My Dad had dementia and gave my cousin POA. She took 57,000 from his account. Can she do this?

Executrix is correct for a female, and Executor is for a male or can also be used for a female when the court or attorneys do not know what gender you are. I have a typically male name and am always described as male.

Ok, if you have POA you can take money out of the account if the bank lets you and it has to state that you are POA on the account and only that money is used for the person who has named you POA. You must document everything you use in relation to the person who has named you POA and it must be used on that person.. My suggestion is to seek an Elder Lawyer.

I was given that term when my mother passed away, executrix, done so by my lawyer! I prefer just one term myself, but given to personal experience, this is what I went thru and given as a term.

Actually in the instance of a will executor is the term whether its a male or female.....its whos the person whos been named to execute the deceased will.

She can do this, as having total control of all your fathers finances and health control. However, there is a fine line as to what she really can do, as this would be considered abuse of power if she is just taking the money and running with it. If the money was spent on your father that is different. However, its a bit confusing, has your father passed? I asked this as its seemly a bit confusing to say she will be POA after he will passed... A executrix would be the name of whom a woman is called when left in charge of an estate, after a loved one has passed. It't not easy making decsions for a loved one, and hoping to make ends meet. Taking money from one account and putting into another is ok, if the money is being used to make payment on bills, food, household items, etc... that is if its for your father. Does your cousin live with your father? Just curious, as income from her and his accounts can be joined, but still she has this right as POA. However, if you feel this is more then helping your father out, using the acct. to pay his bills or both if she lives there, then you need to report this. IF you have access to his bank account, you can question, but if the bank is aware of the POA, they will not allow anyone, unless law enforcement is involved, tell anyone about your fathers finances thru that bank. My husband got upset with me, when I use his credit card to make payments and get gas and pay bills along with my income, as it was before he was disabled, I still need his income to make ends meet. He wonders with the money is, problem is, he makes allot less money on disability, then when he worked, and Im trying to make ends meet, and I do move his money to my acct. however, it's for both of us, and its on record as doing so. Some times we do take some time out to do some nice things, but he is aware of it. As long as the bills and rent and other payments are made he is happy. Its not easy to be the one who does all the work, and decide how it will go each day how to spend money that is not much to spend. I do hope your cousin has your fathers best interest in stride, and perhaps you need to ask her if and what is going on.

DK daughter told me that I was wrong and check out my facts before posting, If you will go to the IRS they will tell you the same that I put in my emails about the gift limits. And the person receiving the monies will have to pay taxes on it. It has to be reported as income on the receiver of these moneys, if she didn't report it, the family will need to turn her in to the IRS. In other words, she can't keep the monies after the death of the individual. The cousin as to prove what she spent on the dad and the rest has to be returned to family.

And I have also checked my facts about the accounts. I said it depends on if the dad's name was on the account or not.

SO I HAVE CHECKED MY FACTS. This is also what my attorney has told me.

Im in canada so may be different.....i & my sister are poa for my dad and we are also executors.....i put 31thousand in a tax free savings account with my dads & my name only.....for 2 reasons one he dosnt have to pay taxes on any interest earned....and when he passes that money would revert to me so I can continue to pay for his bills as I dont have the means to pay them and wait till all is settled to get it back....what is left over will be split between the 4 of us.....im just an honest daughter / sister who would never steal from my dad or siblings. So before jumping to any conclusions all i can say is ask questions on the cousins intentions....write something out and have them & u sign it so everyone knows whats truly going on. Best of luck that ur cousins intentions are good ones. Xo

Also, most POA are for health care when a person can not make a decision for himself or herself about a life threatening decision, I believe it is the same for monies.

Once Dad has passed the executor takes control of all monies and bills, if Dad's is not on the account those monies will be considered a gift and this gift is over the IRS limits. Turn that cousin to the IRS, and if Dad's name is on the account then the executor has control of those monies and distributed these monies per the will or trust.

My dad has passed but if my mom needs the monies that dad gave us as a gift, I have to pay back or if the State needs it they will take all of the monies that he gave us.

I had to consult my trust attorney when my parents came to live with me and I was trying to help them protect their monies.

But it is illegal for cousin to keep the monies after dad's death. Those monies was only provided for cousin to make emergency financial decision for his needs while he is alive.

You should get control of the monies ASAP or the cousin will move it or say that she spent it, then you will have to sue her for what ever assets she has left, as say house, car, furniture jewelry etc.

But if account has both names, the cousin has to provide the bank with his death certificate, to get his name off of that account. So cousin can't move the monies until cousin provides those items. I had to do this with our banks after my dad's death, so I would assume that all banks require the same.

Debbie

The way I'm reading it is that she put it in an account of another person for whom she is also POA and that this third party knows about it. Definitely need a lawyer on this one.

I would consult a lawyer. I have had to deal with a similar situation, but my parents have a trust. Does your dad have a trust, or a will?

First mom and dad can not give any person over $13,000.00 without consequences per IRS. IRS says for an individual to not be taxed a gift is no greater than $13,000 A YEAR to a single person as long as he signs a gift letter, a form especially for a gift.

So since Dad's name is still on the account the $57,000 is part of his estate. Without a will or trust, the family can go to court and sue the cousin.

I would definitely consult an attorneys advice.

Hope that helps, Debbie

Being a POA requires that person be honest and report to the Court where monies are spent. Get all documents to prove she took that money for herself, and sue her.

Ater his death the POa has no power, the executor does. This happened with my sister. She had Dad sign her as POA and didn't tell anyone. And my name was on it too and I never knew. She took over $30,000.00 from him. She was ticked when he died and thought she still was POA and had power instead of me. Needless to say the rest of us kids have disowned her.

Is the POA a financial POA....or just a health care POA? There's a major difference. A healthcare POA has NO control or rights over funds/money.....just medical decisions IF the person is incapacitated.

No one has stated they a estate attorney
So please do yourself a favor and hire attorney
that deals with this type of thing and settle
It illegally. Just my opinion I think she took
advantage, so get legal advice. Good Luck

I agree with whatsagripper. You need to talk to a lawyer specialized in that area. Find out what is legal and what is not. It may be that the POA is selfish and won't pay what is fair and there is nothing you can do about it, but if your dad was coerced it's a different story. I really hope you will keep us posted as to what happens. I'm not sure what's legal or not. Hope this helps!

If she can document she used the money for his benefit, its okay. I am my mother's POA and have used her money to make it easier for her to live an get around in my home since I am taking care of her. I did not ask her about many of these changes because she has dementia and is mostly interested in foolishness.

If she uses the money for her benefit or if the account is only in her name then it's a problem. As a poa you have the power to spend the funds, open and close accounts, however the funds should be used for the benefit of the person in question. You can contact your local Adult Protective Service worker who can advise you, you can also contact an attorney. I advocate for specific requests or directions to be added to legal documents so there is no question on what should be done. Make a will, have a power of attorney but be specific with your directions/requests. You can consult an attorney or specialist that handles elder law, wills & power of attorney. Your dad had a specific plan in mind and that's how things should be handled. As a poa, I would keep separate records of every expense etc, just in the event anyone questions the disbursements. Call your local Area Agency on Aging or Bureau of Senior Services for more info on poa's etc.

Yet another unfortunate situation...

We've been there.

Yes, consult with a lawyer. In fact, if you can, you probably should speak to two or three. You may find a range of opinions that you'll have to weigh out, blend, etc.

Yes, track the money.

Yes, someone can attempt to file charges if he or she can show a crime has been committed. That's most likely the role of the executor of the will who would have access to any and all bank records with a little leg work and can act in the estate's interest.

Before going any further, investigate what is and what is not elder abuse and an abuse of a Power of Attorney in your state. Know the facts as they relate to your specific situation before continuing. Don't necessarily trust what any professional wants to spin your way. Whomever in the family is going to deal with this needs - most likely the executor - to be ready to be an informed advocate.

Some things to keep in mind in terms of questions to ask yourself and others -

Was your dad competent when he signed the POA giving power to your cousin? Dementia may or may not make your dad incompetent. That's the key to whether or not the POA was valid in the first place. If a reputable attorney drafted and assisted, then that professional likely (but not necessarily) did a competency test as part of the process. If the POA was not valid, there is a process to challenge it but that will cost money out of pocket unless you can show a crime that your city/county/state chooses to prosecute. As an aside, anyone can tell you, "this is a crime!" but it's really up to a prosecutor's office at some level to both agree and decide that it's grieveous enough to warrant their time. Don't be too shocked if what you think is horrible just isn't bad enough...depending on where you live.

What did the POA say? If there were provisions that state that the money was to be used for your dad's care and it wasn't, there's a legal problem. The next question is whether or not you can obtain a remedy and at what personal cost to you, the executor, or the rest of the family out of pocket.

It all comes down to this: why was $57K withdrawn into a separate account? Was your dad aware that this withdrawal had occurred? Was he competent at the time it occurred? Did he direct that it occur? What was money in this account used for?

There are likely few easy answers and probably no easy solutions to this problem as the executor digs into it - assuming that the executor agrees to what you've suggested. We'll pray that you find the answers you need, the strength to do something about what you find, and that peace would reign.

The question is confusing, but the answer is the same. The POA cannot withdraw money for herself without permission. That is illegal. If he gave permission, then it would be legal. It is his money. Perhaps the other account was to take care of his girlfriend or secret child. We don't know who the account was for.

The sister cannot be named POA after death. POA is only in effect when the person is alive. The executor of the will takes over the finances after that.

It's at times like this that you need to consult with a lawyer who specializes in trusts and estates. Advice from well-intentioned people on the internet are fine when you want to know how to get mom to changer her clothes and take a bath, but when money's concerned, and possible criminal activity has taken place, you need a lawyer.

Maggie Marshall's comments were right on. Thanks I, do agree, the posting is confusing at best. You need legal help FAST. Please, please contact an attorney--a trusted estate attorney. Contact the legal services in your area if you do not know one. Also, remember--people will give you their opinion, but sometimes it is only in their best interest to do so. You need unbiased legal advise. People will destroy themselves for money---even for a few dollars so one must always be vigilant. I've known of a case where a dying man had $2.67 left in his checkbook. His granddaughter went to the hospital with checkbook in hand and had grandpa scribble his signature to the last check before he died so she could cash it. And, no, granddaughter did NOT have POA. Always, ALWAYS have a will. It cost very little to do so. Change the will whenever necessary. Consider it one of your most important documents because it is! Now---get on the phone and call an attorney!

I've read all the responses. There is a lot of truth that can be gleaned from them. But what is correct and what is fiction? You NEED to see a qualified lawyer. At least you will know what you want to know instead of thinking you know.

Your post is confusing. If what you're saying is that she opened another account with $57,000 in it in your dad's name and hers (as a contingent beneficiary, as an example; or jointly in both of their names), that is perfectly fine. At dad's death, then, that account balance reverts to her, bypassing a will even if he has one.

Dad is free to do whatever he wants with his money. If he was unduly influenced by his POA, that is very unfortunate. But sans being able to prove that she coerced him into signing the new account paperwork? There's not a darned thing anyone can do.

It's not that unusual for someone to leave money to the person helping them during the final years of their life. A POA often falls in that category.

If I'm misunderstanding you, and she put the money only into her OWN name, then she is guilty of a crime and can be reported to the State's Attorney office. But I doubt that's what she did.

While it's unusual for a cousin to be named POA when their are multiple children involved, it is NOT unusual for a POA to encourage their charge to set up accounts in this way. Unfortunately. Most often it's someone's child arranging affairs in this way to bypass his siblings.

A Power of Attorney can be a lot of work, an honor and a privilege. It is also a very powerful document.

And yes. A Power of Attorney expires at death. I think what you mean is that your sister was made Executrix of your dad's will. An Executrix, by comparison to a POA, has very little "power" at all. They are charged legally with enforcing the terms of the written will. The will has no control over funds placed jointly OR naming someone as Contingent Beneficiary just as it has no control over life insurance proceeds naming someone beneficiary. In both cases, those funds pass directly to the named person upon death.

I would consult a lawyer,this sounds "shady"..I know from professional and personal experience people can be something else when it comes to money and material possessions..can I tell you a actual event? I took care of this lady who was dying.The daughter honest to God came up to the doctor and asked when mom was going to die because she had vacation and did not want to waste it on mom's passing..the rest of the children cleaned out her accounts and sat in their mom's room ordering out for pizza,going to KFC, playing cards..just horrible lack of respect...well mom showed them,she lived another month and the money had to be put back and as for miss vacation, she went anyway and well mom passed while she was gone...I have witnessed some horrible behavior but this took the prize..as for her money, ha! it was used up for the lady's care..I believe there was $9.99 left...the lady had the last laugh..as that country song goes
"God is great,beer is good and people are crazy."But consult a lawyer..and please as stated above make a will and advance directives now ..I cannot stress it enough

come on, cbg!!! we are all waiting patiently for more information so will can fill in the blanks and complete this puzzle!!

Don't leave us hangin"!

The way I see it, is as follows:

1) The dad chose HIS person he wanted as POA. (the cousin)
2) Dad agreed with the cousin that he/she put some of the money in an extra account so that the checks had BOTH names on them. As his dementia got worse through the years, the cousin needed more and more money to help. (she also deserves some compensation that SHE thinks is fairand the siblings think is FAIR for her work.) Siblings often want to pay their brothers and sisters (or cousins) LESS then what the work is worth. This is ridiculous! If you hire a perfect stranger to take care of your mom it costs $18/hour. Why not pay the family memeber minimum wage..... or at least half of minimum wage?
Did I mention money can cause SO MANY PROBLEMS once the family comes back together after being a part for 20, 30, 40 years? Everyone goes RIGHT BACK to their roles from back then.
She is the late one.
She is the sick one.
He is the hardest worker of all of us.
He/she is the disorganized one.
he/she is the irresponsible one....

and on and on and on....

What a mess!!!!!
kathy

Having dementia does not mean someone is incompetent. In the early stages people are still able to make many decisions. And it does not matter whether the decisions are considered reasonable to anybody else.

If she had POA she could transfer monies but the accounts should have dad's name and her name as POA. She could use money and purchase things for the father's care only--not for herself or a friend of hers, or her husband or her children---only for Dad's needs. Challenge what she spent the money for. Make her produce evidence she acted only in your father's interest---like any crime---follow the money.

No one can have POA after the death. All POA's die with the person who issued it, since they can no longer direct their financial decisions because they are dead.

If Dad died without a will, then the state's rules on Probating such cases take over. If Dad had a will, the person he selected as his executor has to handle
the estate of Dad including paying all of his bills.

Sounds like the cousin saw the POA was her license to steal---truly shameful if that was her intent---but not uncommon. Too often the senior's funds become a grab bag for family members, who use the funds for them or think how nice it is to buy gifts for grandchildren etc. No it is the senior's life savings and they need to preserve it to help pay for the senior's needs while still on this earth.

Good Luck.

I think we need some clarification. I do not read in this question that Dad gave cousin permission to withdraw $57,000.00. What we do not know is if Dad was competent. If not competent, this is a crime as his funds are to be used only for his needs and care. If he was competent and gave permission it is Dad's money to do with as he wants.

It does not sound like the second account was Dad's and cousin/POA. But rather a third person. Is that person another relative/sibling?

Yes. She can do this!

While Dad was alive, Dad gave coursin permission t remove $57,000 of that account and place it in an accont that only had her and Dad's name on it.

AFTER Dad dies, the sister is now poa (THE WAY DAD WANTED IT). The other account has BOTH names on it. when dad died, whatever is left in THAT account now belongs to the cousin. The 3 kids, can't touch it. In fact, if the cousin doesn't even want to share how much is left, she/he in under NO obligation to do so.

People People People.............I am begging everyone reading this....

Get A will written today! even on a bar napkin!!!

You are the most selfish person alive if you don't write a will.

The pain and suffering you "will" cause once you die is intolerable for those you leave behind.

Ever if you want to leave a "f*ck you" will and leave EVERYTHING to your ferret (Murray).....and don't forget about Riley.

Sincerely,

Kathy