LauraLe Asked June 2020

What can I do legally about Mom needing care and refusing?

I am 60 Mom is 85. Both of my other siblings died last August. I left my job and asked my fiance to give me a couple months to get this taken care of so Mom will be okay. Its now June. I'm stuck. I mean really stuck. Mom refuses to allow anyone in the house. She is not able to get herself to the bathroom or make meals. If I leave she will be alone, if I stay I will continue to resent her and the fact that I no longer have my own stability at my age. She even refuses to take a bath. Before my brothers both died they told me she hasn't been in the bath for a shower for over a year. She hasn't left the house in 7 years. The last time she was outside was over 5 years ago. Mom lives in Illinois and my home and my family is in Wisconsin. So what can I do without hurting Mom's health or me ending up charged with something?

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Your mother needs to be in a nursing facility and you need to go home. She won't like it, but she no longer has a choice. You will have to accept her anger at you. Don't continue your current situation just to avoid that anger.

Helpful Answer (13)

You need to stop enabling her to be the boss of your life here. tell her she either hires someone or goes to a facility. Stop the madness and sadness.

Helpful Answer (9)

It isn't that simple dear. Even if her mother had dementia, which at this point isn't for certain, you can't force ANYone to do something they don't agree to, such as move or bring someone in, even with POA. Our mother has dementia and was refusing to consider any kind of move. Our EC attorney told us we couldn't force her to move. POA was in place several years before any dementia. Before considering a move, we started with aide visit, 1 hr/day, as a sanity check and med check. She was still able to get around BTW. The plan was to get her used to this and increase time and duties as needed. That lasted less than 2 months and she refused to let them in. They even sent their "expert" to talk with mom... That woman is lucky mom couldn't pick her up and throw her out! The next plan was the move, but we had to come up with a plausible fib to make it happen (YB did that), as we could not make her move. If this woman doesn't have any kind of dementia diagnosed, it would be even harder to make her move.

I agree this falls under enabling, however, how does one just walk away from someone who can't walk, can't propel themselves, doesn't go out (groceries anyone?) and just state c'est la vie? I think OP has some possible avenues to explore, such as SW, Aging council, geriatric manager, EC attorney, etc., but these will all take time and may be dead ends.

Somehow this doc isn't getting the whole picture. Even if she passes the cognitive testing, is he not aware of her inability to walk, toilet, get out for supplies, etc? Bad choices is one thing, inability to care for oneself is a whole different issue!

(0)

I work in home health and see this type of thing ALL THE TIME. So, what are you to do Bottom lines are this... YOU cannot keep doing this nor expected to. Your mom can't make rational decisions. AGAIN... She is NOT going to be reasonable. Not able to so... you have to make decisions. Many people out there with dementia and not diagnosed and can't get them to a doctor because they won't go. You can't make them go so what to do? SHE NEEDS TO BE IN A FACILITY... NURSING HOME. She is "too far gone" mentally for assisted living. I say facility because she will not cooperate with someone coming into her home and we cannot force someone to do what they do NOT want to do. I have worked for home health care agencies for 25+ years now. Again, you mom tells me she does not want a bath... she does NOT get a bath. In a facility, there are more than one person working with the patients unlike in the home which has ONLY one aide trying to get them to do something.... anything.. They fight us all the time... literally.. I have been hit.. ran into with wheel chairs.. motorized chairs and again.. there is ONLY one aide in there trying to do the care and it is impossible to take care of these patients like they really need to be taken care of.... they refuse the bathing, the brushing the teeth, changing clothes and diapers...Now.. in a nursing home... they give them a bath whether they like it or not. They have 2 people taking care of them much of the time. This is what is needed---Not one aide left alone with dementia people who are at the point of where your mom is. I refuse to go into a home like this any more. They should be in a facility. Not all dementia patients are like this but many are and they will not cooperate with us in their care. AND SHE WANTS TO STAY IN HER HOME. And these home health agencies advertisements say this all the time. Yeah... but she is NOT at the place mentally and physically where she can take care of herself in her home so... THAT is not possible any longer. As long as you cannot take care of yourself... then it has become impossible for you to stay in your home. You must live somewhere else where you get assistance and THAT is NOT at your home. AGAIN... when you can't do for yourself... when you can't bathe yourself... go to the bathroom by yourself... do the ADL's by yourself then you have reached that point that your REQUIRE help from outside sources. When that happens, you have to go into a facility. No choice. Children have a responsibility to help their parents BUT.. not be bullied by their parents and do EVERYTHING their parents require. I said "require"... not "want." There is a difference. GOD bless you. Do not allow her to make you feel guilty. This is HER Life. She is making those choices to NOT bathe, etc. And then you have to do the best you can with the choices SHE has made. I hope you get back to your family very very very very soon.

Helpful Answer (8)

First of all, you are giving mixed messages:

"...we cannot force someone to do what they do NOT want to do."

"When that happens, you have to go into a facility. No choice."

If her mother doesn't want aides or to move to a facility, would that not result in "forcing" her to do what she doesn't want to do?

I do agree with that first quote - we ran into this and were told explicitly by the EC atty that we could not force mom to move (she wouldn't let the aides in after a few weeks and refused to consider moving.) He suggested guardianship, but the facility we chose wouldn't accept committals - we had to punt and come up with a plausible fib (she does have dementia - not 100% certain about OP's mom, but in either case, you can't force this move.)

Although we have mom in AL/MC, not a NH, I would think the NH would have the same "rules" regarding force. Staff told me that they are NOT allowed to force ANY resident to do something they don't want to do. What they do instead is coax the person, sometimes getting compliance (meds would be most important, bathing *could* wait, medical treatment also would be important.)

(1)

Your mother needs more assistance than you can offer. Seven years is far too long for her to make any amendments now. Don't expect her to do so. You should be more concerned about your own health since it's obvious that she doesn't care about her own. You could call the elder case worker in her town.

Helpful Answer (7)

If your mother has a sound mind, and that’s a pretty low bar in legal terms, she’s free to make her own decisions, even the ones that don’t seem to make sense like not bathing. If she has dementia or significant enough mental illness that she’d be found incompetent then you can be made her guardian and be responsible for her care, or making decisions concerning it. Do you think she’s competent? If so, then please leave and let her figure it out. It’s not on you to get her to the bathroom or make her meals for the rest of her life just because she doesn’t want the help of others. Are there any legal documents in place that could be of help to you? I don’t see you being charged with anything in any case

Helpful Answer (6)

Leave her alone and go back to your family. You cant help someone who wont help themselves.

Helpful Answer (6)

You are in a real bind and from what you wrote it sounds like you think she is mentally sound. It is hard to understand how someone mentally sound can choose to live that way but I suppose it happens. If she is competent and won’t cooperate, I think you need to put yourself first and walk away. It is hard to imagine doing but you are not responsible for her and she has the right to make her own bad decisions. You said you have POA but are you financial or medical or both? Perhaps you can call your local Area Agency on Aging and get some advice. You might need a social worker to help you.

Please do take care of you. A loving, healthy, mentally sound mother wouldn’t expect her daughter to give up her own life indefinitely like you have. It isn’t right.

Helpful Answer (6)

Call your mother's local Area Agency on Aging and outline her situation to them. They will be able to point you in the right direction to find help for her, and advice as to your legal responsibilities (which are nil if she is of sound mind, though that seems to be a moot point).

What prevents your mother from getting to the bathroom and from preparing meals? - other than her unwillingness to do so, combined with your doing these things for her, I mean.

I'm very sorry to read of your family's losses. Do you mind my asking what happened to your brothers? And again, do you mind my asking what changed seven years ago that might have made your mother reluctant to leave her home?

Helpful Answer (5)

My MIL was similar. She fell and broke a hip, and that was what allowed us to finally get her into an assisted living situation. We took pictures and videos of the house, and the doctors agreed she could not go home and care for herself. It took my husband 6 weeks, full time, to sort thru the majority of the stuff, and then it took the pros another 2-4 weeks to finish sorting, have an estate sale, and put the house on the market.
One other thing we did, as we're in TX and she's in NJ, was to hire a geriatric case manager. She visited MIL a few times in the hospital and built a rapport. She also helped her 'make the decision on her own' that she couldn't go home again. She also helped her 'decide she didn't need to drive anymore' on her own. I say those tongue in cheek :-) She was very skilled, we got the decision we needed, and MIL retained the facade of control. Worth every penny.
Long answer, but occasionally you have to let nature run it's course, and live your life. It's hard to watch (we'd been asking her for 10 years to move), but....
Also, like someone else suggested, call the Agency on Aging. If she's not good at driving, report her to the DMV. You have to do what you need to do so you can sleep, but you also need to live your life. Good luck!

Helpful Answer (5)