My sister is a nurse and telling dad what medications to take or not take. Should she be doing this?

Trying to manage all this, I have been on business travel and a whole week of meetings and travel again. Plus for some reason his small dog he felt needed to be carried down the stairs outside and he dropped him now the dog (very old) is just about broken. So dealing with that now. I am just tired and worn at this point. Concentrating on my wife and her health. Dad seems fine for the moment. So until a crisis arises I am not going to deal with him. He wants to play with his meds with my sister then so be it. Next week I plan to re work the POA and legal forms that I need to update so I can be more in charge of him so I dont have to play the games.

TG, what I wrote?  That's the sort of thing that virtually any mental health professional should be able to help you with, i.e., getting what you need/want in a nonconfrontational way.  

Think of it this way. You need a better set of tools to address thus situation.  

I'm blushing! One of my cousins and I talk about that sometimes.

Barb, excellent suggestion. I think you should be Tgengine's Geriatric Care Manager! Seriously.

BarbBrooklyn Ill try that, thanks. May be a bit less confrontational.

"Dear Sis; I hope this finds you well; wife has been having some medical issues, but I've told you about those, the doctors are still investigating and hope to have some answers for her soon. It's very worrisome.

Speaking of worrisome, dad has been telling me that he's decided, after talking to you, to stop taking his (fill in the blank) meds. I just wanted to check in and see if you'd had an in depth conversation about this and if you'd like his MD's phone number to disucss.

You know how dad likes to play fast and loose sometimes with "this one said this" and "this one said that" until your head starts to spin?

I just want to make sure that we're on the same page with his care plan; I wish he'd pay more attention to his diet and his glucose numbers. And he seems not to want to pay attention to his sleep apnea. All that lack of O2 to his brain seems to be wreaking havoc with his thinking and reasoning skills.

Anytime you want to chat about this, shoot me an email and we can set up a time where I know he won't be listening in"

Sunnygirl1: "She lied a lot because she forgot she had them (the medical conditions)"-sounds so much like my late mother who when I went to live with her in another state said "oh, no, I did not have skin cancer." I said "mother, I am looking at a medical document from your dermatologist that said "N has  melanoma."

He should listen to his doctor's protocol of care and not your sister's, who lives so far away and hasn't seen him regularly.

Try email.

You said that your dad came to live with you, since he was not able to manage his own household. And now he also is not properly handling his medical issues. Hmm.....and you don't have Durable POA. It sounds like things are likely to get really intense. I'm sorry to say that, but, I might consult with an attorney about your options. I'd explore what evidence you need in your jurisdiction, since, it doesn't seem likely that your father will sign DPOA. It's unfortunate.

I'd also read a lot about dementia, because, in the early stages...it's not that easy to recognize. With my LO I had no idea. I just couldn't figure out why she would do this or say that....THEN, it became clear. She lied a lot, only she didn't know she was lying. She denied medical conditions, because she forgot she had them.

I do hope you can find some answers and help. This kind of thing can really take a toll. Take care of yourself too.

Thank you for some of the good suggestions and no thanks to those you suggest otherwise. I just take your responses as what they are if you believe what I am saying or not. The more I am here the more I find those who care to talk someone down because you think know better. But hey, if that is the way you are then so be it. Yes I am trying to be involved with his care. It is difficult to know if someone is lying or not. It is difficult to know if someone is telling him something or not without hearing the direct conversation. I can only surmise when I am told that is what the person said. So with dad I continue to monitor him and attempt to take as much charge as I can as he is not identified and cognitively challenged. If that is the case then it is a game changer and all our lives will change. I am hoping that is a long way off. As far as dealing with my sister that is a challenge in it self. It is difficult to analyze someone from a few posts but thank you for doing so. Since I do not have a POA on dad (unless he is in a medical condition) I dont have much. I offered him a place to live not a nursing home. This was due to his failure to have a plan and not enough money to live on his own. When I moved him he was already underwater financially and not really taking care of himself. It was not due to my abiding care, it was a matter of fact and neither sibling was jumping up to take over. I try to feed him in a healthy manner and provide him medical care but he chooses to live the way he wants. Sodium, fat and sugar rich diet as much as I try to cook somewhat healthy. I am not perfect I do make mistakes a lot. It is a challenge having him here as I try to care for him. Add a daughter and SIL and 2 dogs in the mix and you have a recipe for a stress disaster. So maybe I am not doing it right, I get it. Maybe I shouldn't blame my sister (I don't but I get annoyed when I get the go around and no discussion from her). She does like to call the shot's and tells me so, it's always been that way so I cannot change it. If I do talk to her she goes right to dad so it is less stress for me not to engage her.

You CANNOT diagnose over the telephone. I have a nephew-inlaw like your sister and I told my BIL that his son is wrong - you CANNOT diagnose over the telephone.

Add to that, his medical record should he be admitted to hospital will not be accurate. They will administer drugs that he is no longer taking - I don't even want to go there. My DH had been off meds and it was documented but the Hospital Doctor was still giving him drugs that had been stopped! And she was an a-h and wouldn't listen! I finally just refused to allow the drugs to be administered. I found out we have that right.

Ok, depending on his age, they now do decide that cholesterol meds should not be administered after a certain age due to side-effects. My DH was taken off his Simvastatin this past Spring when I asked my doctor why it was still needed since he wasn't eating. My DIL said he never should have been on it at 95, suggesting that most are taken off it around the age of 87. But I went to the doctor to stop some of the medicines, not to my nephew-inlaw and not to my DIL. I went to the doctor.

Sadly, I don't think you can stop your sister from diagnosing over the phone - people like that will not listen. Most think they know more than the doctors.

I like the idea of sending him to live with your sister - but I think that will cause you more grief than it's worth - starting with the guilt factor.

When my sisters were telling me what to do with my dad, I just told them that he had free will and I would not take responsibility for anything they were telling him to do. That stopped it in a hurry.

TG, you are stuck, it is frustrating, and I sympathise.

But, so, what do you want to do? What do you want to happen?

Vent away by all means, but as you have always known and has always been the case the solution is in your own hands.

With the driving, not to be callous but I'd be less concerned about your father - I've never seen the logic of insisting on being more concerned about a person than he has ever been bothered to be himself - and more about the damage he could do to others. And what it might cost.

But that's a whole 'nother can of worms, eh?

How about shipping him out to Sister for Thanksgiving and a couple of weeks either side? Give you a breather and her an update.

"The first Christmas here he said something smart to me and I barked at him, he sulked in his room for an hour until I had to apologize".

Why did you have to apologize? You are both adults. You support him and have given him a place to live, rent free. If he says something snotty, you repond appropriately, ie, "Hey, this is MY house? You don't like it here, move!".

I would not apologize to someone who mouthed off to me like that. Let him sulk.

TG, not sure if you're venting, which is fine, or if you'd like to role play a conversation with your sis , or with dad's doctor that might be productive.

Let us know.

NYDIL, excellent advice.

I too wondered about the alleged statement that "The last time she had him she let him drive 8 hours while completely dehydrated." And you also wrote that it's been months since she's seen him. So this wasn't recent, if it really did happen.

TG wrote: "Dad tells me what he thinks I want to hear." There's your answer. Stop blaming your sister.

I do not understand why you insist that your father remains competent and independent. Your dad is not competent and his poor self management indicates as much. I would not be surprised if your sister the nurse has told your father no such things about taking and not taking medications.

You may have been in the medical field but you are not a nurse and do not understand the physiology and metabolism of drugs whereas your sister does. Unless your sister the nurse is masquerading as the angel of death, I find it difficult to believe that she let him drive 8 hours while dehydrated. Stubborn old people - and your father certainly fits that category - do dangerous things and make bad decisions. Stop blaming your sister the nurse for your father's bad decisions. You have no proof that she told him anything!

Your father is in all likelihood lying to you. It is baffling but some old people start lying. Perhaps they do not recognize it as lying and just wish it were true. Your father needs a full workup for dementia and cognitive decline. He lives with you. Take charge.

I am stuck. He is independent to a point. I pointed out to our Dr about his falling asleep in his car in the driveway after driving across town ("I was just listening to the radio"). So he had him do a sleep study. He had a cpap and threw it away (I have one too, I use EVERY night). He had his second last night and not too happy about. Gee we are only trying to keep him alive (yes I am the black sheep for that I guess). We are concerned about his reflexes and driving long drives (8 hours) and his lack of taking meds. He tells me he does. I am at the point I really dont care anymore. "do what you want", when the time comes the nurse will be taking care of him" is my opinion about now.
If I take over his meds and his Dr visits he may like it as yet again someone will be doing everything for him. He likes being doted on.
He may be giving me a line but who knows. Again it is hard to be the son and not raise my voice. If I come down on him I am being harsh. The first Christmas here he said something smart to me and I barked at him, he sulked in his room for an hour until I had to apologize Yeah fun Christmas morning. If I say something he takes offense. I try to be positive but it is hard with people around 24/7, I get no privacy. Talking to my sister is like talking to the wall. what ever I say to her will get back to him and he will tell me something different. I am not kidding.

You are certainly between a rock and hard place, TG.

If you talk to your sister, apparently she won't take it as though you're trying to get your dad the right help; she'll take it as criticism and she'll tell Dad. You'll be the bad guy.

You can't talk to dad, because he's non-compliant with everything!

You can't talk to dad's doctor, because, well, because he's "independent" at your expense.

You can't talk to anyone else in the family, because for whatever reason, you are seen as the bad guy (because you gave dad a free place to live and extra money) and if you try to do the right thing by getting some help or medical attention for dad, it'll be taken the wrong way.

I guess you're just stuck having to wait until something happens, like a fall or a blood sugar "event" that sends him to the hospital.  

When that happens, perhaps you can see your way clear to work with the discharge planning folks to get him into a good supportive living environment.

Yeah, that's what I was wondering. Maybe, he says one thing, but, tells her another.

It's tough to manage a person if they are resistant and still competent. Do you think he is? If someone is obviously doing things that are dangerous, destructive or risky, I start thinking that their judgment is just too poor. That's a tough situation. When my almost 80 year old father got his ladder to do something on his roof, I had to threaten to call 911 and both my brothers to address him.  I wasn't very calm about it.  He knew I meant it.  I guess he didn't want to get embarrassed, since he put the ladder away.  lol  I don't think he's tried that one since. 

Do you know for sure that Sister is telling dad these things? Or is he playing you off against each other?

Dads in his early 80's, no I did not know his sugars were at 50 or I am 911 and I would have taken his keys! A break, yes I do need one but it wont happen.
I try to talk to him but he wont listen (stubborn). He tells my sister what she wants to hear and manipulates the conversation. He is very good at changing the story to the listener. My wife told him she was not comfortable with him driving long hours and about his reflexes. Now that is all he can talk about how good his reflexes are. The man has to walk with a cane unless he is trying to impress someone. He has to hold himself up to get to the kitchen unless someone is watching. It is all a game with him. I am tired of the game. Everything is everyone else s fault. I am very short with him in conversation because I am so angry. too many other issues that I am angry, maybe more annoyed than angry about. Id love for him to go to my sisters for a while but wont happen. Now he is talking about going back home for a third trip (possible impending funeral). He loves to go because he gets treated like a king when he is there. Even his sister noticed the situation but if I talk to anyone it gets back to him and once again I am the evil one.

How old is your father? Is he competent? Do you know if he and his doctor discussed discontinuing his cholesterol medication? I have heard of stopping some meds for seniors in various situations. Also, do you know for sure that your sister told him it was okay to stop? What if he just told you that?

Seniors can be challenging to deal with, but, if someone tried to drive with a blood sugar of 50, I'd have to call 911. I am a type I diabetic and know what that number means. So, I'd have to insist, take keys, etc. When blood sugar is 50, the person isn't likely thinking clearly.

Maybe, you need a break. I know it might be scary to allow sister to care for him, if she's not competent. I think I'd consider how competent he is and if it would be safe.