Mom dependent on Dad for some care and meals, now Dad has terminal liver cancer. Still in apartment together. How to care for both of them?

Does your mother have cognitive issues?

OldMol, do you think that your father just can't come to terms with his situation at this time?   A terminal diagnosis is a real challenge for anyone.   Perhaps he needs help in acclimating himself to it so that he can address changes.

I've been a firm believer of getting assistance from those who've gone through the experience, which is why I suggest that Gilda's Club members be brought in to provide, if nothing more, mental respite care.    They've been through the cancer journey, either themselves or with their families and/or friends.    They can provide support through their family activities, and help newly diagnosed people help to adapt.

And I would go to them in a heartbeat before I even considered social workers.   Just my opinion though.

I did go to one meeting and was just overwhelmed by the emotional agony faced by those newly diagnosed.   They also had difficulty comprehending the diagnosis, especially for the more aggressive cancers.

Have you talked with your Dad's doctor about is prognosis? Preferably in front of both Mum and Dad. Ask the doctor straight out, how long does Dad have and how quickly will he decline? I think all three of you need a wake up call. Perhaps the doctor too.

I am happy to read that you have some boundaries in place, but being there 3 days a week is giving them a false sense of independence. What happens if you get the flu and cannot go to them for a week? You are correct you cannot provide care to 2 ailing seniors, especially when your own health is put at risk.

A friends bil was diagnosed with Liver Cancer, given 3-4 months to live and died 2 weeks later, he was in his late 50's. My Mum's best friend had it and took longer to die, but was quickly debilitated by the disease. She was in her early 50's and depended on her husband who was also in his 50's for care.

"Dad, I know that you are reluctant to move before you think you and mom are "ready". But the thing is, your health is only going to get worse, and you aren't going to be in control of how fast that happens. The hard truth is that you may decline quickly, need to be in a nursing home overnight, which leaves mom alone. How the heck do you expect me to make a good plan for BOTH of you if you, the reasonable one, won't work with me?

You need to understand that if you are in a NH and mom is at home alone, I'm going to have to abandon one of you. Please don't make me have to make that choice."

So, of course, you COULD kill yourself running between the NH where dad is dying and running to mom's house where she isn't getting adequate care, is refusing to eat, bathe or cooperate in any way and is wailing over how awful her life is. Believe me, we've seen LOTS of folks on this board try to do just that.

Please don't even think about trying that.

There was a couple in my mom's assisted living place. The woman helped to take care of her husband until he died, but she did not have to cook and clean or attend to every need of her husband's. They were both usually in their room, but she could leave him to the care givers to go work on a puzzle or watch a movie in the other rooms. After he died she is now much more active in the facility, out in the common room or kitchen all the time interacting with others. I wondered about how my parents would have done in that situation if my dad had lived long enough to go to assisted living with my mom. I do think they would have fought the idea of it, as most people would, but it really seems the only answer here. It might be good for you to begin the search for a facility that would take both of them and convince them to at least look into it with you. When it gets too difficult for your dad he might give in.

Oldmol, you sound like you're on the verge of burnout right now, trying to solve an insoluble problem.

If you go down, who is going to advocate for your parents? It behooves you to conserve your energies for what is important.

Is dad on hospice? Can you arrange a "needs assessment" by an agency or the local Area Agency on Aging while YOU are present to counteract your parents' charm and showtiming?

Sadly, many folks here with uncooperative elders have found that the only way through this caregiving maze is to wait for a fall or serious illness that la is an elder in the hospital and leads to placement.

I cant blame him! But you need to make it clear to him that you lack the capacity to respond to their every emergency.

The choice here is stark. Your father needs to balance the thought that mom will be left without care and support when he becomes ill because it's just not your job to race along icy roads to get to her some dark and stormy night.

I did that once. Nearly got killed by a truck spinning out on ice in front of me.

Sat mom down and said "I can't do this anymore". And meant it.

Many eventualities can be planned for and this is one of them.

I would talk to dad alone, convince him that he needs to be the hero, outlining the care that your mother will need and that there is no one to provide the 24/7 care she requires.

If he says he is going to AL, she will follow, maybe not the same day, but very soon afterwards. Everyone needs to band together and, be on the same page.

I was in a similar situation with my mother and stepdad. SD still resists the idea of assisted living, though Mom wants to make the move. For many years, Mom was the one who was taking care of SD and he thought that was just fine, even though it was taking a terrible toll on her, physically and emotionally. Then Mom developed Parkinsonism and her ability to care for him dropped dramatically. SD still doesn't want to move, saying they can make do with occasional caregivers and their Life Alert pendants. But Mom is saying, "Yes, NOW is the time." She has put down a deposit at an ALF she likes and they are awaiting an open apartment.

I encouraged this decision by asking Mom and SD, "What if . . . ?" SD, what are you going to do when Mom has a fall and winds up in the hospital and physical therapy? What's going to happen when SD has another stroke and Mom (who sleeps in a different room) doesn't find him till hours later? And so on. Presenting them with the worst-case scenarios helped Mom understand the reality and urgency of their situation.

In your case, it would be, "How is Dad going to stay as strong as possible for as long as possible if he has to take care of Mom all the time?" "What is Mom going to do if Dad takes a sudden, bad turn for the worse?" Getting into an ALF is not like checking into a hotel. You've got to go through all the admission stages.

Good luck. I know you will rest better if your parents are in a community where they can get the additional care they need. But if they refuse to move, there is nothing you can do about it. This is ultimately their choice and you will have to learn to "roll with it." That's a term I heard on this forum from my own posts and I love it. It helps me realize that I am not in control of my mom's life and well-being, though it's not like I haven't tried! LOL

It sounds as though your dad is the more reasonable of your parents, and that he wants to care for mom.

Can you and his doctors put it to him that for HER sake, he needs to go to AL now so that there are folks around to care for mom if he has an emergency?

You need to make this about mom's needs and yours so that dad doesn't feel like he is wimping out.