How get an unsavory character out of Grandma's house?

in MichelleHearts defence....every one has an opinion this is America ..this web site offers all to engage in free speech.....if you are that thin skinned ....don't read the comments....if we all thought the same most certainly we ..would be goverened by a dictator..relax ...kick back...and have a beer...

lighten up Michelle I'm sure you have read all the helpful advice on this problem including calling APS .

I really don't need to be attacked by you ma'am. If I could I would delete my message. I still wonder who is taking care of this 97 yr. woman!! If I were a social worker I would be quite alarmed! Calling Adult Protective Services might be a good idea. You would find out exactly where you stand and do something constructive. Good luck.

wow I think I'd rather reread war & peace.

ctmom,
Guess some readers here failed to read what you wrote about this--that one response from Michelleheart was really out-of-line!

What you describe is very hard to deal with--especially at long distance.
There are quite a number of great ideas as to what to do--I liked Lori1943's suggestions.

Do you have POA?
If not, why not?
IF there is no POA, it's a good idea to get it done...BUT...it will not help if Mom gets riled up over you in conflict over her grandson & his woman living there....please try to keep things calm until a POA can be achieved.

If Mom gave POA to grandson, then he can do what he thinks is right, legally, unless it can be shown/proved he does stuff that might be seen as endangering or abusive of an elder--that is an APS report issue.

Contacting the woman's parole officer, or at least clueing law where she is--she may be violating her parole. That she was caught taking C/C and charing large sums on it from another old lady, shows she may be up to that again. Therefore, it's real important that something be done fast, to try to prevent Mom's assets from being taken--the State might even view that very badly--
--State welfare does NOT like being ripped off, either---any elder who gets ripped off so that it causes that elder to require State Aid, well, DSHS might be interested in helping prevent that from happening.

Call her local police dept.; request "well-checks" be made--sometimes weekly.
Cops go to house, check on person named, report what they find.
It has to be written up in the police reports, usually, but there might be some glitches to this---you might have to call her local police via their regular phone lines, instead of dialing 911, since you are located far away.
So, make sure you tell them to please file a written report about it, so a file will be started on it.
Files accumulate, then can be referred to APS, which helps them make some determinations.

If a pattern of unsavory things is noted, or if police or APS see health issues, safety issues, etc., there may be grounds for APS moving her out of there to somewhere safe,
OR, if something illegal is going on there that police can see, smell, hear, they may have grounds to nab grandson and/or his woman.

Safety of the elder comes first.
Watching out for her assets comes second, but it still ranks.

If Mom still has all her faculties, you may have difficulty removing her from her home--even for an extended "vacation", if she understands you might be trying to move her outta there due to grandson & his woman. It will require all your most conciliatory communication skills to do something like that....& you may not want to move her in with you--you may want to just honestly take her on a vacation--something pleasant.

You need to learn if there is any legal arrangement allowing grandson to stay in her house. Is he helping her, or just free-loading because he can't find work and pay for his own shelter?

Is his woman there in some useful capacity? IF so, her parole officer needs to know--if she is outside her parole area, or, if she is doing work or residing in ways that violates the terms of her parole, THAT is a problem for her.
...and could get her yanked outta there faster.

It's common for parolees to have a tough time finding housing they can afford, or that allows them to live there. She may have had relationship with grandson for some time, to be able to move into grandmas' house that easily.
Which brings some question onto grandson's motives/actions.

OTH....he may be OK---many friends & family still love their jailbirds, and can't bear to force them to make their own way in the world....tough love...so many families cannot bear to do that; it usually results in helping offenders keep repeating, unless and until they learn how to make their own way honestly.
But her living with another elder?
That is just tooooo tempting since she already was charged with that in past.

=Document everything.
=Keep up with her local police, to make sure they keep repeating well-checks, and writing up what they find.
=Contact that woman's parole officer and/or their local police to get them on it.
=If Mom is still classed as being competent, but is having some glitches in her reasoning and such, document those, and perhaps approach her Doctor, to see what can be done from there, explaining what is going on.
=Once some well-checks have been done, contact APS &/or Social Services, to report what is happening.
=Keep on it.
=Keep visiting, and keep things as friendly as possible, to prevent them getting nasty as a pre-emptive move against you.

Good luck!

Go to the police, if like our experience you get ZERO help, immediately, immediately, immediately, get a court order to oust him. Do not tally, learn from our appalling experience.
Otherwise, you will find trouble at every turn.

Actually, you can havae the locks changed--who is taking care of your mom while the hip heals? Loans/financial exploitation=elder abuse. Also, the lady has no right to change locks on your mother's residence (something additional to report)..what is her reason for doing so? Docment from this day forward date/time/conversation...report to elder abuse agencies with bullet points of your concerns and evidence (can you present documentation about loans?) Will your mother cooperate with you or side with the lady?

Who owns the house/title? check into that and all financials/will?burial/trust/name of MIL attorney etc

Get POA for financial at least and protect MIL's assets --once the $$ is gone it is gone so preventative measures are needed. You might have to go into town and have this done with MIL with you--it might be hard to do from a distance

Who has the POA? If it is the 42 yr old grandson, I think he will be influenced by his new love interest. Was the grandson a caregiver or living off the 97 yr old grandmother? Will he put his grandmother's needs ahead of his own.

If he wants to live with or marry this individual, they are both of legal age so her moving her stuff in the home would happen. The criminal record, how extensive or not it is --would be my big concern.

If you fear for the 97 yr olds safety, you could take her with you or move her somewhere like the NH or ALF. If the home is sold to cover the cost the couple would need to move on with their lives as another address.

i remember before i moved back here, dad had trouble with mike ( son) and his druggie buddys here. i told him to start inviting his old hunting buddies over for BBQ on sunday they are former police officers.
that may not work for you, but the premise is the same. if shes like i think she is, im sure she has a probabtion officer. contact local law enforcment see if she has warrents. i personally would simply get grandma out of there. 97 yr olds, no matter how strong, are no match for 2 scandolous people. set up nanny cams.. get grandma into a better place. once the rent runs out, the scum will scurry away to rip off someone else.

It is correct to question, and trust your instincts in this matter. We are constantly trained in our field whether it be in a Nursing Home, or caring for Seniors at their home. One of the videos that they show us gets across the message, that we are all the eyes and ears to help protect the elderly. If a neighbor, family, elderly person's friend, mailman, CNA notices bruises, money disappearing from accounts, personal belongings disappearing, lack of food in the refrigerator, dehydration, or anything that can compromise, even a "hunch" or "gut feeling" that something is wrong, it is extremely important to report it.

I don't know what state, or county in your state that you are located in, but one such agency is HHSA (Health and Human Services). Look up the one where she lives under State, & the correct county. There will be an 800 number. You can report anything, even your hunch, and it will remain completely confidential. Do you know any of her neighbors? Can you also give that neighbor the number too? Also tell them, that it will remain strictly confidential, and their name and what they report will NOT be disclosed.

Next, a social worker will be assigned to the case, to go to the home to investigate. If she/he notices any signs of the above mentioned forms of abuse, that person will notify the correct authorities. The correct authorities will contains: police, probation, lawyer for the elderly, and so forth. If you call the probation department directly the individual in question will be aware, and you don't want to alienate your grandson, and that may not be confidential.

This is a complicated situation, since it is not only the person in question, but involves 2 people, one of which is your grandson.

If HHSA decides she is committing an act of abuse (financial, physical, emotional, ADL's - food, water, bathing), she will be removed from the premises by law enforcement and arrested.

The next step will be the hardest. If your grandson will still be living there, a lawyer will be needed. He may let her back into the house, since they are married. A lawyer will have to take steps further, since it is not one person, but two. He will have to find another place to live, since he is allowing a person into the house that is not in the best interest of your Grandma. If he will willingly move out, than that is fine, if not, that is where it becomes complicated.

Next a CHHA agency will need to have people to go help your Grandma with food, bathing, cleaning, doctor's appointments, etc.

If both individuals are out, and no longer living there, the locks must be changed immediately.

Please follow through on this, if your "gut feeling" is correct, than you were justifiably "the eyes and ears" for your Grandma. If it turns out that she is perfectly fine, than no harm was done.

These are the modern bonnie & clyde types. Wait until he wakes up one day and bonnie will be gone looking for greener pastures........having been a nurse for 47 yrs. nothing surprises me ...wishing you some relief soon....

Thank you for your comment about the person above who made the nasty comment. I know for myself, I have NOT neglected my mom....I have been very involved, but live an hour away. I thought the lady in her building was obnoxious but helping...and only recently found out what she is up to. Since that discovery, I have become more involved for sure...but that does not mean that I was neglectful before. I can only assume the same is true for the person who originally started this topic. We all do the best we can given the circumstances we are in. That nasty comment was so inappropriate and made no sense...nothing about what the person said suggested that she may have been neglectful and no reasonable person could argue that the grandson and lady friend are taking advantage of the elderly woman. It is a difficult and gut wrenching situation but then to be insulted by a stranger on top of everything else is ridiculous.

This is a dreadful and dangerous situation and Grandma clearly is not competent to make these decisions. Scammers are very good at cultivating the trust of their victims, and it appears that is exactly what has happened here. In addition to contacting "Adult Protective Services" in your area (use that as a search term to access the appropriate information), this is also a police matter because of the "lady's" pending criminal case. Go to the police to discuss this in person, get their advice, and perhaps file a formal complaint. In addition, and this is very important, you can find out where the "lady's" current criminal charge is pending; you can ask the police to look it up for you, or you can go to the criminal clerk of court's office in your county and look the case up--this is all public record). Then contact the County Attorney or District Attorney or whatever that office is called in your area (the police will know who and were this is), and tell them also about your concerns about this "lady," or in their terms, "the Defendant." They may not only be able to help, but this information is probably pertinent to the case they have pending against the Lady/Defendant, and I guarantee they will want to hear what you have to say and talk to you about this. And, finally, ignore cranky nay-sayers like "MichelleHeart" above who is not involved in this situation, knows absolutely nothing about it, and has no business trying to butt in to guilt-trip you. Grandma's welfare is at at stake here; you cannot ignore this situation. Love and prayers.

Btw, when my father passed away, we took my mother on "vacation" and never took her back to her home. It was the most heartbreaking thing we ever had to do but if we had left her in her home the niece would have moved in and my mother would be dead by now. Sometimes tough love is the only way to solve problems like this. There are a lot of unsavory characters out there looking to take advantage of the elderly. We need to protect our own.

Hi Ctmom,

We had a niece that my mother raised that was an unsavory character. After she became an adult she left her first child to be raised by my mother. The girl was my niece’s leverage in manipulating my mother for mother and babysitting her other children. The niece ended up spending all of my mother’s money. Stole some of my dad’s funeral money and half of my mom’s jewelry.
I lived 11 hours away from them but went once a month to make sure all was being taken care of.
I gradually took over their finances. My mom with dementia wasn’t paying bills and they had liens on the house. At the same time I put the squeeze on the niece.
The problem was that my mom kept giving her blank checks and her ATM debit card. The girl spent money like it was hers. I filed with APS, CPS and filed forgery charges against her. The problem was that my mother always defended her and none of the authorities would do anything unless my mother pressed charges.
It’s a horrible situation to be in. Watching someone else take advantage of your mother.
If you have DPOA it helps.
You need to start documenting everything. Report everything. Make sure there is a paper trail for all activities. Get on your mom’s checking account and don’t allow her to have a debit card or checks. Who is paying the bills for her? If it is the grandson it is going to be difficult to change or take control of the situation.
I wish you the best and my heart goes out to you. The elderly are so very vulnerable to people. We don’t get to choose our family. Develop a friendship with her neighbors to call you whenever they see something happening that shouldn’t. Or hire someone to look in on her periodically.

You guys have a lot of nerve talking about and elderly person that you have probably ignored and neglected yourself, who really needs care as being taken advantage of! It take a lot of time and love to take care of such a person. If they can pay for it they had better! The lady in question may or may not have committed a crime....she is not yet convicted and there are many mistaken accusations given to caregivers. Either commit your mother to a convalescent home now (she is 97) and use your legal leverage, or just watch credit cards. If she has been arrested she cannot use them. The grandson can however, and has a legal right as caregiver to do so. If this lady is convicted, she will be gone shortly. At 97 someone who needs care has a totally different view of things than you do.

I signed my part of house deed to my son so he would have no problems when i'm gone...I have life time dower rights to live here...well because I was responsible for this good deed the house was his asset . The upshot is he and his wife filed for chapter 7 ...I must pay his $25.000 bankruptcy ...also can put me through this again....so forget the 1 good deed deserves another saying....now I know why people run screaming down streets for no apparent reasons.....

Hi ctrmom,
I feel your pain. My 90 mother has been being taken advantage of by a lady that lives upstairs from her. My sister and I have always had aclose and involved relationship with mom, but since this lady lives in the same building and we children are an hour and two hours away, we have let this lady help my mom. My mom pays her to do her cleaning, laundry and grocery shopping. The lady has insisted over the past few years that she wants to do this. This lady has always been very pushy...but is wasn't until recently that we discovered that she is taking advantage of mom. She has taken 2,000$ worth of "loans" and has not paid any back (and can't...she has all kinds of trouble with money it turns out). My mom can not afford to be giving loans but feels so grateful to this person because she has been so "good" to her...Meanwhile this lady is doing things like threatening to change my moms locks so the family can't get in, etc. too many stories to tell here. She is taking money from my mom and her elderly friend who my mom is POA for....it's awful and I am not sure what to do about it. My mom knows about all of the awful things this lady has done....and is upset about it ....but then will always say "but she has been very good to me." She has been totally brainwashed. My mom recently fell and broke her hip. I am hoping to use this opportunity to get my mom to live somewhere else....I have to get her away from this lady. I really want to get her out of moms life. I do not know how to help someone when you know they are being used (and have proof) but they are complacent about it. Any suggestions appreciated....do I call elder services? Can I get a restraining order? What can I do? This lady does now know I am watching and I am taking on POA of mom....I hope to stop money from going to this lady because I know she is using mom and her friend as her own personal ATM!

Based on the information that you have stated, please,please contact the Adult Protective Division is the area you live in. Does grandson have access to MIL accts? Who takes care of MIL bill paying? To get someone out of the house you usually need to give them a 30 day notice however, if she is out on bail you might want to contact law enforcement with the fact that she has moved into another home with an elderly person and you fear the same will happen. If your husband has the POA for grandmother he can with the help of law enforcement remove her from the home. If not usually a good threat to MIL should get her to agree to move this lady out. If MIL thinks that you will have her conserved because she is not making good judgements should wake her up. Take MIL home with you for a while so that you can protect her and get that woman out.

I agree that you need to contact a DHS or Agency for Aging case worker to investigate. They may find that she needs some assistance as far as caregivers, therapy, etc. This will give another set of eyes to see what is really going on in that house. Also, find an elder care lawyer to be sure her deed to her house and will are in proper order. Be sure that any credit card companies are made aware of the situation and that the bank accounts are protected from this "lady" and the grandson. Who has financial and health POA for your mother? See if you can get it.

At 97 her judgement could be impaired. Bless her heart! I would encourage you to get a local DHS person, report this as expected abuse they will go and check on her and be very concerned trust me! take care

That is why the elderly are so vulnerable to scams. They are often lonely and often have impaired judgement. To oust the lady is to oust the grandson, the problem is not grandma, the problem is grandson. He may be using grandma. Very sad. Unless you can provide a AL lifestyle that grandma will agree to, or other accompanied living arrangements, she is pleased to share with grandson and his lady friend.....beats being alone. I hope they are taking care of her at least.

Concentrate on protecting mom's accounts, if giving up closet space does not bother her, do not let it bother you. If having this woman run her house is acceptable to her, do not let it bother you. Monitor the situation. Unless gran is incompetent, if she chooses to have roommates she may do so.

I am not saying you do not have just cause for worries, but I believe the problem is the grandson, for bringing this woman into his grandmmother's house.
Did 43 move in to take care of granny or because he wanted a free place to live?
Is this lady the sort of person he typically hangs with? IF he is a freeloader, is it a surprise he hooked up with this sort of person? Is he just being vulnerable and can he be open to an intervention? Monitor the situation for fraud and report if you find evidence. Let them know you will be looking.

Since you do not describe grandson as your son, assume he is a nephew. Where are his parents?