Dad incredibly tight with money - BUT he's loaded! Any advice?

Paul; with regard to not wanting to use taxis or public transport, my mom was much the same way after she turned 87. She gave up her check book. Asked me to come once a week to set up her meds. Refused all sort of useful suggestions like taking a taxi.

It took us an embarrassingly long time to find out that she had developed Mild Cognitive Impairment. It was later discovered that she'd had a stroke and was left with the reasoning skills of a 5 year old.

All of this "pay attention to me" behavior was actually extreme anxiety akin to what one would see in a small child.

Have you spoke to dad's doc yet?

Paul, one of the drawbacks of the NHS is that it has engendered a feeling in us all that absolutely everything to do with healthcare should be free of charge at the point of delivery. Including transport to and from healthcare related sites, and parking, and meals, and dressings, and phones, and on-site entertainment...

Hospital parking charges unite the country more effectively than any social policy unit could ever dream of.

So your father is by no means alone in resenting the idea that he should have to pay for a taxi.

And yes although there is a tremendous effort to provide patient transport, mainly through volunteer drivers... how can I put it without feeling disloyal? The services often leave a lot to be desired. Your father has probably already sat on a horrible chair in a draught for hours on end waiting for his driver to herd up a couple of other patients - last seen vanishing into the black hole known as X-Ray & Imaging - before finally taking him home via Aberystwyth.

Stop arguing with him. Take a leaf out of his book and delegate, ruthlessly. And if you don't think it's fair to delegate to family members who aren't much younger than he is, delegate to service providers instead.

If you were feeling evil, you could mention to the cousin that you're sure your father will want to pay for the petrol.

He'll struggle on for years and make everyone's life a misery...

Are you happy with that?

Look. There are no victims, there are only volunteers. If you do not want your father to go on making your life a misery, get a grip.

Your father depends on your continual attention to him in his current situation. Withdraw your attention, and refer him to his local authority instead. He is entitled to a needs assessment, his social care team will discuss the budget with him, you do not need to get involved. If the social care team decide he's fine where and as he is, take their word for it.

This business of his money being wasted...

Your father must be aware, I'm sure all of his peers regularly point out, that he can't take it with him. He doesn't seem to find the idea of giving it away to his sons particularly enticing. So... what does he think the money is for?

The housing association will be able to tell you what happens about sales. You can look them up online, all the information will be there.

H'm. Come to think of it, housing associations are often linked to housing services, too; and if the house is falling into disrepair that's their asset that's deteriorating. It shouldn't be too difficult to get them to take an interest.

If you're having the same conversation with your father twenty times over without result you have already gone mad, QED, because repeating an action and expecting a different result is one defining symptom of madness.

Take your focus off your father's shortcomings and put it instead on potentially productive courses of action that you can take without his input.

Paul; Replying to your "knowing my dad, what will happen":

I can't tell you how often we did this with mom, or how often I've heard people on these forum proclaim that their parents would give up and die in a facility.

"Mother would NEVER bear that". "My parents would DIE in a nursing home". "People who go to facilities die within months of admittance"

I guess some do. Those who are very old and very ill when they enter.

My mother lived for nearly two years in a lovely Independent Living Facility, blossoming as she had NEVER done in her life. She spent 4 1/2 years in a nursing home, getting her extensive medical needs looked after.

When we admitted her, we thought she had maybe 6 weeks, post stroke, post broken hip repair.

DON'T let your father make you miserable. You have the power to prevent that. If you think his needs are hooey, don't attend to them. Work with his doctor on getting an evaluation to convince of his REAL needs and as CM says, go look at those facilities yourself. Then work on making his going HIS idea.

Not really relevant, just a bad memory prompted by Paul’s reply. My first FIL in Essex with dementia was unsafe (leaving gas jets on etc). His care was then literally in the local Workhouse. It had been ‘repurposed’ but everyone of his age knew it as the old Workhouse. One more thing to break MIL’s heart.

Re: visiting care homes - Did you go yourself and see the place beforehand? There's nothing stopping you doing that, and making friends with the manager who can then help you with getting him to come and have a look for himself.

You must remember your father is in no way unusual in his anxieties or any other of his feelings, and you are nothing like alone in the challenges you're facing with him.

Once you've met some of the older people and their families who *have* got through the maze and found an answer everybody's happy with - or as happy as it gets, anyway - you will feel so much more positive.

The alternatives are:
You go on banging your head against a brick wall until you bleed.
You harden your heart and your father struggles on until he's carried into a nursing home with no choice in the matter whatsoever and takes what he's given.

The second is a valid option, by the way. The first you already know is pretty much unbearable.

I don't know who sold him that property scheme. They were designed to help first time buyers get a foot on the property ladder, I can't see what earthly good it was to him - just ties up his savings in a property he doesn't own outright and still has to pay rent on and which will now be harder to sell because he either has to have the freeholder's agreement or sell it to the freeholder... daft. It's with a housing association, is it?

Never mind.

So does his 50K in the bank include his estimated house equity, or is that as well?

One of the services that local authorities provide is an assessment from a finance officer. This includes a review of assets and income with a view to explaining benefits entitlements and thresholds. A nice person comes to your house and goes through it with you, it's not scary and they're not selling you anything. Well! - obviously they're not selling you anything! They're trying to discourage you from buying anything you don't need.

In any case, if he gets upset when you talk to him about money then don't do it - there are plenty of trustworthy people you can call on if these conversations need to be had.

I don't suppose there's a snowflake's chance of getting him to do LPAs?

Dear Paul, let’s face it, your father is a mean old git. But look on the bright side – that 100 year old furniture in Old South Wales might polish up really well. Even the WWII utility stuff looks pretty good these days. Yours again, Margaret

My father banks his whole paycheck every week (yes he is working at 83).
Lives on about 10k in cash for the year. He has about 2 million in the bank.

I am waiting for the board of health or aps to show up at their house.
I dont think he has spent anything on the house in 20 years.

There is not a thing I can do until they injure themselves

If he can exist in this environment without health issues then I would leave it alone. If the home becomes a hazard then you should become more concerned. Would you rather have him spending money from the companies that take advantage of the elderly and filling the house with needless stuff you would then have to get rid of. Before my mother had to enter AL she did a combination of both. Nothing was fixed, she had a useless cleaning person once a month and she was buying items from Publishers Clearing House because she was going to become one of their big winners if she continued to deal with them in her mind so I had to deal with a dirty apartment and lots of useless stuff and she never did win any of those prizes supposedly promised and it was a huge hassle to get them to close her account. We all have crosses to bear. If his house doesn't reek and you can move through it you are somewhat fortunate. But I still do feel for you and understand the frustration and hope it doesn't detoriate.

Who are you to decide how Dad spends his money? And no it does not sound like he thinks it is Monopoly Money, he knows it is real, he worked hard to save it and it could not be easily replaced.

If his money goes to paying for his care at some point in the future, isn't that an appropriate use of it?

£50 for his son's wedding present is a bit shabby. On the other hand... what did he give you and your wife? And, is this your brother's first marriage?

Other than that, his belongings are his belongings. They might look like tat to you, but he likes them and they are his old friends. Leave them alone. If the carpet is becoming a trip hazard you can either take the bull by the horns, rip it out without permission and replace it yourself (you won't make any friends, and you'll have to pay for it yourself); or you can turn it or rearrange the furniture; or you can weld it to the floor with Duck tape.

Are you making any progress on identifying possible care home placements for him?

He doesn't own his house, does he? - or did he buy it through Right To Buy?

I spent nearly $1,000,000 on 5 1/2 years of my mother’s care, because it was HER MONEY.

I would have preferred that she had made her house prettier or more comfortable while she could have enjoyed it, but fact was, she didn’t.

Her money, just the same, and she (and I) were Blessed by the fact that she had the best NH care I could provide.

Paul; My mom was born into a poor family in the US in 1923. Her father was killed by a car in 1925; her older brother had to leave High School to support the family. They were living in straightened circumstances BEFORE the Great Depression.

My parents were frugal to a fault. Lived well below their means. Taught us not to expect any inheritance (a very useful way to grow up, I recommend it highly).

My mother also saved money while on a pension. No, she didn't refurbish her home. We WERE able to convince her to hire a cleaning service and a lawn service, simply by telling her that we, her children and inlaws were NOT available to do those tasks.

Your father sounds very much like a man of his generation. And 50K pounds is hardly "loaded".

Stop arguing. If he wants to give someone a small, rather than a lavish gift, that's his look out.

Tell him "no, I can't possibly do that" when he "expects" something. He's saying "no" to you, yes?

Why can't you say "no" to your father? Do you think that means you don't love him?

Do you let your children walk all over you?