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diane2456b Asked December 2017

What is a reasonable charge as POA?

Caring for a friend. He is in a nursing facility since June 2017. I have been named as POA and I take care of: maintaining his home, paying his bills, cleaning residence, visiting him, attending meetings at Nursing facility, shop for him and do what he needs me to do. Had to clean out his home, had a yard sale, put his place on the market. Worked with realtor. I am all he has. He is in a different city, so I have been commuting back and forth. Every time I go it's about 73 miles and I have a toll to pay. Wear and tear on my vehicle as well.

Christine73 Jan 2018
A reasonable change for being someone's POA is $0. But you're more than a POA, you're managing his life. So let's break it down.

Sale of his belongings: 15% of his profits would be a reasonable amount.

Sale of his home, where you kind of acted like a 2nd realtor, representing his interests: 2-3% of the sale price of the home would be reasonable.

Cleaning/preppping his house for sale. This service, which includes a deep cleaning (dusting, sanitizing, windows, baseboards, window linens, carpet cleaning), and arranging furniture to show the house in the best possible light, goes for $400-$700, depending on the size of the house.

Visiting your friend at nursing home: obviously you do that because you want to and it's free; you cover your own gas and tolls.

Attending meetings and being his advocate: there's a name for this service and it costs either $50 or $250 a month (I can't remember which, but you can price it with a senior care service.) Their cost will be based on the advocate being a licensed social worker who has experience with elder care/nursing home situations, knows the law and patients rights, and is able affect change when necessary. However, the nursing home knowing someone is watching is invaluable. Attending nursing home meetings, whether they are family meetings or care plan meetings, and being vocal in a way that shows everyone you're aware of what's going on is worth about $20 per meeting in my estimation (which is based on over 3 years of intense nursing home experience).

Shopping/errands: it would be reasonable for him to cover you gas and tolls and give you $50 for the day provided his errands take the better part of a day.

That's my answer to the question you asked. Now, here's my answer to the question you didn't ask.

It sounds like caring for your friend my be a little more demanding than you're able to handle right now. You may want to call one of these advocacy services and have them take on part of the load. Or, you could help him find local resources to do his shopping/errands, or you can help him do them online. Based only on the fact that he sold his house, I'm assuming that he'll be a long term resident in the facility. It would be worth it for him to discover some local resources and support for times that you are on vacation or doing something else. Good luck, and you do sound like a loyal person and a great friend. We should all have people in our lives who are as honorable as you are.

moecam Dec 2017
I'm P.O.A. my mom's financial affairs - when I asked her lawyer about it & that a bank was back-up P.O.A. [they don't do anything for free] here's how we figured it out:

Mom's lawyer said to track all time spent - that's on phone + doing paperwork + cleaning + shopping etc - go back & do as much as you can & keep a log of it - then take an average multiply by minimum wage next take 0.1% of estate [so on $500,000. you end up with $500.] - which ever is higher that's what you charge per month - with my mom the figures were within $10 so I felt it was appropriate - I rounded down a few dollars just for ease of bookkeeping -

After expenses I don't clear much but I can do a nice lunch occationally which I really enjoy

With the long distance you have I'd add the price of a big mac meal each trip [assuming you don't stay overnight] which may or may not cover all your meal but it helps - if you stay over then your lodging & meals should be included however you should only take the price of an economy hotel & modest meals - if you wish to stay at a ritzy place then you should pick up difference

Of that money I get it covers my gas, car wear & tear, stationary, part of car insurance, parking etc plus a cleaning lady twice a month so that I can take the time to do all the work involved - when you put in an average of 15 hours a week it is like a part time job over & above what your normal life was before you took this on

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Llamalover47 Dec 2017
It's any fee set by the parties involved and also the POA doc must be signed by the elder and notarized.

MaryElisabeth Dec 2017
You are an amazing individual! Your friend is blessed to have you looking after him in so many different aspects.
I hope you’ll be able to arrange for a stipend to cover your expenses as I know they add up quickly.
Bless you!

anonymous739426 Dec 2017
You are doing much more that a POA.  Check the website on what a POA is so that you are clear.  You are in a family/next of kin and general assistance role as well!  Usually there is no fee for POA because the role is limited to making decisions and acting on his requests to make decisions etc. Are you POA financial as well as responsible for lifestyle decisions as well?  This is important because it will help you decide what is your role and what isn't.  Organising bills to be paid on his request is definitely a FPOA role but this doesn't mean that its you that needs to do it... it could mean you organise or pay someone else to do the footwork - and he pays the bill for that.  But visiting and cleaning his house etc and doing odd jobs isn't role of a POA - that's more of a personal assistant/cleaner isn't it?  Attending meetings for decisions around lifestyle at the NH could be seen as a MPOA or lifestyle decision maker issues - if there is a decision to be made - if there are no decisions, you are attendance there is beyond POA.  What you seem to be seeking is payment for work you are you for him outside of a POA role; and sounds like you are doing a lot of general work for him outside of a POA role. Its sounds more like a Personal Assistant/Cleaner role.  Usually stuff like that is paid for unless you are "friends" and you voluntarily do this out of the good of your heart.  But it sounds like you feel you should be resinbursed for your efforts which is reasonable in my mind.  As FPOA you could pay the bill for a cleaner... but not actually do the work yourself.. if that makes sense.

Riley2166 Dec 2017
If you are both able to negotiate something, then put it in writing but make sure you a are both satisfied. If not, find out what it would cost if a professional stranger were doing all that you do and then determine your fees from there based on what money there is. In the meantime, be absolutely certain at the most basic minimum that you get reimbursed for every single out-of-pocket expense you pay out. Perhaps the fee could be based on what you are doing. For example, if you are handling very complex legal and financial fees, I would get more, say, than if you were vacuuming and cleaning the house. Check out fees and then come up with something sensible.

Barb53 Dec 2017
If you are all he has, I assuming you will inherit any money left over after he passes. If that’s the case, consider that as payment. If not, you do this out of the kindness of your heart and hope someone pays it forward when it’s your time! Did he own a car? Can you use that to travel to him? Good luck!

disgustedtoo Dec 2017
I have been using the DPOA to handle our mother's finances for a few years now. I redirected all her bills to me. Due to change of address to a MC place and potential rent or eventual sale of her condo, I had to apply to be "rep payee" for her federal pension and SS. This is the only legal way I could change her address so that relevant paperwork and tax documents would come to me, not her mailbox (you CANNOT forward any of these federal documents.) Even if you could, forwarding is only good for 1 year. These require special forms THEY provide (same with IRS and VA - no federal entity honors the DPOA.)

The pension took two years to work out and I just got SS approval. The booklet provided with this SS approval clearly states: "With certain exceptions, a payee may not collect a fee for services provided to the beneficiary. You can't collect a fee for services from the beneficiary, unless Social Security allows it, or you're the legal guardian authorized by a court to charge a guardian fee." The additional requirement for both SS and the pension is that I must provide reports on how the funds are used - SS specifically says it must be used FIRST for housing and food, then there are other necessities listed that can be provided with those funds, but again it does NOT allow fees for the POA. If at any time SS decides to query you or your friend, any funds provided to you might come into question. Granted you have not gone the rep payee route...yet. You indicate you are putting his home up for sale - where does his mail go now? If it all goes to that home's mailbox, you will have to go the route I did.

Most online discussions state things like the POA document must specify an arrangement for fees, some indicate reasonable expenses (such as your gas and the tolls) and others state unless there is a specific entry in the document, there would be no fees for services (handling the checking, bill payments, etc.) or any expenses.

As others suggested, if your friend is of sound mind, the two of you could enter into an agreement, however it would be best to consult with a elder care attorney, and make this legal to protect yourself!

SnoopyLove Dec 2017
I have to add, you sound like a fantastic friend!

chrismsherman Dec 2017
Check with your friend's attorney. I believe you can enter into a caregiver contract in which you can receive payment for services associated with care giving, meetings, etc. for your friend.

freqflyer Dec 2017
Diane, a reasonable charge for being Power of Attorney is whatever your friend and you decide, and have it put it into writing, signed and Notarized. If your friend is unable to make such decisions due to his health, then no pay arrangement can be made.

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