Transporting a parent against their will. Any suggestions?

Has your Dad been assigned a Court-appointed Temporary Attorney or "Attorney Ad Lidem" to represent him during the guardianship process. If he hasn't, then he should be. "Sendhelp" brings up a couple of good points. Has your Dad been declared as incompetent?

I went online to look at Arkansas’ information about guardianship and it was minimal. I have listed the websites for Arkansas and Kansas guardianship so that you can become familiar with the forms and requirement reports that you will have to make either monthly or annually to all interested parties. One thing that I found interesting on the Arkansas Legal Services website:
http://www.arlegalservices.org/node/882/guardianship
"Ending a Guardianship: A guardianship can end for many reasons, including: • the ward dying or moving out of state"

https://courts.arkansas.gov/system/files/form27.html
https://courts.arkansas.gov/forms-and-publications/court-forms/probate-division/forms

AR - Arkansas
Terminology: Guardianship
Court: Circuit Court, Juvenile Department
Web Site: https://courts.arkansas.gov/circuitcourt/index.cfm
Link to Forms: http://www.arlegalservices.org/minorguardianship
Resources: All the info one needs is here. The packet for a minor takes you to LawHelp Interactive where they walk you through the forms. It includes an online tutorial.
Notes: N/A
Notes: Guardianship rules come from state law, but the court you petition in differs by county.
________________________________________
KS - Kansas
Terminology: Guardianship
Court: District Court
Web Site: http://www.kscourts.org/Districts/
Link to Forms: The courts do not have official forms online, but Kansas Legal Services has a sample petition to be used by an attorney. Also, the Judicial Counsel (a volunteer group of lawyers who work with the Supreme Court) has sample sets of all probate forms, including guardianships but they are only available to lawyers.
Resources: Guide to Kansas Laws on Guardianship and Conservatorship
Notes: N/A
Notes: Guardianship rules come from state law, but the court you petition in differs by county.

I petitioned for guardianship of my Mother in 2017 and I found that looking at the forms for my state (Nebraska) was quite helpful because I was able to understand what my attorney was talking about. Go to the Nebraska website and look at the NEBRASKA GUARDIANSHIP FLOWCHART as that might give you an idea of the timeline for the guardianship of your Dad. Each state has different rules and regulations about guardianship so you will need to follow the regulations of Arkansas.

https://supremecourt.nebraska.gov/programs-services/guardianship-conservatorship

Hope that this information helps you to better understand the guardianship process. Good Luck and God Bless!

Do not transport him by car.  Do this the legal way.

1) He should not be left alone, at all, anywhere.
2) He should have his own attorney, or at the very least, a patient's rights advocate while in rehab.
3) He should not be taken against his will anywhere.

Let him decide what he wants when declared incompetent and is without choices.
Given options, he may change his mind and cooperate. Are you sure he is incompetent, requires a guardianship? How old is he?

Thank you for the clarification DeeAnna. It is just frustrating when we have him some where safe in Kansas but have to take him back to Arkansas to live alone until we get this resolved.

Have a great day.

quiltygma,
You stated that it "We then found out from the attorney that dad needed to be physically back in the state of Arkansas throughout the process. Makes no sense when we are trying to keep someone safe but can't afford to move to another state for a month or more during the slow process." If you look at the situation purely from the legal viewpoint; then YES, it does make sense. Think about it. Can police officers from Arkansas go into Kansas and arrest someone who is living in Kanas and take the person back to Arkansas? NO, they have to contact the Kansas police, have the Kansas authorities arrest the person and then send the person back to Arkansas. Can a judge in Arkansas make a ruling about a judicial case in Kansas or any other state? NO. That is why your Dad has to go back to Arkansas because his LEGAL RESIDENCE is in Arkansas.

I know there are transport vehicles but you pay for it yourself. And how far they’ll transport I don’t know.

Thanks everyone for all of your thoughts and suggestions, they have been very helpful.

A few answers to your questions:

1. Dad does not qualify for Medicaid
2. Our court date for guardianship is in Arkansas on July 10th.
3. Dad has been living on his own but is currently in a rehab center since he fell a few weeks ago and ended up in the hospital.
4. He does know that we plan to put him in a facility in Kansas. He was very angry when he was served the paperwork. He doesn't remember the 5 pages we have documented with police reports, etc. of his activities over the past year. He thinks we are trying to take his money and claimed he was going to get the best attorney to fight us. He also disowned me over the phone but, after a week or so when I called him he forgot about that.
5. Currently he has enough money to move into memory care without selling his home immediately.

We have had multiple health care workers, etc. state that he is the most stubborn unreasonable person that have ever met! Currently he is still driving. After along illness last summer we took away his car keys when he wouldn't agree to go to independent or assisted living at that time but he just called a locksmith and had new ones made.

Thank you DeeAnna for your comments. I will check with our attorney on the "guardianship across state lines" question. The unfortunately thing is, he was living with my brother for a short time in Kansas and we wanted to start the guardianship process. We then found out from the attorney that dad needed to be physically back in the state of Arkansas throughout the process. Makes no sense when we are trying to keep someone safe but can't afford to move to another state for a month or more during the slow process.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Well.

What stage have you got to with the guardianship application?
Roughly, if all goes smoothly, when will this move take place?

The reason I ask is twofold.

#1 A lot can change naturally in a person with dementia. His combativeness may lessen or worsen, for example; and there may be other, sound reasons for addressing his mood difficulties which might also, in parallel, make him easier to handle. N.b. I am NOT suggesting you start doping him to the eyeballs purely to make him nice and compliant. I am just saying don't meet trouble halfway.

#2 Depending on how much time you have to plan and work up to the move, there are various strategies you might adopt.

Let's say it all goes ahead. Your guardianship application is approved, you take over all responsibility for decisions, you approach the memory care unit, they carry out an assessment, you agree an admission date.

No wife to take into consideration, I assume? What about his home? - will you be able to cover his fees without having to sell it first?

Anyway. There you are with an agreed admission date. You then have to plan the move.

The MC may be able to assist with this. If they don't provide any kind of escort service or support themselves, they may know of specialist transport services that will. Ask.

Do not discuss the move with your father in advance. This may go against the grain, because it is natural to want to involve people in plans that concern them; but in Alzheimers Disease forward planning is a lost skill and even in the *best* *case* scenario you do not burden people in this way. Let alone when you know an event is going to upset them. Truly, I promise, best practice is to reassure people in the current moment and demonstrate to them that they are safe and all is well.

Instead, then, use that time to mend and cultivate a better relationship with your father. Do what you can to restore his confidence in you, so that when Moving Day comes he is more comfortable following your lead. This may make you privately feel like a complete rat - there you are being nice and lovely to him and all the while plotting to lock him away - but that you will just have to suck up. What you are doing is acting in his best interests, so let that be your consolation.

Some states require that the Court has to give its approval PRIOR to the vulnerable person being moved from one state to another state. (I know that Nebraska does.) You need to talk to your attorney before you make any further plans in case the judge decides that you CANNOT move your Dad from Arkansas to Kansas. Also, look at Kansas Guardianship rules and regulations so that you know what is expected of you as guardian of someone is that state.

Also, Medicaid is administered and governed by each state so you need to check to see if your Dad will qualify for Kansas Medicaid prior to moving him to Kansas.
{Good thought Guestshopadmin!}

Is your Dad living in his own home right now? Maybe you need to contact the Area Agency on Aging in Arkansas to see if they can give you the name of a Social Worker who can help you through the process and make sure that all "i's" have been dotted and all "t's" have been crossed. The tiniest item could derail your Dad's move to Kansas so you really need to make sure that all the legal aspects of the transfer are looked into and addressed properly before you put your Dad in your car. Good Luck.

Is he in memory care now? My dad is in memory care 3 states away from me. I thought about moving him but the logistics, insurance issues, address changes etc would be a nightmare.

Plus he has finally adjusted to his facility and I don’t want to start from scratch again.

My brother is an EMT who now does only transfers, no 911 calls.

They are equipped to handle most things--but yes, if dad is going to be combative, you better plan to keep him as sedated as possible. Talk this through with the dr. Put a plan in place--such as moving his personal stuff ahead of him showing up, set up his new room and have it ready for him when he arrives.

I'd call and ask for pricing. It's less than a 911 transport, but it will still be expensive--but ask yourself, could you handle the drive with your dad and what if he becomes violent while you're driving? Sometimes we do things "on the cheap" and it's not worth it. I drive mother occasionally and I will spend the next 24 hrs with my back on ice b/c she is so hard to move.

also once you arrive at your destination, it will/can be hard to get him out of the car.

I drove my dad back from a hospital ER visit (ambulance took him). and once back at the AL, he refused to get out.

Um is he on Medicaid? Because Medicaid stops at the state border and you have to requalify. And in different surroundings his dementia will blow up. Just a thought you need paperwork at all times so if he accuses you of kidnapping? And make sure the Court does not have a problem with him moving out of state due to reporting requirements.

If he is going to be THAT combative, maybe you need to hire a medical transport company to transfer your Dad to the new facility. It might expensive, but then so is a broken jaw. :-}

Google "medical transport company" for Arkansas and see what comes up. You could also ask the local hospital which company they use to transport patients who are too sick for their families to take them, but don't need the full "Paramedic" version of transport. You state "3 hours", how many miles will you be traveling?

IF you do take your Dad by car, you may have to ask that he be given "extra" medications to "dope him up" to decrease his aggressive and combative behaviors. Which if he is "really doped up", then the medical transport company might be the best option anyway as your Dad might not be able to stand without assistance or even be able to get into your car for the journey.