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ChristineDDE Asked December 2019

How do you tell if an elder has reached the point where he shouldn't be making some decisions?

My Father recently bought himself a new bed. His old king was easily 20 years old, so he was due. but, he bought a twin sized bed with a 12 inch mattress and a 12 inch bedspring. It is too narrow and too high. he admits his error. So now I have to see if it can be returned or traded in for a full size. His problem is he cannot hear well at all, even with his aids, and will say yes, to questions he hasn't heard. Or he will just give you the answer he thinks you want to hear, but that is a different type of behavior, altogether. I am concerned he may be taken advantage of by unscrupulous sales persons. Are there laws in place as a deterrent to this? Is it time for a POA? Right now, it is just occasional behavior. How does one know when it is time to step in and make decisions for him? He is mostly competent and still drives. The DMV just renewed his license last month after he passed the tests.

JoAnn29 Dec 2019
I worked for a Mattress manufacturer. In my state, used mattress, no matter how long used, cannot be resold. You need to call the store he purchased it at and see what their return policy is. Since it is your Dads error, don't be surprised if they won't allow the exchange. Unless, there was a tryout period.

My suggestion is you go with him when he purchases another one. When I purchased my new bed, the saleswoman suggested a 5 in boxspring when she saw how tall I was. (5 ft) I purchased Mom the 5 in BS for her twin because she fell out of bed.

A salesperson is going to try to sell you the top of the line. They make a lot more commission. I worked for Sealy but most mattress makers have a model that is maybe a step below. If ur Dad is tall, full sizes do come in 80 inch lengths.

My husband is extremely deaf. I am his ears. He misses so much in a conversation I need to be there. If you can't be with Dad someone needs to be. My husband has been hard of hearing since around 4 or 5. He has a very hard time, after 67 yrs, telling people he cannot hear. I think it stems from his Moms denial. I witnessed many a time where she acted like he was a hearing person. She was sitting in the front seat of the car and DH was driving. She was giving directions facing the window. I could see he was straining to hear her. I leaned over and asked her to look at him and speak up because he couldn't hear her. She got bent out of shape. Its very hard for people to admit they can't hear. Its a weakness. Aids can only do so much. My DHs loss is damage caused by an accident.

Geaton777 Dec 2019
Christine, you profile says you're tired... no doubt! You have many others in your company. You may not realize how emotionally exhausting it is to be constantly thinking about (or second guessing) every single decision or action. Hopefully you will find lots of help on this forum.

- you are correct in thinking your dad is vulnerable to unknowing or unscrupulous salespeople (and phone/internet scammers!) To minimize this risk while keeping your dad's semi-independence and dignity you should consider having a joint savings account with no checkbook access (online access only to transfer funds when needed). Use this account for his automatic Bill Pay. Then keep a very limited amt of $ in the checking account to which he has access. If he uses a credit card make sure it has a low credit limit. This will prevent him from making outrageous purchases. Do not make yourself joint or co-signer to any cc or loans! Are salespeople accountable for taking advantage of him? Not really. It's not their responsibility to know the cognitive condition of their customers. How would they know? It's your responsibility to protect your dad. This being said, make sure all his important and sensitive info is locked down and protected from prying eyes (even from in-home visitors like cleaning services). Make sure you take photos of his license, Medicare cards, credit cards, investments, etc. Maybe purchase ID theft protection if in your budget. I think there are smart phones designed for kids that limit who can call them and who they can call.

- has your dad had an official test from his doctor as to his cognitive level? This is a must and can be done discretely by handing his doc a private note requesting this test. They did it for me. They do it all the time and are glad to accommodate. Also get your dad to sign you on as his medical representative (HIPAA form) while at the doc's office. BEFORE you have him tested, make sure he has all his legal paperwork in order. Then if he tests as having impairment anyone who tries to get him to change his PoA you can prove he wasn't competent to do so. But you need to get this diagnosis in his records and for your own knowledge.

- driving. What tests did he pass? On the road? Eye exam? Written? If he didn't take the road test you can anonymously email the DMV and report him as a hazardous driver. I did this. My uncle killed his own wife and dog because his family was reluctant to have his privilege ended. Ease him out of driving by having family, friends and trusted neighbors take him places. You will need to arrange this. I did this for my aunts and they enjoyed the company more than the loss of driving themselves. Not a fan of Uber/Lyft if he is impaired. Nor do they want to be responsible for those people either. Limiting his ability to get around on his own will limit his ability to create problems for you and himself.

This is enough to process for now. Keep checking back here because many others who have walked this journey ahead of you will have awesome advice. Blessings!

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GardenArtist Dec 2019
Christine, you're wise to be concerned, but it might also be that his hearing as opposed to other decline is compromising his ability to interact.   It's hard to make good decisions when you're not hearing everything, and many sales people are fast talkers, perhaps deliberately.

You're wise to be concerned about being taken advantage of.   I couldn't answer what laws exist other than general elder protection laws, varying by state, and that would require quite a search.

What you can do is contact the CA central government office and search for an elder law agency (Michigan has one), or other agencies that might provide assistance to elders.   I've gotten very good legal advice from the Elder Law of Michigan agency.

Your state or local county bar association may also have support for protection of elders from predators.   And, in Michigan, Senior Centers frequently have visiting attorneys who provide nominal information on applicable legal issues.

But I think for now the more reliable method is to arrange for you or a close friend or family relative to accompany your father on purchase and decision making outings, taking with you a tablet or something on which to write.   That also creates the benefit of a second opinion on purchases.

That's what I did for my father, and it worked well.     Then we stopped someplace for lunch, so that the day didn't end on his having had to rely on me for assistance.   (Good food always helps allay bad feelings, at least for us)!

BBS2019 Dec 2019
Usually mattress purchases have a "try out" period so see if that applies. Then the mattress can be returned and better match found.

As far as making decisions, his MD would have to certify, along with another MD who knows/has examined him, that he is no longer competent to make decisions. At that point, the Health Care Power of Attorney (POA) and general durable POA is activated and the successor named in the documents becomes the decider. If he does not have a Health Care POA and general durable POA, check online for legal documents valid in your state (sometimes the state or county dept of health or aging has documents you can print and complete.) You may need an attorney to prepare the general durable POA (relates to finances.) You need those documents in place. Do it now.

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