What do you do when you have no way to control the money your Dad (83) is spending?

I agree with ConcernedDtr ... you can have a Durable POA which can be given based on his deteriorated mental capacity. Check with an attorney. It is not expensive to get that done, and you and your mom will pay for it out of their checking account.

Do you have Power of Attorney set up? I recommend doing that. It's helped me as I handle my father's finances. I've had to work with dad's banks when he started taking out loans that now he can't afford the monthly payments. POA is easier to set up than guardianship. I agree you and your mom should talk to your local Pro Sr. which is an attorney who is knowledgeable about elder law.

When my Dad got bad, he and mom already had a trust, and POA and HIPPA papers were already put together, but not signed off by them...waiting for the right time. If Mom is also concerned, then you and she could have an app't with the attorney who did the trust and explain your concerns. In my case, the attorney offered to be the 'bad guy' who told my folks it was time to sign off on the POA and let me help with bills and money. He pretended to call them in to 'update' the trust and then asked Dad some key questions and got around to Dad saying his memory wasn't good anymore...and got the conversations going that way. Otherwise, if MD won't help by making an assessment, you may actually need to suggest a geriatric specialist who deals in elderly care all the time. We did things in stages....and just anticipate that even if all this gets set up, there will be fighting and arguing until your Dad gets worse to where he just doesn't care about money and stuff. All the others above me have good ideas. Getting your name on the accounts does permit you then to move money to other accounts etc, especially if you have POA. You may need to leave him with an account that has 'some' money in it.....so he feels he still has control, but if he doesn't pay attention to balances, that won't work. Does he pay the bills now? Or does Mom? Would Mom agree to getting bills on auto pay, so they get covered from a different account and Dad just has spending money in his account? My Dad was missing bills, losing them, throwing them away. And he was OK with me paying bills ...but sometimes would flip into HE was in charge. He even went back to fire the attorney who had them sign for me to be POA, saying he never agreed to that. Then we had to get the two MDs to say he was no longer able. Attorney called him in and told him what doctors said. He never argued after that, and very soon, didn't even want me to show him what I had paid and how much. Lost all interest, other than to periodically ask if he still had enough money and were his bills getting paid. Now he's in a facility and has no memory of anything connected with bills or money at all. He can visit and socialize pretty well, and talks about taking Mom out to dinner and about doing things that would cost money, but has no thoughts about whether or not he has money to do the things he talks about. Course he talks about going to work and getting paid sometimes too.... But with your dad, obviously, something has changed and you and Mom do need to get to the bottom of it in order to know if you are dealing with a physical illness, a med adjustment or demential/Alzheimer's type of thing. I wish you the best....

First get Adult Protective Services involved. The more evidence you can gather, the better your case in Court to have him declared incompetent or at the very least under a 72 hr. hold in a psychiatric hospital so he can be adequately evaluated. Sounds like a mental illness with hoarding involved and he does need help. Document all the people who are calling to address their concerns about him. Discuss his behaviors with your mother too. This requires an immediate intervention. Good luck!

I agree with Laura. I also have durable power of attny just in case something happens and that's what helped my dad understand me being put on all accts./trusts, etc. Maybe you can get your mom a pretend drs. appt. and your dad can go along. Call dr. ahead of time to let them in on it so dr. can interact with dad and see what's going on. We did that with my mom because she wouldn't go to dr. because she didn't think anything was wrong with her. It was "all of us". After she answered the same question over and over (along with with getting impatient and angry) dr. could document what he observed. that will give you some leverage for legal matters.

All good advice, in the meantime see if you can cut off the contacts with whom he is making these transactions. Internet, phone, mail. I had to turn the ringer off our house phone and intercept all the mail.

Sounds like dad may have dementia. If he hasn't had a full medical workup, he needs one if you can get him there as sometimes medical issues can mimic dementia. You need 2 doctor's statements saying your dad is incapable to make complex decisions on his own. I agree you need to speak with an attorney, one that specializes in guardianship and/or elder law.

Guardianship if your worried about him or Conservator if your just worried about his money.

If you don't have a Durable Power of Attorney, try to get one. Tell him it is for much later and just in case he has a car wreak or something he is likely to believe. Work with his doctor and document odd behavior. He needs a diagnosis.

If he has been financial stable his whole life then all of a sudden he starts doing irresponsible things, it sounds like something is definitely going wrong in the brain area. It could be new medication, old medication that needs to be tweaked or a combination of meds that don't interact well with each other OR that he is declining in his brain health. Even if your mother is on every account, you need to be also. Just in case something happens to her unexpectedly or even the both of them it will make things a lot easier on You. My mom has dementia/alzheimer's and luckily my dad was very compliant on this. My husband and I both have gone through a lot of care giving with his parents and now mine so my dad had seen what could happen. It's like teenagers.....they never (or adults too) think anything will ever happen to them when they do dumb things but we all know it can and does. We put doing the right things off until it's too late. If you are not on all the accounts I would get your mom to go with you and sign your name to everything. Your dad might have to sign also. I can't remember but don't think my mom had to since she was already on. We also put everything into a Trust. That seemed to throw my dad at first but now is glad we did. He thought he would be giving all his money to me but now he knows it is for tax reasons and that it will be so much easier on me when he passes. You might tell you dad (when he is in his good mind) that if something were to happen to both of them you could not get to their money and everything would fall on you. I'm not sure why it's so hard to get this documented. My mother's doctor could tell right away that something was going on and this was when she first started having trouble. People from their Sunday School class noticed it as well. Well, I guess I've gone on long enough. Could talk about this for days. Good luck to each one of you and although I don't know you personally I pray for you everyday. It's so hard.

Make an appointment with a good attorney that specializes in Elder Law and explain the situation. One of my colleagues had this problem with his father in law and the attorney laid out the easiest path to resolve the problems.

The spouse has a vested interest in protecting joint assets. Your mom has a right to demand that her SSA and any pensions etc that are due to her, come directly to her. She does NOT have to agree to having a joint account with your father and getting her assets out of any joint accounts may be a good idea. The issue is not just joint access, but joint liability, as well. It sounds like dad is doing unpredictable things with finances. I personally do not believe in joint accounts except for joint expenses, because I have suffered through financial abuse in a marriage with an irresponsible lying partner. You have to trust someone to have joint accounts, and when that trust is gone, it is time to stop that. Separate account force communication and accountability. Too often, men think they should run it all, and make choices that often favor their position, rather than their partners. I am already starting to see this with the roll out of ACA. Husbands politically opposed to Obamacare refusing to get insurance despite their spouse needing insurance, with no subsidies for persons who file separately. So to get insurance, the wife has to go begin her husbands back, must file the joint return, and wait fir the wrath to come later.

Are your parents still married and living under the same roof? Where does your Mom stand in all of this? It would seem that her opinion should weigh heavily in their financial decisions, whether they be sound or poor ones. Does she acknowledge your Father's growing incompetence? Perhaps she should communicate her concerns with your Father's doctors or contact an attorney to get some sound legal advice as it would be in her best interest to know that she is able to better protect herself and her husband's futures by protecting their financial interests.

If you have an IKOR office in your area, call them. I own an IKOR office in Pittsburgh and this sounds like a hybrid of a couple cases we have worked on. A nurse would assess his his functioning and offer recommendations in a gentle way that makes him feel supported and not shamed or controlled. I imagine that his decline is not just financial. I would imagine that other area of his life are compromised. I will say prays for your family. I would be happy to chat with you and offer feedback on how we have worked on similar cases if you call our office. You can look us up online and ask for Patty

Have your mother take most of the money out of the account and put it in another bank without his name on it. It's her money and future too!

caring for my father, living at home... his home or your home?
Time for you to consult with a elder affairs attorney.

Do you have authority to shut off his source of funds ?

Yes might have to appeal to the courts,but it sounds like it will be difficult to document? Unfortunately this is going to cost you a lot of money, I ddon't see your dad paying for it, in fact, he may hire his own attorney to fight against guardianship. Best of luck!

Yes Guardianship is the way to go before he is totally penniless.

I made that sound like guardianship will accomplish ruining his life. I mean to convey that guardianship will prevent your dad from spending all of his money.

I think your best option would be to apply for guardianship over your dad. He needs someone to look out for him financially or he's going to ruin his life and guardianship will accomplish this.