How can my friend, that does not have POA, get his Mom out of the home that his brother with POA put her in?
Several months ago my friends mother was placed in a facility by her son that was her caregiver but not her POA. , My friend wants to know how to get his mother out of the facility and take her home with him. She's very unhappy..
Your friend sees the situation like this: his brother who has POA for their mother and lived with her and cared for her over the years... actually spent all her money and then when he'd bled her dry just threw her into a home/scrapheap to rot. He, the friend, now plans to rescue her from the home, bring her to his own home, and care for her to the end of her days. Is that a fair summary?
I don't know how well you know your friend's mother and brother? Only you know whether you consider the above scenario probable, based on what you have previously heard about the family. By the way, "sharp as a tack" is a compliment that people pay to elders they still like. Unfortunately as an assessment of cognitive function it is meaningless.
But I think it would be helpful in any case for you to bear in mind the following:
1. Nobody likes the idea of their mother going into care. Your friend is sad that his mother is no longer living in a family home, and doubly so because she seems to be unhappy about it. 2. He is therefore hypersensitive to anything his mother says about wanting to leave residential care. 3. It is easier for your friend to blame his brother than to accept that age and frailty are overtaking his mother. 4. Your friend almost certainly has no experience of caregiving for seniors and therefore hasn't the first idea of what he's getting himself into. Or indeed, of what his POA brother has already been through.
But no matter - because it ain't happening. Unless there is very clear evidence of the allegations your friend's mother is making against her son, that son retains POA and therefore makes the decisions about where the mother lives.
If you would like to comfort and support your friend in a way that would be genuinely helpful, do a lot more reading and help him come to terms with caring for his mother where she is, and as she now is. It really does sound as if he has an awful lot to learn.
I agree with Pam. There is something missing in this story. Or some exaggeration. Or misunderstanding. If the POA used up all of Mom's money on Mom's care, that is legitimate. That is what Mom's money is for. If he used it for himself, he would be in big trouble when they applied for Medicaid.
Also, you cannot "throw someone in a home." What kind of a facility is it? Medicaid certainly doesn't pay for residential care that is not medically necessary. You have to qualify medically for the need. So either she is paying out of pocket, in which case the POA son obviously did not use up all her money, or it is being paid for by Medicaid, which has looked VERY closely into her financial situation.
With her severe arthritis, can she walk? Transfer from the bed to a wheelchair? Toilet herself? My mother, who is a wee peanut under 5' tall, requires two aides and a sit-to-stand machine each time she goes to the bathroom or transfers from bed to her wheelchair. She lived with a daughter until her health deteriorated to this point. There was no way she could be cared for in a private home without three shifts of helpers. Do you really know the status of your friend's mother? Are you sure he does?
And "sharp as a tack" is a personal opinion. It would not be unheard of for someone with dementia to be able "showtime" and fool someone who sees her for brief periods. What is her medical diagnosis? Does she have "confusion"? "mild cognitive impairment"? "Dementia"? Your friend needs to know the actual medical diagnosis and not rely on his own observation, especially if he has not spent several days with her recently.
If he is taking his mother's word for it that her caregiver son spent all her money, he may not be getting a true picture at all.
If this mother really is "sharp as a tack" then she can simply appoint someone else, such as your friend, to be her POA. She could decide on her own where she will live. If she decides to live with your friend, though, and she needs 24 hour monitoring or she needs two people to transfer or she has other medical requirements, your friend had better be prepared to show how he can provide those things.
I believe your friend is sincere in his desire to make his mom happy. And he probably truly believes his brother has done the wrong things. But we have just seen similar situations so often on this board that we know this story just does not hang together. Too many missing pieces. Too many contradictory claims.
The ideal solution here would be for the two brothers to call a truce. For both of them to meet with her doctor and hear a full diagnosis and prognosis and the recommendations for her care. For POA to explain to his brother where the money has gone, and how the care facility is being paid for.
You are a good friend to look into this. You just don't have a full enough picture to get very specific advice.
Ummm who is paying for care? Medicaid would not if the POA squandered all the money. Something is left untold to you. You don't just "put her in a home" there has to be doctors that recommend it and a means to pay for it. Your friend is leaving something out, or he is in denial of her decline.
sorry bout the confusion. with the poa thing . my friend does not have poa. he wants to care for his mother in his home. the brother who has poa put her in the facility . She (mom ) is very unhappy and wishes to be taken out and cared for by the son without poa. Shes miserable and the son with the poa spent all her money, threw her in a home and health wise she has severe arthritis in her hips, but mentally sharp as a tack. That was kinda confusing. sorry bout that. What can he do to get her out?
Who is POA? Who is unhappy? If everything was working just fine, nobody would have made changes. Maybe the caregiver burned out. Very common. He can still visit her, still spend time with her, bring her flowers and candy. But now he can sleep at night and preserve his sanity. Tell him to let go of guilt and get on with life.
If her son could no longer take care of her, it was probably a wise move. Nobody's happy when they first go into a nursing home. No question, it takes adjustment. The best thing family can do is support the decision and spend loving time with mom in her new home.
Since she didn't want to go INTO a nursing home, NOBODY could put her in one unless she was deemed unsafe in her own home (or someone else's).
honeycomb - could you clarify for me? In your title you write that the son (brother of your friend) who has POA put his mother in a home, and under that you write that the son who put her in a home was caregiver but not POA. Has he become POA since he put her in the home?
Are you talking about POA financial or POA medical? Is your friend's mother competent or incompetent? She can assign POA financial or medical to whoever she wants if she is competent, and if she is competent she decides where she lives. If she is incompetent, the person with POA medical decides. A little more information would help.
What is the mother's condition? Does she have dementia or cognitive problems? Does she need 24 hour supervision? Does she need skilled nursing? Does your friend work? What are his plans for taking care of her in his home?
If the mother is mentally competent ("in her right mind") she is the one who can decide where she wants to live.
I take it that her two sons do not get along or do not communicate well? Did they discuss this at the time their mother was moved into a facility? If they both want what is best for their mother they should be able to set their differences aside, sit down together, and discuss what kinds of care she really needs and how best to get that for her.
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Your friend sees the situation like this: his brother who has POA for their mother and lived with her and cared for her over the years... actually spent all her money and then when he'd bled her dry just threw her into a home/scrapheap to rot. He, the friend, now plans to rescue her from the home, bring her to his own home, and care for her to the end of her days. Is that a fair summary?
I don't know how well you know your friend's mother and brother? Only you know whether you consider the above scenario probable, based on what you have previously heard about the family. By the way, "sharp as a tack" is a compliment that people pay to elders they still like. Unfortunately as an assessment of cognitive function it is meaningless.
But I think it would be helpful in any case for you to bear in mind the following:
1. Nobody likes the idea of their mother going into care. Your friend is sad that his mother is no longer living in a family home, and doubly so because she seems to be unhappy about it.
2. He is therefore hypersensitive to anything his mother says about wanting to leave residential care.
3. It is easier for your friend to blame his brother than to accept that age and frailty are overtaking his mother.
4. Your friend almost certainly has no experience of caregiving for seniors and therefore hasn't the first idea of what he's getting himself into. Or indeed, of what his POA brother has already been through.
But no matter - because it ain't happening. Unless there is very clear evidence of the allegations your friend's mother is making against her son, that son retains POA and therefore makes the decisions about where the mother lives.
If you would like to comfort and support your friend in a way that would be genuinely helpful, do a lot more reading and help him come to terms with caring for his mother where she is, and as she now is. It really does sound as if he has an awful lot to learn.
Also, you cannot "throw someone in a home." What kind of a facility is it? Medicaid certainly doesn't pay for residential care that is not medically necessary. You have to qualify medically for the need. So either she is paying out of pocket, in which case the POA son obviously did not use up all her money, or it is being paid for by Medicaid, which has looked VERY closely into her financial situation.
With her severe arthritis, can she walk? Transfer from the bed to a wheelchair? Toilet herself? My mother, who is a wee peanut under 5' tall, requires two aides and a sit-to-stand machine each time she goes to the bathroom or transfers from bed to her wheelchair. She lived with a daughter until her health deteriorated to this point. There was no way she could be cared for in a private home without three shifts of helpers. Do you really know the status of your friend's mother? Are you sure he does?
And "sharp as a tack" is a personal opinion. It would not be unheard of for someone with dementia to be able "showtime" and fool someone who sees her for brief periods. What is her medical diagnosis? Does she have "confusion"? "mild cognitive impairment"? "Dementia"? Your friend needs to know the actual medical diagnosis and not rely on his own observation, especially if he has not spent several days with her recently.
If he is taking his mother's word for it that her caregiver son spent all her money, he may not be getting a true picture at all.
If this mother really is "sharp as a tack" then she can simply appoint someone else, such as your friend, to be her POA. She could decide on her own where she will live. If she decides to live with your friend, though, and she needs 24 hour monitoring or she needs two people to transfer or she has other medical requirements, your friend had better be prepared to show how he can provide those things.
I believe your friend is sincere in his desire to make his mom happy. And he probably truly believes his brother has done the wrong things. But we have just seen similar situations so often on this board that we know this story just does not hang together. Too many missing pieces. Too many contradictory claims.
The ideal solution here would be for the two brothers to call a truce. For both of them to meet with her doctor and hear a full diagnosis and prognosis and the recommendations for her care. For POA to explain to his brother where the money has gone, and how the care facility is being paid for.
You are a good friend to look into this. You just don't have a full enough picture to get very specific advice.
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Your friend is leaving something out, or he is in denial of her decline.
He can still visit her, still spend time with her, bring her flowers and candy. But now he can sleep at night and preserve his sanity. Tell him to let go of guilt and get on with life.
Since she didn't want to go INTO a nursing home, NOBODY could put her in one unless she was deemed unsafe in her own home (or someone else's).
Are you talking about POA financial or POA medical? Is your friend's mother competent or incompetent? She can assign POA financial or medical to whoever she wants if she is competent, and if she is competent she decides where she lives. If she is incompetent, the person with POA medical decides. A little more information would help.
What is the mother's condition? Does she have dementia or cognitive problems? Does she need 24 hour supervision? Does she need skilled nursing? Does your friend work? What are his plans for taking care of her in his home?
If the mother is mentally competent ("in her right mind") she is the one who can decide where she wants to live.
I take it that her two sons do not get along or do not communicate well? Did they discuss this at the time their mother was moved into a facility? If they both want what is best for their mother they should be able to set their differences aside, sit down together, and discuss what kinds of care she really needs and how best to get that for her.