Am I financially responsible for my mom?

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Stormy85 Asked November 2018

Am I financially responsible for my mom?

Hello. My mom lived with me for about 10 yrs in a wheelchair. She got along fine with her disabilities. During that time it was agreed that I would pick up the tab for her expenses. In return she signed over some investments that she had. We recently set her up for an assisted living center. She has insurance to cover her expenses there.

Now my family found out she signed over the investments to me to cover her expenses here and feel I have stolen their money. So am I obligated in some manner to pay my siblings some restitution of some type? They seldom visited or helped with mom. Mom was of sound mind when we made the agreement and her investment guy told the family that he asked her if she wanted to do that and she assured him that she did. Just a little confused on what I should be doing. Thanks for your help. Bob

Assisted Living Financial Planning Paying for Care

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score 0 · Answer 1

Look. Why don't you write down all the numbers on a statement and share the information with your relatives. Otherwise they'll continue to nurture their sense of grievance indefinitely and there's no need to let it happen.

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score 1 · Answer 2

I just reread all the posts, and I'll stick by my first one. If this is still going on, I would again suggest that you did a rough calculation, in writing, and presented it to the siblings. And it was an agreement between you and your mother, then definitely of full mind, and they can argue it out with her if they want.

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score 0 · Answer 3

I think this is the crucial piece of the jigsaw, isn't it? -

"During that time it was agreed that I would pick up the tab for her expenses. In return she signed over some investments that she had."

Well, you didn't pick up the tab for her expenses, exactly, did you; you used her money, which she gave you for the purpose, to cover or at least partially compensate for her expenses.

That is fine, there is nothing wrong with it, unless for some reason it left her with a massive credit balance. Did it? Did the sums balance out, more or less, or did the investments amount to a significant underpayment or overpayment?

If you still have a large fund on your hands which is, when you look back, actually your mother's money even if technically it is now your property, then I suppose you might want to continue to regard it as your mother's money and at least mentally return it to her hypothetical estate. As long as your mother is still with us that might be the safest thing to do anyway. It sounds as if she has invested wisely in her insurance and is now benefiting from that, but things can and do go wrong - God forbid, but they do.

Then, looking ahead... Has your mother made a will?

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Thanks for your reply. None of her money was used for the expenses. The money was actually invested and one reason it was not taken out was that we would have to pay early penalties. At the time I believe we were looking to purchase her a handicap van. My job at the time was used to cover the expenses. It was a choice pay the penalties or use my check. We used my check and left the money invested. Thanks Bob

(0)

score 3 · Answer 4

I do not see the need to "pay restitution" but if you want to play a game do this...
Figure what 10 years of "room and board" would be. (divide all the bills including gas, electric, garbage pick up, water bill, cable, phone, house insurance, car insurance...)
Figure what 10 years of paid caregiver would have cost and figure an increase every 6 months or so to keep up with her decline. Don't forget that is 24/7, 365 days and that costs more than hourly caregivers.
Figure what 10 years of "Uber" service would have cost, store, shopping, doctor visits, take her to church, movies.....
Were any changes made to the house to accommodate her, if so add that in as well.

Now bottom line how much have you really profited from the transfer? But this has been a game...you do not "owe" anything. ...well maybe a "thank you for caring for Mom...but nothing else.

**please note I am not related and might feel differently if I were a sibling and "lost out" on a $200,000,000 pay out!!!**

Helpful Answer (3)

I don't know if there has been any of this going on, but you might also feel differently if you'd been constantly hearing how marvellous and dedicated your sibling was in taking his mother in and then later discovered that it hadn't in fact cost him a bean, or even on the contrary had contributed substantially to his family's lifestyle.

You especially might fall into that trap if you'd never known what it was like to have 24/7 responsibility for your mother's welfare - because who can put a price on that?

(3)

score 2 · Answer 5

The investments were signed over to you for her care, she was of sound mind at the time and her investment representative double checked with her to verify she wanted to do this. You were her caretaker for 10 years and incurred expenses for her care. Sounds like you should have done it for free so THEY could have the money. You did not "steal" it, it was transferred to you in exchange for care expenses, how much did they contribute in either time or money during the 10 years she was with you? Any guesses? Mine is $0. Keep it, don't let them bully or guilt you into giving to them.

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score 0 · Answer 6

I don't see any need for "restitution" - I'm assuming that mom was competent, that the remuneration was reasonable for services provided and that you did indeed carry out your part of the bargain. It is entirely fair and reasonable for mom to pay for expenses and care - in fact it is wise to set up a reasonable care-giving plan so that caregiver is compensated on an as you go basis; if Medicaid is later needed, then this should not cause a gifting penalty. I think that in these cases financial transparency is wise - all out in the open so to speak. Then, if there are objections mom can counter them and make it clear that it is her competent decision to make a caregiver contract. Secrecy breeds suspicion. But I have to wonder - did your sibs think you should do all this "free of charge" so to speak?

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score 3 · Answer 7

What seems to amaze me is how siblings who want nothing to do with helping mom, but are so willing to get the money, house, and whatever they can, and never think about what is best for mom little long what the other sibling has done to take care of mom.

I wouldn't explain anything to them & if they push. I would push back with how I not only took care of our mom for 10 yrs, and who do you think will pay for her care in the futer? Not you! And I would leave it that way. If mom gave you the investment she had her reasons, and from the sound of it she isn't telling anyone.
Sometimes we think our parents don't see our siblings for who they are, but they do! (For the most part)
You don't owe them anything at this point--if ever!

Good Luck

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score 2 · Answer 8

You know, this just continues to amaze me.

My SIL had POA for her Mom who after SILs father died got herself into debt. Spending money set aside for living expenses. My SIL got her out of more than one jam. Mom was still cognitive but was leanjng towards dementia. In comes the sister. She takes Mom to a lawyer and has SILs POA revoked and her assigned. SIL said OK, her is alk Moms stuff now u handle it. Which she didn't allowing bills to become unpaid. All SILs work down the drain. So, SIL had Mom revoke sister's POA and again assign her. Mom is now pretty much into Dementia. She is in independent living, SIL looking into AL. SIL took cell away because Mom still giving money to anyone who calls. Finds out sister gave her another one. When asked sister why, sister said she wanted to be able to talk to Mom. In looking at the call log, sister had called Mom once in 3 weeks. SIL was able to sell Moms house at a very good price. First thing out of sister's mouth is how much of that are she and brother going to get. Really! Its Moms money for her care!

Helpful Answer (2)

you are so right. In my husband's family I saw two nightmares over "money left for them" (to adult siblings) People feel they are entitled to get the house $$$ auntie had for 54 years, BUT want other taxpayers to fund auntie's 24/7 care under medicaid for the indigent. My OWN mother always lorded it over me when she was angry "I will cut you put of my will" she said it so often that I walked away as an adult knowing it was NEVER MY MONEY, and I was tired of hearing that threat. Sure enough my step-brother made sure there was zero for me when she died, by her changing the will at some point.. Guess what? STILL not MY money. He moved in and cared for her (somewhat) and got free rent of course, but to me he got the money for a good reason. I was 3000 miles away and no way to move back and move in to help.. All my life I have taken that lesson, saved for my own old age, and NOW have a Fiduciary (Certified professionals) executor and medical decider FOR me. Relatives are never able to truly be fair, there is always some ridiculous resentment. I learned of a screaming match- in a funeral home PARKING lot- in DH's family when the elderly auntie I mentioned above died, and 'long lost relatives' had her change her will to them a year earlier. So DH's side of the family got zero--but had expected $100K each. Never their money!~ As long as auntie was stable she could give ALL the money to charity if she wanted. Some Boomers see older relatives as a 'for-sure' bank account in the future. Surprise..it gets ugly fast, even with 'loving' family. https://pfac-pro.org
There is a REAL move to hire a professional so family won't have to fight it out, wishes are followed, and no crazy SIL or drunk ex-hubby can interfere. I recommend looking into it, your state should have an PFAC group.

(1)

score 0 · Answer 9

Yes! same thing I thought. Its Moms money and she has asked you to handle it. I would think you have told them the investments go to Moms care. Did Mom help pay towards bills when she lived with you, then some of that money helped with her expenses. They are entitled to nothing until Mom passes. Just keep good records showing where money has gone. Since Mom put it in your name, its you she wanted it to go to. If there is any left when she passes, its up to you how you want to split it if at all. Just keep the Lions share.

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Thanks for your reply. Mom did not pay towards any of the bills at the house. I have covered vehicles like her handicap van she still uses. I still pay her phone which I will till she passes. She did pay her own medical bills medicine etc. If she got low on funds I would occasionally transfer some money to her account. She in return did have me transfer some funds back. We worked together like this for many years. She asked my sister to live with her in the family house that she sold them and was told no. My brother is close to where she is living now and does help her occasionally. They wanted her bank account transferred to them. So I closed the one here and let them open one there. If she needs to come back to live with me the door will still be open. I know that neither of my siblings would be open to that. They just want to live their own lives. I had a major heart attack while mom lived with me and I am on SSD. But I still seldom had my sister who lived 20 miles from us come to the house.

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score 3 · Answer 10

Stormy85 Your mom is still alive right? How are your siblings complaint about you stealing their money, when it's your mom's money?

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score 3 · Answer 11

Tell them that it is really unfortunate that inheritance is a gift and not a birth right.

Just like paying for your own room, board and care are obligations not gifts.

It is quite sickening how people claim their parents money as their own while the parents are still alive, parana syndrome.

You did a great job caring for her for 10 years. That deal was between you and your mom, no explanation needed.

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score 3 · Answer 12

Your mother is in Assisted Living, and it sounds as though she is quite on top of things generally. It was her decision to make the financial arrangements with you, and if any explanation is needed it would be best coming from her. For that matter, if she wants to tell anyone to mind their own business, it would still be best coming from her. If you have ‘stolen’ anyone’s money, it’s hers, not the other family members. And obviously, you haven’t stolen anything.

If you want to smooth things over, it could be a good idea to provide a rough estimate of what you have provided over the last 10 years. That includes room and board, other expenses you have paid, and (most importantly) a commercial rate of pay for the personal care you have provided. It should be at least comparable to the cost of her AL. That might provide a different way for your family members to look at things.

If they make it clear that their interest in her and her living arrangements is solely about their potential inheritance, your mother might like to tell them that she is thinking of changing her will. That’s if it gets really nasty!

Helpful Answer (3)

I wouldn't even tell them but I would specifically name them and give them zero in my will.

Jjust heartbreaking how some people have entitlement issues.

(1)

score 6 · Answer 13

If there was a tacit agreement between you and Mom that you would be made "whole" as you took care of her, then it's nobody's business but yours and Mom's.
You're not still receiving money/investments now are you?

Money is the great divide in families, so often.

If mom is still able to mentally grasp all this, ask her to make peace with the sibs who didn't help out (I am guessing that you were the 100% hands on caregiver).

In reality, nobody owes ANYBODY anything for an inheritance.

I'd say you owe no one anything. And good for you for caring for Mom all those years.

Helpful Answer (6)

Thanks for your reply. The investment was a lump sum transaction. I did pay all the fees and paid for the furniture when we moved her into her assisted living facility. She did call me saying she was running short paying for her expenses at her assisted living unit. So I sent her a full months payment on all her expenses. She seems to be doing well now.

(1)

Am I financially responsible for my mom?

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