 12 yrs-brother said mom changed it and didnt want me as med poa
so, after she broke her leg-he took her from the hospital to mass.where he lives, and put her in a nursing home-i was prevented from getting
any info-medical- for almost a year-its been hell-for me and for mom-
i feel he took advantage of her illness- and has wanted her in a NH for yrs-
btw-he closed up the apt we all grew up in-had it for 55yrs-never told me he was doing that neverallowed me the decency of closing up the house--and still refuses to tell me what he did with the things or where they are-i also just recently found out, he lied about me no longer being med poa-
he never would show the document to me, and no one ever notified me or spoke to me about it-no lawyer-i found out because i was told i was NOT authorized to get her info-after going thru this horrible disease,doctors appts,emotions going wild,confusing information--walks, meals, etc -with her, when he wasnt availible-
for him to acte as if i no longer had any right to her info or care- is just crazy-and mean.-she had a horrible time when she first got there- although i never was told this until recently-
finally i went to the nh and was able to see the med poa-which wasnt an easy thing to do-since they have an attitude beause i always ask so many questions-demand to know details-etc
when i was shown the med poa-from afar- it was in a plastic in her chart-i realized that he never had med poa until the day she went into the NH -- that means i went thru excrutiating(sp) months of mental abuse,depression, a mental breakdown, extreme decline in physical health and that mom was without anyone who knew about her- all the personal and intricate details i could have given them it would have made itt so much easier for her- he claimed she was adjusting very well-bull-----she gave the a very hard time- of course- she was i a strange place,strange people, it is common knowledgethat change is very hard for people with dementia- plus she was always knew i was around-that i would help her if she was afraid- and now all she was familiar with was- gone-
the simple fact fthat i was treated like a stranger-and i was locked out of her care and info doesnt show me he had any concern about her care-mental-her feelings were ignored- i feel he had no right-but he did it anyway-its hard to let it go -but i am trying to put it all in perspective so that i am not destroying myself over something i can do nothing about-
i should have known better than to believe him--the simplen fact that he never showed it to me-doesnt keep me up to date on her conditions-
its a mess-
i get so upset-emotional- sorry to be going on and on and on- but it feels good to let this out-even if i am not being clear about what im saying-
thank god for this site-!!!!!!!!!
but i want u to know u have found a wonderful place to just let it all out-
i love this site and the people onit-
sending u hugs and love and positive energy
karen

I would like to add that my brother move out from her home to some where but doesn't want me to move in because he is coming back he says that mom isn't he has the power off attornet he say's I have never seen it I want my mom home but he has moved his 44 year old son in my father told me that the place would be an estate but with a few differences nothing on paper that I know of. Can I move him out and her back in I will take care of her .My brother claims alot but I am getting ready to fight over this as it not fair at all to ur is their a place to go and find out my rights before I do get realy real with him.He puts off showing paper work too.
Johnny T

oh p.s. I am the power of attorney, my sister is the alternate, they were not crazy about the idea of bringing him home. My mother still lives there and she isnt crazy about it either. Not sure how much help they are going to be to dad, but worth the try for some happiness I can give him as long as I can.

Wow, this scenario is just like mine, except with my dad. I am going to follow this if you don't mind, because I am in a similar situation, only difference is, I am taking dad home after a short term stay, even though the nursing home says he should stay long term. I have to try one more time, my dad is like your mom, everyday asking when he can go home, and he cries. He knows our family everytime we come, goes to the bathroom himself, just needs assistance with showering and getting around a bit. Just want to let you know, you are not alone in this situation.

I just want to continue this as I am in the same boat except my mother is already in the nursing home by my brother who says she is staying .She my mother eats and goes to the bath room on her own she knows me as soon as I walk in the door .What would be guide lines for her to stay their as she gets dehydraded with PEPSI COLA as my brother does not keep water handy for her to get use to and at her age that is important .My brother has the power of attorney .Can i over rode this in any poor persons way and take care of her as she thinks she is going home soon every time I go and see her and the nursing home seems to me to only want her stay because of my brother and mother or to take her home from us
Johnny T.