Driving restrictions; am I liable if she has an accident?
My aunt's drivers licence was revoked by her doctor (Alzheimer's). She told me she continues to drive. If I am her agent, am I liable if she has an accident?
When I had to renew my auto insurance policy, I told agent it was just me driving. That my husband was not allowed to drive due to A/D. But I was worried if he took keys out of my purse, and drove the car, had an accident, and if I didn't know he did that? The agent advised me to keep him on the policy, so in case he did drive and have an accident or damage other's property, that the policy would cover it. Particularly, I was concerned as one evening while I was in the bathroom, I came out and he wasnt in the house. I looked all over the house/sun room, shed, and found him in the car on the driver's side, trying to put the house key in the ignition, as he couldn't find his car keys. I told him it wouldn't work, but he said he was just going try; I took that key and wore it on my neck. Went to take a shower, got out, hubbie not in the house. He found another house key, in junk drawer, and had that going into the ignition. At that point, I took all house keys, car keys, shed keys, etc,,. and put them in the safe and each time I needed car keys, I had to open the safe. He didn't catch on that and I had no trouble after that. Hard to deal with.
It's amazing how in spite of the dementia they get so fixated and hold onto one idea. My mom is not wandering, at least not beyond the attraction of seeing a neighbor outside to chat with, but one worries...and if you try to get her back in the house...she is literally a snail, and an uncooperative one at that. We took to using the deadbolt lock. The front and side doors are feet apart and if she tries one door and it doesn't work, she'll go to the other, back and forth, not distressed, but forgetting she just tried the other. I have found her in search of dad's set of keys though, and one time she found them and was trying to get into the locked laundry room. It's tedious to keep things locked, but gets to the point of being the only answer as we try to keep our loved ones at home. I used a child safety lock on a bin in the fridge, rather than locking the whole fridge, but we're getting closer to having to lock her out of the kitchen or put one on the whole fridge...
Dear Shants, From what I've read, a doctor can't revoke someone's license himself but rather they can contact the DMV and let them know your aunt is unfit to drive due to Alzheimer's. In some states both the courts and the DMV are needed to revoke a license. Since laws do vary from state to state, it would be wise to find out the specific rules of your state (assuming she lives in your state - otherwise, you'd have to research the state she lives in). If she were to drive YOUR car, then yes you could be liable otherwise no, you are not responsible for another adult other than morally. Also, you might want to consider the issue of insurance. Most states require someone to have a valid driver's license in order to obtain insurance. Just with what has been mentioned, It sounds way too risky - why take the chance? When I took my mom's car key's away (and I forgot to mention I am her P.O.A.), I used a locking steering wheel device (she drove fast, got lost, ran a red light and got a couple speeding tickets and then was diagnosed with Alzheimer's). This was extremely hard for me to do as she loved driving her whole life. She was very upset and mad at me as well as my husband no matter how many reasons I gave but, I couldn't bear the thought of living with the guilt and trauma if she were to get in an accident injuring or killing herself, others or both. If she injured or killed others, I wouldn't want her to live with it either. So that being said, I asked for the keys, put the device on and locked it because I was never sure if she gave me ALL her keys since she kept spares. Then I would go to her house and do the driving and put it back on before I left. Eventually, I placed her in an assisted living facility and sold the car. The facility had a transportation bus if she wanted or needed to go somewhere (within a certain radius). You can go to the website: www.dementiacarecentral.com for some other information on dementia and driving issues. But, mostly you should try to do more research online as to when the law and liability come into play. Good luck!
If you are her POA, find out her true driver status from dmv. Generally, dmv suspends, not the doctor. Most auto insurance will only cover licensed drivers. If she’s revoked, she may have no insurance if she wrecks. That’s a criminal offense to drive with no insurance and no license. All her assets, are then vulnerable and they won’t even pay for her attorneys. If she causes damages, injuries, or death, anyone who can be brought in as a liable party might be. I’d consult an attorney to see your duties and liabilities. There’s no upside for her to keep driving.
Insurance covers the car, not the driver. That's why you can let someone else use your car and still be covered in the event of an accident. That being said, if an unlicensed driver has an accident in an insured car, the insurance company CAN, in some instances, decide not to pay some/all of the damages. What they usually WILL do after an incident such as that is to cancel the policy on the car. I agree with CountryMouse. If it was the OP's car she was driving, then she would have financial responsibility should an accident occur. As POA, no, she is not financially responsible. If that were the case, no one would ever agree to ever take on POA responsibilities. To the OP: If you haven't already done so, have your aunt's doctor explain to her why she should not be driving. Or if there is someone else in the family to whom she defers authority, have them speak to her. (In some instances, for example, my mother will acquiesce to my husband rather than me, even though we are telling her the same thing). Or, as a last resort, maybe hiding the keys would work.
Your power of attorney (if that's what you mean) gives you the authority to act FOR your aunt. It in no sense gives you any authority OVER her. You do not by virtue of your POA have any more power to regulate her conduct than you do, say, her dress sense or her choice of meals.
What you might do as an informed, concerned and responsible citizen is a different question. If you know, because she has told you, that she is driving without a valid licence you can:
state forcefully to her that if she has no licence, she also has no insurance and she is driving illegally;
that being aware of the same you have no option but to bring it to the attention of the authorities, including law enforcement;
and that unless she gives you a credible undertaking that she will stop driving you will go right ahead and do that.
But first of all - research alternative transport and offer to set it up for her. She'll probably save money, all told, by the time you factor in running costs, fuel, insurance, parking, maintenance; and she should gain considerably in terms of convenience and peace of mind.
Where's she driving to? If she lives in a place where there is genuinely no alternative means of transport - no cab will go there, no bus within walking distance, no kindly neighbours or community minibuses or voluntary services - then perhaps this is also a good time to think seriously about her location and access to services in general.
And last question: what is she driving? If it has resale value, find out how much and get her to picture the cash. If it has sentimental value, is there a deserving young family member she might generously bestow it on?
I'm not an attorney, but I can relay this: Husb/wife reside together. Husb has dementia and refused to stop driving. Wife was advised that if he caused an accident and it can be proven that she knew about husb dementia, she could be sued for "allowing" him to drive. I think this is the question you're asking, but laws may vary and probably are not black and white. (Husb in this case does not drive anymore by the way. Wife could not accept chances of legal liability and could not live with someone else being harmed by spouse driving. )
When I personally was faced with this situation, it was an elderly lady who "refused" to stop driving. The thing was that she lacked the physical ability to even get TO the car - let alone get in it. It was a lot of grandstanding on elder's part and no real risk to her or to other drivers because it wasn't going to happen. However, had she truly had the ability to get to the car and drive it, I would have had to remove the car from her reach and park it elsewhere to avoid harm to her, other drivers, and any chance of legal liability to anyone. One more note: Hiding the keys frequently does not work as elder often has another set stashed somewhere.
I am an eldercare social worker in the community and have helped many families through this delicate situation. As people have already stated, legally you may or may not be held liable depending on where you live and your particular situation. It seems to me that this is more of an issue of moral responsibility. I could not, in good conscience, let my parent drive unsafe and be a hazard on the road to themselves and others simply because they insist on driving or because I don't want to deal with having a discussion about it with them. Hard decisions need to be made and tough discussions need to be had for their safety and for the safety of the public. In my area, a local hospital's physical and occupational therapy department has a driver's evaluation program that can be suggested and scheduled by a family member or "ordered" by the doctor. It takes into account a person's overall ability to drive, including their physical reaction time, cognitive ability, visual acuity, judgment, and safety awareness. It is performed in the person's own vehicle to get a true picture of their abilities. Your local Office on Aging or Dept. of Senior Services will have information if there is such a program in your area. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, it is not covered under any insurances. Another plan we have put in place occasionally (and this may not be the route for everyone but I have seen it work when all other avenues have been exhausted) is if an elder refuses to give up driving despite the doctor's recommendation, despite having had the discussion on how much money will be saved by not driving/selling the car and despite talking about the possibility of hurting another person, especially a child, then we have gone so far as to remove the spark plug (or other crucial car part) from the vehicle without telling them. If the elder then insists that it be fixed, the estimate is so high that it only make sense to get rid of the car. (Of course if you sell it, the money should be given back to that person). Then you need to make sure that alternate transportation arrangements have been made so that the elder is able to travel to where they need and want to go. Driving is such a bigger issue that it looks to be on the surface! Not only is the elder giving up their independence, they are also faced with the fact that they are aging and not who they used to be. It is very hard for previously independent people to rely on other people, essentially they feel they are making an announcement to the world that they are no longer able to care for themselves. This is an extremely hard conversation for family members to have with their aging loved one as well. There are care managers in your area that you can consult with and will help you through this situation. They can even act as the "bad guy" to preseve your relationship with your elderly loved one. There are also many, many articles on this subject and how to best handle it. It is definately not an easy situation. Good luck to those faced with it!
If her drivers license had been revoked and you are letting her have access to the car, if your not held liable, you should be! She had Alz! What if a child should run out in front of her and she killed said child? How would you feel then??either sell the car, telling her it's in the shop, take the keys or have a mechanic dismantle the car in such a way that it won't run. You are the one that is suppose to have it together. Get it together and most of all good luck! It won't be easy I'm sure.
I'd be careful taking legal advice from people who are not attorneys. Laws vary of course, but, if her insurance company refuses to engage on her behalf, because her license was revoked, then, that means she, you or whoever is sued, (anyone can sue anyone, there is no person who reviews the complaints prior to filing), will be responsible for their own defense. That means you pay your own lawyer and that's not cheap. So, even if it's determined that you aren't liable months down the road, you may have chalked up a big legal bill, that you likely won't be able to get reimbursement for.
As PoA, you are your aunt's agent. You could disable the auto by removing a key component. She will not be able to obtain auto insurance. My mother always said "A car is a weapon" and although she may have been a little heavy handed with that comment, she was spot on!
Not heavy handed. A ton of steel hurtling down the street at a high rate of speed being driven by someone who can't remember what she did yesterday? It's a scary weapon.
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From what I've read, a doctor can't revoke someone's license himself but rather they can contact the DMV and let them know your aunt is unfit to drive due to Alzheimer's. In some states both the courts and the DMV are needed to revoke a license.
Since laws do vary from state to state, it would be wise to find out the specific rules of your state (assuming she lives in your state - otherwise, you'd have to research the state she lives in).
If she were to drive YOUR car, then yes you could be liable otherwise no, you are not responsible for another adult other than morally.
Also, you might want to consider the issue of insurance. Most states require someone to have a valid driver's license in order to obtain insurance.
Just with what has been mentioned, It sounds way too risky - why take the chance?
When I took my mom's car key's away (and I forgot to mention I am her P.O.A.), I used a locking steering wheel device (she drove fast, got lost, ran a red light and got a couple speeding tickets and then was diagnosed with Alzheimer's). This was extremely hard for me to do as she loved driving her whole life. She was very upset and mad at me as well as my husband no matter how many reasons I gave but, I couldn't bear the thought of living with the guilt and trauma if she were to get in an accident injuring or killing herself, others or both. If she injured or killed others, I wouldn't want her to live with it either. So that being said, I asked for the keys, put the device on and locked it because I was never sure if she gave me ALL her keys since she kept spares. Then I would go to her house and do the driving and put it back on before I left. Eventually, I placed her in an assisted living facility and sold the car. The facility had a transportation bus if she wanted or needed to go somewhere (within a certain radius).
You can go to the website: www.dementiacarecentral.com for some other information on dementia and driving issues. But, mostly you should try to do more research online as to when the law and liability come into play. Good luck!
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That being said, if an unlicensed driver has an accident in an insured car, the insurance company CAN, in some instances, decide not to pay some/all of the damages. What they usually WILL do after an incident such as that is to cancel the policy on the car.
I agree with CountryMouse. If it was the OP's car she was driving, then she would have financial responsibility should an accident occur. As POA, no, she is not financially responsible. If that were the case, no one would ever agree to ever take on POA responsibilities.
To the OP: If you haven't already done so, have your aunt's doctor explain to her why she should not be driving. Or if there is someone else in the family to whom she defers authority, have them speak to her. (In some instances, for example, my mother will acquiesce to my husband rather than me, even though we are telling her the same thing).
Or, as a last resort, maybe hiding the keys would work.
Your power of attorney (if that's what you mean) gives you the authority to act FOR your aunt. It in no sense gives you any authority OVER her. You do not by virtue of your POA have any more power to regulate her conduct than you do, say, her dress sense or her choice of meals.
What you might do as an informed, concerned and responsible citizen is a different question. If you know, because she has told you, that she is driving without a valid licence you can:
state forcefully to her that if she has no licence, she also has no insurance and she is driving illegally;
that being aware of the same you have no option but to bring it to the attention of the authorities, including law enforcement;
and that unless she gives you a credible undertaking that she will stop driving you will go right ahead and do that.
But first of all - research alternative transport and offer to set it up for her. She'll probably save money, all told, by the time you factor in running costs, fuel, insurance, parking, maintenance; and she should gain considerably in terms of convenience and peace of mind.
Where's she driving to? If she lives in a place where there is genuinely no alternative means of transport - no cab will go there, no bus within walking distance, no kindly neighbours or community minibuses or voluntary services - then perhaps this is also a good time to think seriously about her location and access to services in general.
And last question: what is she driving? If it has resale value, find out how much and get her to picture the cash. If it has sentimental value, is there a deserving young family member she might generously bestow it on?
When I personally was faced with this situation, it was an elderly lady who "refused" to stop driving. The thing was that she lacked the physical ability to even get TO the car - let alone get in it. It was a lot of grandstanding on elder's part and no real risk to her or to other drivers because it wasn't going to happen. However, had she truly had the ability to get to the car and drive it, I would have had to remove the car from her reach and park it elsewhere to avoid harm to her, other drivers, and any chance of legal liability to anyone. One more note: Hiding the keys frequently does not work as elder often has another set stashed somewhere.