Can a nursing home ask you to surrender grandchildren's life insurance policies?

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G

Granddaughter86 Asked July 2019

Can a nursing home ask you to surrender grandchildren's life insurance policies?

It was decided after a few hospital and rehabilitation visits that my grandmother (80) would be put into assisted living facility.

My grandmother receives social security, and a survivor pension from my grandfather... My mother emptied her savings accounts and surrended the remaining balance of my grandfather's life insurance policy.

However, the issue is my grandfather had taken out insurance policies on the grandchildren and great grandchildren that he paid for and that continued to be paid for from his accounts after he died in December 2017.

Now, the nursing home is saying that we have to "gift" the policies to my grandmother so they can have the balance. Gerber (where the policies are from) said no...

My mother believes I should do it because she spoke to a lawyer who said that's allowed because it was paid for by my grandmother's account... but Gerber (where the policies are from said it sounds illegal and a bad business practice.)

I'd honestly like more opinions on the matter and some guidance before making a decision because I'm the decision maker for my own and my children's...

Assisted Living Life Insurance Paying for Care

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score 1 · Answer 1

Well, unfortunately your lack of knowledge as to how the insurance was paid will not float with Medicaid. Not that I agree with what Medicaid has to say about everything, I have represented many who I feel have been mistreated by Medicaid, we won some, and lost others. Is Gerber aware that Medicaid is involved? There appears to be confusion on both the part of Gerber and the home.

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The nursing home office and Gerber spoke directly with Gerber making me beneficiary and the ultimate decision maker... Which is really why I'm in the middle, honestly.

Gerber representative said it sounded illegal and encouraged me to not sign it over. Of course, probably for their own monetary reasoning.

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score 1 · Answer 2

Can you take over making the payments now? That may solve the problem as GM will no longer have the money coming out of her account.

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That is what I planned.. it was technically only one payment made since my grandfather's death so it seems pretty ridiculous to sign over the entire value of the policies over to them over a few hundred dollars total (I believe the payments averaged around a hundred for each child)

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score 1 · Answer 3

Ok with the additional information this has taken on another life. The problem is that although, in essence, you are the guardian, due to your minor children being the beneficiaries, it has been paid out of your parents joint account to continue said policies. This is a big no, no as when in the Medicaid system, all funds are to be used for the receipts only.The home has been notified by Medicaid of this and if not turned over towards the AL charges, she will be dropped from the program and hounded for the money. The home also can and will evict her. As for hiring an elder law attorney, this would be an enormous expense, unless you have money to burn I would do as required.

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They have definitely threatened to evict her but... We (myself, my mother and my grandmother) weren't even aware of the continued payments to the joint account.

My grandfather was very private about his finances..I honestly forgot about the existence of the policies.

The nursing home called gerber directly and that is when the policies were transferred to my name as the parent. And Gerber said I have to make the decision to "gift" it to them... Which do what made me suspicious on the entire activity.

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score 0 · Answer 4

I hardly like to stick my nose in here, but perhaps what complicates this issue is that the premiums on your children's policies continued to be paid by your grandmother after your grandfather's death. Assuming that his accounts passed to her.

Who, then, owned the accrued value of these policies from Dec 2017 onwards? And who controlled them? Could your grandmother, theoretically, have cashed them in herself?

And how much have premiums totalled since then? - because certainly that could be seen as "gift" money in Medicaid terms.

Goodness knows I'm no expert, but I certainly wouldn't rely on the opinion of a life assurance provider who would like me to continue paying premiums. What about your grandmother's Medicaid advisors, from when she first applied - has your mother tried asking them what to do about these policies?

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After my grandfather's death, the policies remained in his name and have never been in my grandmother's name.

The nursing home called Gerber directly for the policies and that is when Gerber transferred the beneficiary to me as the parent.

My grandfather paid on the policy once a year, so it would've only been one payment made after his death.

My mother hasn't spoken to any advisor of Medicaid. She spoke to lawyers because of the policies because they threatened to evict my grandmother over the policies.

I wasn't sure if my mother was being railroaded by the nursing home, hence my hesitance to sign the policies over. My children are still relatively young so I honestly doubt it holds much value.. it's just the situation seems very odd to me.

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score 1 · Answer 5

As others have suggested, please consult an attorney. And, if this is indeed a illegal scam, when you can do so safely, report the home to the proper authorities so that this does not happen to other families. Sounds fishy to me....

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score 0 · Answer 6

First, its not the Nursing home that is requesting them its Medicaid. If she is on Medicaid, talk to them.

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It is corporate and their financial department from the nursing home who is calling me about it, not Medicaid.

They said as she is on Medicaid, they are entitled to everything before Medicaid pays.

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score 1 · Answer 7

Is she on Medicaid? Sounds like whole life policies. I can say that I have been exposed to this, and that it was a bully tactic by the home, and my investigation revealed that is just that. My client and I refused to do so, as I represented her as her attorney in fact, they backed off. There is so much more to this, but, at the offset I would do nothing. I have to question how the home found out about these policies, under normal circumstances this would not be uncovered.

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She is on Medicaid.

It is four policies... they were all in my grandfather's name, but are now in my name.. one is mine and the other three are my minor children. He opened them when we were all born and always paid them. When he died, it continued to be paid for out of the same account it always was, except it was now in my grandmother's name.

Gerber told them outright that they were now on my name and it is my decision to gift them alone.

However, they are threatening to evict my grandmother from the nursing home for attempting to hide funds (the policies).

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score 0 · Answer 8

If the policies are whole life it’s most likely legal. The children are not the owners of the policies. The grandmother is probably the Owner/ beneficiary since grandfather is dead. Gerber policies are generally whole life. Depending on the age of the policy there maybe some accumulated cash value and that is what the nursing home is after.

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Not if the grand children are the beneficiaries. They are now the owners of these policies and funds, and, should have been paid directly to them already. We need more information.

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