If it turns out I did sign paperwork for financial responsibility at the nursing home I admitted my Mother to, what recourse do I have?

For what it's worth, here's the experience I had in 2014. When my husband's hospice social worker insisted I place my husband in a nursing home, I consented because I could no longer take care of him. The NH admissions guy started to read the contract to me, but I insisted he give me a copy. I read it thoroughly and told him I would sign it -- including the paragraph that said if Medicaid pending didn't come through, I would pay. Starting from the first statement from my husband's checking account, I saw that his Social Security checks were no longer deposited. They never did touch my checking account. My husband died four months later. I found out after he died that Medicaid had been approved. It was a harrowing time.

true, but approximately, and that based on 30 days per, which most months have at least, right?

Monthy rate depends on number of days in the month.

so $6K/mo.?

Have been paying $200 a day.

No, I have not review the paperwork. I emailed the Financial Mgr a couple of days ago and told him I talked with Admissions, but would like to see copies of the paperwork. He has not responded. It seems like I'm having to pull teeth here to get anything done! Geezzzz

so how much have you been paying a month up till now?

Did you review the paperwork you signed?

Thanks to those of you have responded so far. The 10K will be my mom's money and they said they will put it in an account at the NH. I tired talking to
someone in the Aging and Disability Dept the other day and they said they never heard of the $10K, but then again some nursing homes required one thing or another and we don't have much choice.

When I moved her in, I told them I wanted to keep her there on Medicaid after her money ran out and I was told that would be okay, now they tell me they really don't take Medicaid pending but are gong to do me a favor, after talking to Corporate, and will accept mom as Medicaid pending if we give them the $10K. It all seems confusing to me. It seems I can only hope things will work out, because if they don't, there will be NO money left to place her in another nursing home while on Medicaid pending. Almost all NH will not accept a Medicaid pending patient unless you give them money upfront.

Caregiverhelp - I have no legal advice. I do think you've been given a lot of good information to consider in your action plan.
I just wanted to say - don't beat yourself up for signing paperwork without reading or fully understanding it. Who hasn't done that on one occasion or another? When I admitted my mom into a NH I was towards the end of almost three months of sheer h*ll in trying to deal with her. I was beyond relieved that I found a really nice place and we had actually managed to get her packed and in the car! Frankly, I would have signed away a kidney if it meant getting mom in - and worried about the transplant date later. Good luck, I hope this works out alright for you and your mom.

For my mom, Medicaid approval took almost 6 mos & she did her copay of her income less her personal needs allowance each mo to the facility as if she was on medicaid. She was a "Medicaid Pending" admission & read that on paperwork.

What I'd be concerned about for OP is if her mom is considered to be a "Medicaid Pending" resident OR if she is considered private pay during the application process by this NH for however long the application process takes. If she is a "pending " then the rules & safeguards set by medicaid are there. But if she's viewed as private pay, I'd bet the NH can send a 30 day notice that she has to move. A 30 day notice is basically an eviction notice and usually is cc'd to local APS, the state aging & elderly dept (forTX it would be TxDADs) so the NH has a CYA that eviction is imminent. Family has to do something if they get a 30 day (its usually sent certified mail) as it can morph into real problems (like emergency ward of the state order).

Caregiver, on rereading the posts...is the 10k your $ or moms $? I was initially assuming its your 10k money & it basically is going to be an escrow like account held by the NH while moms application is processed and you get the 10k back once mom is accepted onto medicaid. Is this right?
Or is the 10k moms $? If it's moms 10k $, it's going to be a asset problem for Medicaid. They are allowed a maximum of 2k in assets. $ held in an account is an asset and 10k would be over the limit for Medicaid.
Who's 10k is it?

If this NH really doesn't have Medicaid residents to any real degree, then admissions & billing could be clueless on the criteria & compliance needed for Medicaid. I'd try to speak with both whomever deals with medicaid at the corporate level AND the state caseworker for the facility / moms application directly if this is the situation.

Your bigger problem right now is paying March, yes? It's my understanding that Medicaid approval takes between 30 and 90 days. Resident expert Carol wrote about Medicaid approval:

"Longer than we'd like, but it depends on the state where you live and their backlog. Expect at least a month and maybe as long as three months. You can call for updates, however, and to make sure no more documentation is needed.
Take care,
Carol"

My point is that failure to pay is one reason nursing homes can evict people. Does this nursing home accept Medicare but not Medicaid?

The Admissions Rep's job is to get you to sign those papers and *voluntarily* agree to pay the bills. Nursing home admission agreements frequently contain an arbitration clause stating that all disputes regarding the resident's care will be decided through arbitration. Did the paperwork include this clause?

A nursing home cannot force a resident to leave if the resident is waiting to get Medicaid AND the facility did NOT provide notice that they do NOT accept Medicaid. Look over what you signed. You may have more than one avenue to pursue.

So this NH is requiring & basically demanding that you to put up 10K in your own personal funds to have your mom stay a resident at a facility that takes Medicare & Medicaid?

I bet this requirement & demand is not allowed by Medicaid.
Something about this whole situation sounds wrong.
Just like a NH cannot require that their monthly income source (like their SS & retirement monthly checks) be sent to the NH directly.

Do you have a copy of all admissions paperwork? If not, I would suggest that you get a friend to be with you and you go early tomorrow to the NH and ask for a copy of all pages of all the admissions documents. BTW they can charge you a copy fee but they cannot charge you a research or staff fee for searching.

So what happens if it's 3 mos or 6 mos and mom's application is still being processed. Another 10K? or more?

Do you know what path is done for Medicaid applications for your state?
Like is your state set up that the Medicaid application and supporting documents are done by family or DPOA at the NH and then the NH takes all these and send it along with their bill and paperwork to the state Medicaid program? (this was the system I went through in TX with my mom). Or will mom apply to Medicaid on her own (or you will do) directly with a caseworker of the state's Medicaid program? If its the former, just how will you know that the NH has sent the applications & all documentation to the state and it is actually being processed?

The whole "we are making an exception for you" sounds totally bogus to me. A facility that takes Medicaid cannot make exceptions. They have to participate in the program under Medicaid rules. Now they can have a waiting list for beds that residents get placed from. But this just doesn't sound like that is what they are basically demanding of a residents family.

About the 10K will they be drawing from it to pay mom;s monthly after February? So what happens when the 10 is gone? When mom gets eligible for Medicaid, do they repay you the 10K with interest?

btw the feds require that their personal needs allowance be placed in an interest bearing account (yeah its pennies but still….) so there is no reason why they cannot pay you interest on 10large.

Did you go to see other NH's? If not, I know it can be hard to do but really I'd go and find 2 that currently have open Medicaid beds and ask what the system is for mom to move in and become a Medicaid Pending resident. I would not mention the current NH at all. If what you hear and see in their paperwork is dramatically different from where mom is now, think about moving her into another NH. Unless they are totally bedridden & qualifying for hospice, most elderly are still pretty tough old birds and amazingly resilient to changes. You'd be surprised. A Nh can easily be 5K - 15K a month. If something goes amiss in all this, it's a huge sum that you could be responsible for unless you personally have oodles of money both for your own living expenses and retirement so that mom's costs of care are not a pinch in your purse ever.

I will be making the last monthly payment from her savings in February, then the other $10K they require when we apply for Medicaid. They said Corporate
requires it and usually don't take Medicaid patients. I told them it was my
understanding when I moved her in that they do. They said since she has been private paying, they will make an exception for her as long as we give them $10K and put in an account there at the nursing home so they can use while Medicaid is pending. No way around it. I tried. I didn't want to have to move her into another nursing home. She is happy there and it would only confuse and upset her.

That's a tough one.

There's a presumption that execution of a document is done with informed consent. If you were hurried, you might not have taken the time, or been too stressed, to sign with informed consent, presumably after asking the appropriate questions.

If you signed under duress since you were worried about your mother, that might be an argument as well.

Another would be that you simply didn't realize the implications of signing without adding your POA designation.

You might state to the Admins that you realized you signed inappropriately and need to have an amendatory document, one that states that all the listed documents (and itemize them) are amended to reflect that you were/are signing as DPOA and not individually.

This might be a good question for one of the resident legal experts. You can contact the admins and ask for this at:

https://www.agingcare.com/contactus.aspx

I don't think telling anyone at this stage that you don't agree with the terms of any documents and want it discarded would get you anywhere; the response would probably be that if you didn't agree, you shouldn't have signed it.

I think duress is a better argument.

BTW, have you applied for Medicaid yet?