What are the limits of a sibling taking money from our parent?

Oops....before the state or nursing home get it all. The problem is my mother-in-law is in the nursing home on medicaid and my father- in-law is a community spouse who needs his money.

Considering that if your mom ever needs long term care services and has to rely on medicaid the state will do a 60 month look back (in IL your state could be different). The state will assess a penalty for any transfer they feel is inappropriate (such as the money your mom is gifting to your sister). If this happens the state can refuse to pay for your mom's care until the money is recouped AND the nursing home can ask your mom to leave.

We too are having issues with two of my husband's siblings who feel Dad should transfer moneyto them

Some parents don't realise how they cripple their children, especially children that are married with children who still completely relay o their parents. I've never seen anything like it. I've olaways wonderded how is it that people take advange fro good hearted peolp like this who will do anything even for a stranger but now it makes perfect sense they own grown ass, married children take advantage of them. Who will ever learn to make sure your house and family is sorted out before throughing alcohol party every weekend and then dont have money or food in your house if mommy will make a plan and never see you suffer, what session can one learn if you know mommy will always bail you out! mommy will see what wrong choices you make and not say anything and will just be there to lend a hand when the popo hides the fence. What parent with a child will care when grandma is always willing to babysit everyday so you can go party with your friends every night, If things come so easy why would you want to grow up and take responsibility for yourself. Tiss to me is a reminder of why I do my own thing and been doing me

this is sad!

Elder financial abuse by family members is highly common. It is seldom to never prosecuted. If you are POA for finances, it is your obligation to deal with this problem on a going forward basis. Try to forget the past. Consult a specialist who can devise a financial plan to take care of your mother for the remainder of her life. Get your mother to buy into the plan. If she doesn't, then decline to continue to accept the role of POA for finances. If there is any surplus money, than it is your mother's decision on how to distribute it.

Advice, do your parents understand that they may need their assets to fund their care as they age? Has anyone ever gone with them to an eldercare attorney to make out poa, advance directives and a will?

Yes, if they are competent, they can do as they please. But you might tell them, calmly and not in a fit of anger, that they will be ineligible for assistance down the road due to gifting of their assets. And that you will not be available to provide care. Find out how much Assisted Living and Nursing Homes cost in your area.

Sorry, I typed this in the wrong place. I have no helpful answers.

My parents are 86 yrs. old. They have always given my younger sister money to bail her out of every financial disaster because she has a bad marriage, which is now over 26 years. My sister and brother-in-law trained their daughter to get money from Grandma and Grandpa(my parents). They bought her a horse and pay $575 a month to stable it. This has been going on for more than 8 years. My mothers health has been up and down and she is losing her eyesight. My mother and father allowed this 23 year old granddaughter and her boyfriend to move in with them rent free, grocery free, housekeeping free (my Dad cleans the house and cleans up after them and their dog. My Dad complains but does nothing to move them out. Instead we hear how hard poor granddaughter has had it with her mean Dad. (A story I heard about countless strays my sister brought home while living with my parents to the ripe old age of 30...rent free). There is so much more but I can't deal with it. Needless to say I have been coping with my feelings and biting my tongue for over 4 decades. My other nephew and his wife have been a godsend and love my parents and want to help. Unfortunately, we are stopped from any of it because anything we want to do would not benefit poor granddaughter. We have called Social Services, but they say that as long as the folks are of sound mind, there is nothing we can do. Did I mention they live on my Dad's pension and their social security. The only asset they have is their house, and it is small and inexpensive. There is no inheritance that will be coming from them, so this is not about money. Just tired of them being taken advantage of. At what point do I contact a lawyer? Trying to talk to the ones taking advantage does no good. Tried it many times. Tried talking to my parents many times. Should I just give up trying?

Building on to their house to create appropriate areas for your mother was a reasonable thing to charge to her. Just about. Also nothing actually *wrong* with their voicing an opinion that your mother did not have to give you any equivalent sum, partly given that at that time you didn't have any expense related to her but mostly given that your mother could perfectly well have told them to get stuffed and done as she pleased, if she'd chosen to.

Do you mean that your mother lived with you in your townhouse for six years, or that she lived for six years staying occasionally with you but for the main part with your sister and BIL? It sounds like the latter. $2500 per month sounds plenty but not outrageous, particularly not if it was well within your mother's means. If you didn't think your home was a good environment for your mother, you could have said so, you know. There are other options for respite care, when your sister needed alone time, which every caregiver does need.

Basically... Your sister and her husband provided your mother with a good home, in a lovely place, for over six years, and claimed from her legitimate expenses. I'm not even sure what you were consulting a lawyer about.

My sister and husband are very well off and asked Mom to live with them in their large house by the water. After a year, they told her she needs to give them 60k for an addition. She was going to give me the same and call it an early inheritance. Sister interceded, they got the addition and told Mom to not give me any. She caved, Then they wanted her to stay with me (I have a townhouse, Mom with end-stage COPD) they also were receiving $2500 month from Mom, they told her they thought she eas going to die in 6 months and they were entitled to this, she lived 6 years. My lawyer says that i cant do anything about this if she was competent. I am so hurt by Mom not standing up for herself or me. They would tell Mom to find a place to go when they wanted to be alone....Mom physically suffered with my stairs. I offered to stay there but they wanted their house to themselves.

Eddie- You are timely. I leave tomorrow to drive to have a "Financial intervention" with siblings and mediators and case managers. I hope to have conclusive plan before the end of the year in order to stop the pilfering and save some money for my old Momma! Thank you for your care and follow up.
/hugs

File a gift tax return with the IRS, form 709 and tell them in detail how much the recipient has received. LOL, that will fix her wagon!!

there is no limit

You need to provide proof to your Mother of what money in the past your Mother gave to your Sister. Add it all up and show it to your Mother and see how she feels then? Keep in mind, if your Mother is compatent? She can do what she desires with her funds until you step in a her Durable POA. But, if she is compatent. Nothing you can do until a doctor tells her otherwise. What some would say to do is, to take your Mother to a doctor to be found incompatent. Then, activate your Durable POA. Then you have control of your Mother's spending. Until that happens your stuck watching your sister drain your Mother's funds. Sounds like you must be a springing POA? You need to read your POA paper work?
I'm going thru some what the same problem as you are.I'm my Aunt's Durable POA. But, my Aunt is compatent to do what she wants to do. I'm moreless seating back waiting for my Aunt to do something wrong. She pays her bills but, with her dementia causes other problems. For me it's a waiting game. Sounds like it's a waiting game for you as well. The hardest thing for me is to attempt taking my Aunt to her doctor to be told not compatent. If it was me told not compatent I would disown the feller that told the doctor to do so lol.
If your your Mother's POA?
Simply go to her bank as her POA and ask for past bank statements for your proof. Show the other brothers and Sisters your Mother's bank statements as proof your sister's sucking money from your Mother.
Regardless,if your Mother is compatent? It's your Mother's Money. She can do what she see's fit with her money until you act.If your your Mother's Durable POA?
You will be required to count for any money missing if/when Medicaid gets involved.
As long as your Mother is compatent? Your sister can drain her dry.

WOW I have almost the same problem except my brother has now moved into her house, She can't say no. I have always been her sole support escept financially. I have told her I will no longer clean her house while he is there, I will not clean up after a 60 y/o man who is just there to manipulate and extort. What other options are there?

Right on psteigman! Cancel the ATMs talk to mom about a reasonable allowance for mom and then have mom transfer most funds to various term CDs. Make it impossible for sister to keep bleeding her. Get a financial advisor to come over and speak with mom and you about planning moms future and having money available for moms long term care and expenses. Does mom realize that if she needs a care facility it could be $4500/mo? Does she realize the cost can rocket to $8000 or more for good NH care should she need it? What does mom think will be left in estate for remaining family when she gives it all to sister?

At the very least, all funds given to sister should be accounted for and addendum drawn up to estate will stating that this $$ will be deducted from sisters share of the estate in the end...provided any is left.

I would tell her she isn't getting one more dime and if she needs money, get a second job, a roommate or sell the house and move someplace she can afford.

Your sister is an addict if she needs $450 a week. Cancel all ATM cards, pronto. Meet with the other sisters and agree on a strategy, which may mean an intervention, or no more ATM cards, but whatever it is you must all be on the same page. If you are united and talk to mom about NOT enabling the addict, she may agree with your plan to cure the problem. It won't be easy.

i have a sister whose a money hole. when my mother got 'helpless' i asked her to give me the checkbook. ( one of two ) . sister was treated well but her sick judgement might have prompted mom to buy her a house nearby. cappy kept everyone on their toes. all a bluff, lol..

You are right, Eddie. I feel a big cat fight coming on!

Mom has seen sister's house. It is messy and bigger than Mom's house.
Sister is the eldest and only one in town with Mom. Mom just cannot say "No". Tempting to ask sister how she plans to exist at this pace once she does not have supplemented income. That is only way I have thought of to ask in a "I care about you." manner.

I think Mom sees me as only one who can handle the situation with sister always asking "Please Mum, may I have a little more?" I will be able to say No, but I see my mother being taken advantage of now and limiting what she does in order to supplement the "tick".

Any recommendations about how to approach the sister who is pressuring mother aside from a boxing match? I do have my gloves on and hair tied up tho!!!

If you know the times when your sister is going to be home, show up at her doorstep for a candid chat in the early evening. And bring Mom with you so she can actually see how well your sibling is living thanks to her $.

Your Mom has a soft spot for her, probably because she's either the eldest or the runt. But until she learns to say "No" and mean it, sis over there will keep taking advantage and leave you to deal with the wreckage.

Roll up your sleeves and tie your hair up. This one might get ugly.

Thanks for replies. Mother is competent for the most part; she has hired help with her most days. She will not confront the sister and if she did she would back down when others were not there. Most of her bills are on auto payment, but again she will cower to the pressure of the needy. No one else in same town who could arrange money for her and she thinks she can handle things 100% and doesn't want to loose the freedom to get cash from ATM or make her own decisions. I have all bank records. No agency will assist with possibility of theft since she is her own POA.
Maybe I need to go to counseling to reconcile my anger at sister for taking advantage of mother with pleas of sister being a single mother and all her hardships. Would that help? Worth a try?
Thanks for support.

get bank records such as I had done to show evidence of your sister stealing your mothers monies from her account without asking.

Can you become the "bad cop?" Get ahold of your mother's checkbook and have her tell Sis that you won't let her get at her money any more. Pay all her bills yourself. Is there anyone in town who could give her a small amount of cash every week, to be reimbursed by you, but no more? It sounds tough.

I don't know if there is anything you can do if your mother is competent. It doesn't look like your sister has the shame to stop. I had an alcoholic brother who bled my parents for years. I didn't realize the full extent of it until I took over their finances and started shredding documents. During some years my mother was giving them over $20,000 to pay rent and do other things. They paid for my brother's daughters education on top of that. I used to tell my mother to stop, that she was hurting my brother and not helping him. But my words fell on deaf ears. My father came to hate my brother. He didn't want to give him money, but couldn't get my mother to stop. It is a bad situation, but if your mother is competent only she can say no. The end result with my brother is that, despite all the help with money, he lost his family, his home, and died when he was 57. I wonder if his life could have been better if some tough love had been administered. He never had to grow up because his mother was always bailing him out. So he drank himself to death.