How to convince a caretaker they are being unkind to spouse with dementia and also allowing adult son to push spouse around?

Empathy: I can imagine the stress imposed on your friend. Please remind her to take care of self! I can't say that enough because if she falls ill, she is no good to ANYONE!

Oh boy. Thanks everyone. My friend is pretty stressed out. At least her sister is flying in tomorrow and dome decisions will be made. Karma. I was thing the same thing. We have been in constant communication. She is doing the best she can under the circumstances. Just want safety for the dad and relief for my dear friend.

Empathy, now your friend has MORE to worry about. Support her if you can.

Karma happened.

Oh dear. Couldn't have happened to a nicer chap.

I'm sorry for the son's affliction, I'm sorry for his mother's having to face this, and I'm sorry that the family has been forced into a crisis. But if it results in the father being well cared for and the mother being better supported, then I can't be sorry about that. Please update, hope your friend is coping okay.

empathy!!! wow...what a story!! karma...god...saved the day for those two elderly people!! that rotten son!!

It sounds like someone somewhere must've been praying for an end to the abusive situation. Sometimes bad things must happen to someone before they'll stop abusing their victim, I've seen this happen before multiple times. Abuse generally doesn't stop despite a major crisis, I've noticed this. The best thing you could do if the brother does recover is keep him away from the elderly man because he won't stop abusing him and the abuse will eventually lead to the man's death. Abuse is an endless vicious cycle that just won't quit on its own, this is why it's important to just put the man under other care and maybe into a facility for his safety. I'm an abuse survivor myself, and that's how I can tell you abusers never quit abusing their victims despite a major health crisis

Mysteries of life. Hopefully your friends siblings are ready to take action and assist your friend with the many decisions needing to be made at this time. It is an opportunity to make long term decisions for the care of her parents. I'm sure the mother is very frightened at this turn of events. Perhaps she will be more reasonable now as she no longer has the backing of her son who was/is apparently ill also. She is lucky to have you in her corner for support. I still think she needs the guidance of qualified legal counsel to avoid missteps with three handicapped people to care for and of course Dad still needs medical attention. Hopefully he has it by now. Thanks for keeping us informed.

Very strange occurrence. My friend is on way down to her parents. It seems the brother has had a stroke and is in ICU. She doesn't have any details yet but he is intubated. Depending upon the severity of the stroke he may go to rehab, or need long term care which the mom cannot provide for many reasons, including her own advanced age and his size. So even though it's very tragic, he isn't a threat to his dad at the moment, or maybe never will be again. Of course my friend will have to help figure out what to do. Will update as I get more info on what is happening,

Betsy stran

Churchmouse: I agree with your consensus!

Llama I agree. But the difficulty will arise when mother and son deny that it happened, as they surely will. I think this is a time for Empathy to support her friend to the hilt in keeping focused on results: namely, getting the family onto APS's radar so that the right changes can be made. Doesn't mean I personally wouldn't like to take the son by the ear and physically remove him from the house for him to see how he likes being kicked "lightly" in the butt; it's just a question of what'll work out best.

Empathy: It is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE for the son to kick his father in the rear! I DON'T CARE HOWEVER LIGHTLY IT WAS! He needs to be reported for abuse to his father!

Hi empathy,

I forgot to mention that if you wait, you never know that a broken bone might not become infected, you know, and internal infection for untraded broken bones that happen to not start healing right. Waiting too long could put the patient at risk for needing surgery on a broken bone. Don't put the patient at further risk by waiting, his life is at risk. The sooner you can get this taken care of the better. I'm not sure exactly how old he is, but I guess that doesn't matter near as much as giving someone the ultimatum:

* before bringing the patient home from the hospital, that son must go or that dad can't come home.

If the son won't leave, it may be time to do one of two things:

* Involve the cops to force him out so that the elderly dad can come home

* Move the elderly dad to a safe location

Reporting this to the hospital will get you some leverage and a well needed help you may not otherwise get. Hospitals are very powerful where suspicious activity is involved. By taking immediate steps to get the elderly patient to the ER as opposed to urgent care, you have more power behind you at your fingertips just by entering the department. If you taken by squad, they can bypass waiting in the lobby, and they can prevent him from suffering any further. What I would do if I were you is get him in a laying down position to the pressure off his tailbone until help arrives to take him to the ER. Make sure the paramedics lay him down but prop up his legs, specifically under the lower legs but paying special attention to propping his legs under the knees. I'm not sure that they might not see fit to go ahead and use the backboard, I'm not sure about putting him on the backboard for a broken tailbone. I broke my tailbone when I was 13 but was never taken to the doctor. I broke mine are falling down repeatedly on my tailbone on a concrete floor learning to rollerskate with two skates as opposed to one. I was afraid to tell the house parent at the group home for fear I would get in trouble, I was bullied at the group home anyway. I still do have some trouble with my tailbone and I highly suspect that I may have broken it at 13. It took a long time to heal, and I know how painful it is to sit especially on hard seating as opposed to soft seating. I know what to do when I sit too long and my tailbone hurts, I just go to my Tempur-pedic bed and lay down, elevating my legs as I described to you on behalf of the patient who desperately needs medical help. If I were you, I would not take him to a small hospital in a small town. I would take him to a big hospital that has more options to do more for him and help him more. If you taken by squad though, they may have to take him to the nearest hospital before transferring him at your request or the doctor's. Definitely discuss this option with the paramedics and the ER staff. You can tell dispatch to have the squad come quietly with no sirens as not to scare the patient. Sirens can be upsetting to any patient, and some areas may allow early siren cut off right before approaching the scene, leaving only the lights on and they just pull right up to where they're dispatched. The hospital will be able to do far more for this patient than urgent care (who may end up sending him to the hospital anyway).

Hi empathy,

You really don't want to wait in case this elder has a broken bone that could easily cause other problems. Please don't wait, take him now to the ER. He really needed medical attention when this first happened why when you first found out, which ever came first. The longer you wait, the less likely that will heal properly, and the more problems it will cause because the bone is not likely to heal and could shift farther out of line if it's broken. Since this is his tailbone, be sure to bring up to your intake nurse to be very careful what kind of bed they put him on and that you need a thicker mattress because you suspect a broken bone. A nice thick mattress will conform to better support and conform to the body. When the nurse takes you back to the room, they'll most likely prop up the head of the bed. Ask if the gurney has an adjustment to raise the patients knees a little bit while propped up in bed. If it has an adjustment for that, most likely adjust that for the patient until they're comfortable. For safety purposes, use the side rails and stay with him. If they have wheelchairs inside the lobby area where you enter the ER, take him inside from the car in a wheelchair. It may also be better off on him if you just take him by squad because they have the stretcher and they'll carry him for you. Just tell the responders what happened and who did it. Just tell them what you told us here

Thank you all. The dad will be taken to urgent care this's weekend when my friend goes down again to visit. Thank you for the heads up on osteoporosis and caffeine. This should be an emerging epidemic with the way baby boomers consume soda, etc.

I strongly agree with having the elderly man checked out to see if his tailbone was broken. That caretaker should not have kicked him at all regardless. This should be reported to the hospital as elder abuse when you have him checked out because they'll help you get a hold of APS and make a good report on this. You can only keep the elder in daycare for so many hours until you must bring them home, and sometimes home just isn't safe. When you have him checked out for a broken tailbone, you may just as well check to see if this elder has osteoporosis, and I strongly suspect he probably does. Osteoporosis is pretty common among older people, especially the elderly. When they check his tailbone, have them also check for osteoporosis especially in the painful area and surrounding areas for starters. Ultimately you want to do a full body scan to find osteoporosis anywhere in the skeletal system, and I'll let you in on a little secret:

Anything with caffeine will each calcium from your bones, causing osteoporosis at some point. It was recently found that even Coca-Cola is voluntarily pulling products off of store shelves. Someone found and shared a link to a video revealing the real truth about the damaging effects of Coca-Cola on the skeletal system and how it causes skeletal damage and even osteoporosis. Most people who responded in the comments section on social media are relieved Coca-Cola is pulling products off of store shelves, and now that I saw the eye-opening video, so am I, especially as an arthritic

the son probably broke his dad's tailbone when he kicked him and that is very painful...a doctor should check him out!!! dam, what a predicament...esp when these parents still rely on him!!

Thanks to all who have offered advice. My friend found an excellent day care for her dad and plans to present the idea to her mom this weekend. She may remove dad from home if no progress is made. I appreciate the understanding of the posters regarding how complicated this situation is. She is also going to arrange for siblings to pressure the mom. I will keep you all apprised of her progress. This is such a wonderful resource and I am very grateful to those who have taken the time to offer advice and support.

When your friend and her siblings unite they can make a difference for all. Perhaps a visit to an elder attorney or police office to determine their rights would be prudent before taking action. Most bullies will crumble when confronted with a greater strength. Tell the brother to leave and take his mother with him. That should get his and her attention. Of course there is no perfect solution. The dad is accustomed to the abuse. This didn't just start. You might not be legally responsible but morally it must be an awful thing to deal with. Friend and siblings should visit often as possible and try to change the family dynamics and make sure of their position so as to not make it worse for the dad. Hugs to you.

This is a nightmare story. Just get help. The whole bunch needs it, but there are some less able to help themselves or others. If you're the one who can get help, do it.

P.S. This sounds like an awful situation. Bless you for supporting your friend and getting support yourself. I hope she can get her parents some in-home support at least, maybe a local community group or church even. If the mom felt less reliant on the son, and the son didn't feel she was so dependent on him, things might be different...

To get clarity and the strength to act, it may help to consider what you/your friend would do if it was a child or teenager. What if it was the husband allowing his wife to be abused? Elders are often in the same kind of complex, dependent relationships. But who thinks a child or woman is possibly better off left in a situation they are physically at risk? The next kick could send him falling to the floor and/or create a fatal blood clot, not to mention living in fear every day. If he was bruised badly there may still be evidence enough for your friend to photo. Elders tend to heal more slowly and bruise longer (weeks). Saying something less than perfect out of frustration at one time or another is one thing most caregivers can relate to. But there is no excuse, bad day or not, to assault someone. I'd also ask your friend what makes her think mom isn't also abused and just as scared? She may not have thought of that, but it sounds quite possible.

Yeah, the mom has lived with it for a while and is now giving in to the meanness to the dad. She's probably got that syndrome where she knows she can't make it without the son and so has made herself believe he's right in abusing her husband. She is coping in this strange way.

Do you think they have the money for living without the son? It sounds like the dad living with the daughter is the best idea and she should threaten to report them unless they allow that. Just take the Dad and dare them to object.

I don' mean to be flippant, it is not easy to talk about these things. You don't want to cast aspersions I believe you have presented it fairly to all concerned. Could be other factors at work not visible, like maybe the son really does a lot, but even so, something is wrong here.

Reassure your friend. Experienced elder care social workers will understand very well that she is dealing with a very difficult dilemma, and will not give her a hard time over the delay. She should still be clear about what she saw when, with dates and names and places - tell the truth and shame the devil, as they say - because APS need to have the facts straight.

Thank you all for the thoughtful responses. I am urging my friend to report this incident. She is afraid she will get in trouble since it happened 2 weeks ago. Her mom has always been in control. I remember when I had to take charge of both my elderly parents. It was so hard to do. I placed my dad in a facility near my home and moved my mom in with me. She's been here 13 years. Fortunately there was no abuse in my parents relationship. It was clear my mom could no longer care for my dad due to his advancing Alzheimers. Now my mom has the same condition. Role reversals are emotionally charged but I keep telling my friend her dads safety comes first. If she doesn't do something soon I will call the police and report the incident. Of course the mom will think her daughter did it so either way, there is going to be a huge family confrontation. But better that than and abused elderly man.

What a sad situation for that vulnerable old gentleman. When I read that "the Dad himself doesn't want to leave his home and thinks his wife is going to take care of him", it was heartbreaking to see that he still hopes his family will care for him but there may perhaps be a possible solution? Rather than moving the Dad out of his home which he doesn't want to leave despite what has happened to him from his wife and son - could live-in nurses or carers move into the family home and be there 24/7 as a kind of guardian / protector for him? If the wife and son saw that there would be witnesses to their unkind and painful behaviour to Dad then they might modify their treatment of him and he would benefit not only from that but also from being able to stay in his own home, a factor which should not be underestimated. The upheaval of Dad being sent off elsewhere by APS - with his dementia and consequent need to be in familiar surroundings like home - should be avoided if at all possible BUT ONLY IF his safety and well being can be ensured and he can be protected by the above live in nursing / carer help.

Just to clarify, the poster is not legally mandated to report elder abuse. As I read one law, only people who care for the victim, full or part time, paid or unpaid, are mandated to report. Empathy is merely a friend of the daughter. Boy, if anyone who saw me snap at my husband could report me for elder abuse, I would insist that APS take him away! I'm kind 49 times, and then I have a momentary hissy fit, and then recover!

I have a smidgen of sympathy for the wife. She is not really fit to be his caregiver. And she's probably 90 or at least 80 herself!

Someone needs to look at their money situation, and FORCE Mom to accept some in-home help, or pay for adult day care for Dad.

It's easy to tell people what to do when we don't have to deal with the emotional fall-out. Ask the other siblings how they would feel if brother knocks Dad down, maybe by accident, and he breaks a hip and dies. Choose which horrible situation you want to face -- a big fight with Mom and Brother, or the premature death or injury to Dad. I'm not sure which I would choose!

The "quickest" way will be to call the police Dept of the city your friend's father lives in and ask for a well being check. I just had this experience happen when one day when I was out running errands and my brother was here. A friend of my fathers stopped by and my whacked out brother chased him away. So the friend called the police. Cops showed up when I was there. I took the officer back into my fathers room immediately and he spent a good forty five minutes talking with both of us. He was very understanding, polite, and helpful.
Unfortunately the next required by law step is for APS to do a follow up.
This part was a nightmare for me as my situation is different and there is no abuse.
The long and the short is one call to the police for a well being check will trigger the APS visit. Possibly ending in your friend's father being moved.

Maybe both the Dad and Mom should be re situated? If she needs the son's help for everything and he's emotionally unstable, geez, kinda like 3 10 year olds going it alone in in house, hugh? If he's 50, never moved out, has illness, he too may need to get into some sort of 1/2 way house, work/training program, have his medications evaluated? You're a good friend to look for help when your friend is hurting. :-)