Scams my parents fell for - now what?

I've gone through this also. My mother fell for every "sweepstakes," for every "you've won a car," and every scammer who called - and they ALL called because I'm sure her name and address were on every single list scammers buy and sell amongst themselves. She had her bank account totally cleared out multiple times within a few months. I was always the one spending hours upon hours making calls and sending emails and looking stuff up, trying to get her money back. Thankfully in most cases I was able to but those times were because her bank had allowed unauthorized access to her account even though her account had been flagged and wasn't supposed to be accessible. Eventually the bank wanted to throw her out, close her account and I don't blame them. The issue took a huge toll on our relationship as I was always the one it all fell on to correct the situation and get her money back and to find a way to prevent her from doing more. Here's my solution to my problem:

1. We made my son her financial POA. It would've been me but by that time I'd become my mother's enemy in all of this because I wouldn't let her "win money."
2. ONLY my son has access to her bank account, not even she can access it on her own. He goes to her bank once a month to withdraw her Social Security check and get a money order for the rent, which is what her check is used for. There are no automatic withdrawals coming out of her account.
3. She can no longer have online access to her bank account and neither can anyone else.
4. I spent months and months trying to deal with the issue of phone calls from scammers. She'd actually formed "friendships" with these scammers and they'd talk to her for an hour or more, getting information and making her think they were friends. I tried blocking the numbers, then blocking the partial numbers because they simply change the last 4 digits of their phone numbers to get around any blocks. I tired answering the calls before she could. Nothing worked. I eventually ended up having the land line removed and now we only have my cell phone. This was the ONLY thing that finally stopped the calls.

My mother does not have a check book or a debit or credit card. She literally has a checking account in name only, my son is the one who accesses it. Now that her dementia has progressed she really isn't aware of this anyway, she thinks she goes to the grocery store and buys this or that.

I'd recommend taking the credit cards away. Yes they'll be angry and it'll be very difficult to do but you must choose between that and having your parents in so much financial hot water. I'd even look into parental locks on the internet to where maybe they cannot look up the sites they're looking up (I'm not sure but I think there are security programs where you can block certain types of sites like those get rich quick sites).

From going through this for so long with my mother I can tell you that trying to convince them, explaining to them, even proving to them that these are scams will not work. I tried that do many times, I even showed my mother the government website that talks about different types of scams and what not to fall for - it did not help at all.

I wish you luck - it really was a terrible experience for me, it seemed to last forever, I did not want to take the huge steps I ended up taking but once I did there was at least some very much welcomed peace.

SeniorStruggles:

The first quesion is why, per your profile page, are YOU the one responsible for 5 elders? One is hard enough, two, usually a married couple, is beyond difficult. Although some have medical issues, they still require help and take time. One person can't possibly do this alone!

As to your parents and the financial woes:
1) have either been determined to be incompetent? Dementia? Doctor confirmed?
2) if answer to #1 is no, your POA isn't likely activated - read it to see if there are criteria for when activation happens. Generally it's when the person becomes incompetent.
3) if the answer to #1 is yes, you could take action, but that might only impact one of the two

As many note in various threads on this forum, bad decisions are not enough to determine someone being incompetent. In those cases, we can mainly watch the horrific story unfold! You could try a consult with EC attys (many offer a free initial consult) to see if there's anything you can do legally, but if neither or only one has been deemed incompetent, your hands are going to be tied!

You can try talking and explaining, but it seems that you have tried this and it's had no effect. Even if you show them the proof, at least step mom goes back to the guarantees. Clearly they believe all the garbage promoted regarding money back, get rich quick, benefits of likely bogus pills. Most likely they are not going to listen to you. Even with legal backing, getting back money at this point isn't likely to happen, esp for anything in past months AND charges they themselves authorized. With legal assistance, there may be ways to mitigate, but it would require a lot of effort and will cost a bit.

Do they live alone or with you?
Do they own their own home?
Is that home, if they own, paid for?
If their own home, are their other bills currently paid up to date?
Is there anyone else in the family assisting you with these 5 elders?

To take credit cards/set limits, basically to do ANYTHING w/ their finances, you need to have legal standing, either a legitimate activated POA (with help from atty) or guardianship.

If they live with you, I'd cut off their access to the computers, asap! Your home, you CAN do that. If they live on their own, I don't recommend you mess w/ their systems, but perhaps disable the connection, temporarily until such time as you can get legal advice. If you can do this, keep them at bay, tell them you're working on getting it fixed.

One method of taking control of finances DOESN'T require an atty - file to be rep payee for their SS. If you can document all this, they *might* grant the request. Make appt at the local office, if possible. They'll mail notice to you AND them regarding this request once you file it, so the parents will have notice. They can fight it. I didn't have to bring my mother, POA makes no diff, and no proof was requested for incompetence (federal agencies don't honor POAs.) They asked questions but never looked at anything I brought with me. They filed the request and it was approved. A notice was sent to mom, but by that time she was in MC and the nurse didn't give it to her. I was using her SS funds to pay bills, but legally SS doesn't approve of this. In mom's case, I had to do it because we were selling her condo and I could not change her address w/out being rep payee. If they approve it, the 1st checks will be mailed to you AS rep payee for them. Keep records, they require reporting at year end. After 1st checks, you can set up a rep payee acct that only you can access and have the funds electronically deposited. Even w/out POA, you could ask their billers to change their BILLing address to yours, so that if you get approved you can pay their bills.

The only other option I can think of is to call social services, explain the situation and request any help or advice they can provide. Add'l note to be added as a comment to this comment:

Yes, you sure can put a new credit limit on their cards. If you're the POA, you will have to send their credit card companies your documentation so they will deal with you. From your post it sounds like you don't have full financial control over their assets and bank accounts if they're still spending on all the scams. Look over your POA document carefully. The credit card companies will issue new credit cards with a spending limit if you have their full authority.

When I was POA for my brother (at his request) I had to let the Credit Card Companies know his new address at Senior Living, and I had all bills sent to me, which I paid out of his Trust as his Trustee. The credit card company sent me a letter saying that I was help responsible to let them know of any change in mental capacity which would preclude my brother having responsibility for his credit spending. They made it clear that if I as POA and Trustee let these cards remain, I was responsible to pay his expenditures. I think a call to the credit card companies as POA (you would have to send the documents) would get the credit cards shut down. That doesn't mean, however, they cannot get new ones and doesn't mean they can't get access to accounts. And if they are not mentally challenged with some dementia I am uncertain you can do this.

I did take credit cards from someone once - for her own good. I'm not sure if she ever figured out I took them or if she thought she just could not find them and was embarrassed. I did find notes with scribbles and what looked like phone numbers where it appeared she was possibly trying to get replacements, but I was never sure and no replacements ever came. The major credit cards mostly closed for no activity, but we kept one of them to help with the lady's expenses. The smaller, catalog-based accounts were closed with one call to the company (multiple credit lines were owned by the same credit grantor) in which we explained that their customer perhaps had the ability to place an order but did not have the ability or finances to make payments. I explained that anything they let her order would likely not ever be paid for, so it was in their best interest not to extend further credit. In terms of the catalogs themselves, I had her taken off the mailing lists. Her mail comes to me now. I am amazed at the creepy stuff she gets that looks so legit at first glance. Stuff that's supposedly from Medicare, from "hearing specialists", and from financial people offering her a free lunch at a restaurant - just for listening to the sales pitch. Even when she was "well" she tended to believe the wrong people and couldn't understand why the pills she got in the mail gave her a bad reaction. I took some big steps here, but I would have been the ONE picking up the pieces had the situation been allowed to continue spinning out of control. I hope someone cares the same way for me someday - even if I don't like it at the time or I'm confused by it.

Immediately TAKE ACTION! They're living on poverty pay and gave away over half of their yearly income?! Scam artists target the vulnerable elder. These con people work 24/7 and are a financial institution's largest department! IF the charge of $560.99 was made on their financial institution credit card, contact the bank IMMEDIATELY! Also, if you can prove by affidavit signing that ANY OTHER CHARGES were not authorized by them because they knew no better, there is a slim chance that their bank will have to incur those (deemed) fraudulent charges; It may to be too late. "Gosh, they'll be angry" is the least of your concerns.
The credit card that was used for these transactions should be rendered closed for any FURTHER USE.

First of all, if they are seeing these scams on the internet, stop the internet coverage and blame it on computer failures in the entire area where you live. And if they get this in the mail, you grab and destroy the mail first. Second of all, get a Power of Attorney at once so you can control the finances, etc. Also seek help from the Area on Aging how to handle this. Seniors get fleeced over and over again because they are so stupid. If they get $900 a month, what are they doing having credit cards? Who pays the bills. Please speak with an eldercare attorney immediately. Sometimes, with very stupid seniors, there is nothing you can do but tell them, they are making the beds they lie in and therefore you are walking away and will never help them again - sometimes that works.

Not sure how you can get the money back, but definitely TAKE AWAY their credit cards.........you don't have to tell them.........let them think that they are lost.  I know its sneaky but not really any other way around it unless you remove their phone/cell phone from their residence.  My dad would buy stuff (herbal pills.....buy 6 get 6)....but he would write out a check and mail the order form in (they had no credit cards)........I remember one day finding over 20 some bottles of "stuff" that he was never going to take.  I told him.....no more.........stop buying them.  I told my mother when the mail came with those stupid books to throw them in garbage can.  Hope you can contact a professional to find out how to handle the scam stuff.  wishing you luck.

If these charges are on the credit cards call and stop the payment on them if you are able.
Are your parents suffering from Dementia?
If not you cannot use a POA to stop them because they still have a right, without a diagnosis to spend their money as they like.
My advice is to see an elder care attorney at once and pray it is someone with some good advice as to what you can and cannot do.
I doubt you will get back the money if no stop payment can be accomplished. You will likely not get it back from any company. You may need to seek guardianship over their money. I hate to tell you this, but there are elders who have lost literally 100s of thousands of dollars. There are scamsters that actually have them picked up by limo to go and get gamecards and such at stores. Please do all you can and do it fast. Canceling the cards won't deny them access to accounts. The scammers will mark them and share them and the money can go fast. I am so sorry. Please seek the help you can right away. You are going to have to act in their best interest if you are ABLE. If you are unable the POA itself cannot protect them. If you are able to get money moved from their account to CD without early withdrawal that may help protect some money. I hope others have information for you. But I would say see a lawyer.

My dad fell for a phone scam last year. The caller told him he had won the mega-millions lottery. They called every day telling him that they just needed him to send several hundred dollars for taxes and shipping. We're not sure how much he lost, but luckily, the postal inspector was watching the scammers and he got one of his envelopes back. He wouldn't listen to any of his kids, but he did finally listen to the postal inspector. He has now been diagnosed with Parkinson's so we think this may have happened in the early stages of the disease.

1) if you are paying for cable t.v., you may able to program what channels are available to your parents. Call customer service or recruit a teenager. If that is not an option, switch services to one that you can program what channels are available. Remove those channels that sell miracle stuff late at night.
2) if you think that they are getting scam phone calls, there are cell phones that are marketed to parents of young children. There is a half dozen numbers that the phone can call out to or receive numbers from.
3) There are 3 credit reporting agencies. Write a letter to all 3 and include a copy of the power of attorney to not extend credit to your parents. State that you are making this request to protect them from exploitation of vulnerable adults.
4) Try contacting the credit card company to reduce the credit limit to just above the current balance, before taking away their credit cards.

You risk your parents withdrawing the power of attorney. So, walk the line of taking reasonable steps, yet preserving their dignity and agency.

I had this problem with mother back a couple of years. She'd buy something, return it and refuse to pay the return fees and then the charges would start racking up. A pair of $20 shoes ended up with well over $150 in late fees and refund charges b/c all she saw was 'money back guarantee'--couldn't see the tiny print that said there would be a 'fee' for said return. (I can barely see that tiny print myself).

I went up to fix ONE problem and found she was doing this with a lot of things. Yes, she was embarrassed as she cannot use her cell phone and she was just in tears over these CC charges she felt she shouldn't have to pay.

Took HOURS to get ONE charge reduced to about $60--3xs what the item cost. I also cancelled the catalog, at her request. Next month she is begging me to reopen the catalog for her as she 'loved the cute stuff in it'. I refused, so maybe one of the other sibs did it for her.

She is 100% in lock down, has been since March. She goes to the grocery store and sits in the car with the A/C on and wears a mask. YB does her shopping in about 20 minutes. She goes absolutely no where else. Yet, everyday she gets something in the mail.

Now she's ordering and hoarding puzzles. She'll do one once, then rebox it and have it to go to the Sr Center. Problem is, the Sr Center is closed and will be for months, I'm sure. It may not open even next year. So--in her tiny apartment are about 100 boxes of puzzles. I've offered to take them to the Center where they will sit, unopened for ages--at least get the out of the way, but she wants the 'recognition' of being the one who gifted all these puzzles (and an equal number of books) to the Center.

On top of this she gets clothes every week, also. As long as she doesn't overspend, we're OK with that. And yes, it does relieve her boredom. I wish she could use her phone to call a friend, but she can't. I also wish she could use the internet...just reading about new things is a boredom buster--but she can't even log in to her computer.

Luckily for us, she is pretty tight with a dollar. She just loves to buy garbage is all.

I agree with all who have said to get them prepaid debit cards. My own mother has “misunderstood “ some of the purchases she’s made from those TV ads too. She didn’t see on an invoice one time that by buying whatever fly by night thing it was to save her teeth or whatever, it signed her up for, Jewelry of the Month,” charged to her credit card every month for $30.00. She called her credit card to report it but they told her that not understanding the terms of sale ( when it’s in fine print) doesn’t constitute fraud. Hearing that from the CC company was way more effective than me telling her. She has lost a lot of money on rip off remedies so I told her to ask me about it before she buys.

It took me a while to realize that money spending was curing her boredom, but when I found boxes and boxes of brand new unopened things I hit the roof. She was hiding her rip offs from me because she was embarrassed. “You can survive embarrassment,” I told her, “but being broke not so much.” Several trips to the post office later I think she got a third of her spendings back.

As POA you can cancel their card and make arrangements for reduced amount owed if necessary. Also redirect their mail to you (we had to do this for Mom) which you can do online. My Mom fell for these scams/identity theft to the tune of $30,000 before we knew anything. Fortunately the bank reimbursed her after MUCH investigation on my part. Good luck!!

Time for serious conversations. Show them the amount they have spent and their income. Show how there is almost no returns or money back. Get them to agree to give up credit cards entirely and only use cash to purchase items - a set amount kept in the wallet each week. Or, they might agree to a prepaid debit card (fees on those are horrendous) which you load with a set amount each week.

Unfortunately, you may need to be the one to follow up on the scams. Contact each company and demand repayment. Work with your parents' bank and Better Business Bureau on this. You may have to file police reports so the crooks get caught - and stop victimizing other vulnerable seniors.

I had to take away my mothers debit card and I manage all her finances. I have POA. She had credit cards, but because of her spending patterns and inability to pay or remember to pay her bills, the CC companies cut her off long before I stepped in. Prior to my mothers rapid decline, I was considering what to do to allow her some financial freedom. Like a prepaid debit card or putting limits on the credit card spending, which was possible through her bank. But that was not realistic. My mother has spent a ton of money on the tv shopping networks all her life And hid her purchases. She wanted to continue that trend once placed in an AL. She has gotten to the point In her dementia where she really cannot manage a phone or computer. I took the computer away. She has a basic phone and on a good day can manage the finding the contacts and calling. She will call me sometimes with a request for me to buy her the latest gadget or beauty cream she sees on tv and she usually forgets she asked for it. Prior to my stepping in, she made many serious financial mistakes that will impact her future care.

I called the bank and had them reissue me a new debit card and I was able to change the PIN. Even though I had removed the original card from her wallet. I never use it for anything. I thought I might need it to take out cash for her to spend once in awhile but that is not the case.

It sounds like you are helping them with their finances somehow already. You need to have a serious conversation with them. Their CCs will be canceled if they are not able to pay and their finances are already in jeopardy if they are spending more than they make. Don’t worry about hurting their feelings. It is not an easy. Good luck!

My sister was having financial and management skill problems way before we saw the proof. Sis was not getting her bills paid on time, made mistakes on the sale of her house and agreed to crazy seller finance, did not ask anyone in the family to review the contract before she signed. Sis sent a lot of money to foreign country money scam, her accounts were hacked-she refused to contact bank fraud division and problem went on and on-I am not sure she got all her money back she was not able to track wrongful charges and credits. Brother became her financial POA, took over all bill paying. We discovered dozens of boxes of "miracle cure" items in her apartment-bottles un opened and some on continuous billing that she did not know or could get them to stop-yes some were a real big pain getting them blocked from accessing her account-took months and months-even the "good" charitable groups would not stop taking her money. Sis lost thousands over the years of her bad money decisions, people-even her friends took money and jewelry from her too. One time i visited she had more than $1,ooo cash in her wallet. Eventually, I had to take her credit card-she kept getting catalogs etc. but she did not really know her address or phone number anymore-she kept losing track of her purse-it was not safe for her to have. She had some cash to buy herself a candy bar from the gift shop in her facility but that was it. She suddenly had $10 more one day and did not Know where it came from or that maybe she had "agreed" to sell something in her apartment.

my parents are nearly as bad answering the phone and giving their credit card number over the phone to all kinds of "groups" saying they are something like a Vets group but they have no way of knowing. Mom even gave her card number who told her they could stop ROBO calls for a fee. Mom loved talking to some foreign lady who called her nearly every single day trying to get her to buy something or give the card number. my mother is oblivious to their account balances-goes overboard with purchases that she makes online with assistance from others. all this is madness. I am not their POA and history has proven they will do what they want no matter what.

You could say the credit company is sending a new card-like they do from time to time-get your name on it too so that you can monitor purchases if you do give the card back. I personally wouldn't it took a long time to untangle my sister's money mess.

I wish I had a good answer for you. You are not alone. I have intense conversations with my Father-In-Law at least once a month, sometimes more often, about scams. He will sit for HOURS crossing out his name and address on anything in the house, and even go so far as to cross out UPC codes on garden variety Tylenol bottles that have no way to be traced to him. But the instant he thinks he *might* get some free money or something that will miraculously make him young and healthy again, look out.
Unfortunately, all you can really do try to keep an eye on things and talk to them. My FIL is still "competent" (That part is somewhat debateable to us, but his doctor doesn't seem to think he is anything but stubborn and self centered and just doesn't want to do what he should) So we don't have any control of his finances or his decisions. I do sit down with him or call him any time my sister in law ( lives with him) discovers another call he's in the middle of where they need his personal information. Thankfully we've been very lucky up to this point and she or her husband have interrupted him in the process - because he can't hear and he can barely type on a phone or see what he is doing, he often has to ask for help. As soon as one of them gets on the phone, the caller usually hangs up.
We've talked over and over about how there are no magic pills, no free money just especially for him ( at first he was of the belief that other people were being scammed but at HE was important enough for it to actually be real...sigh)
We've gone through how diligent he is about garbage diving scammers and explained to him that he is much more likely to get scammed on the phone or internet than someone going though his garbage for his name and address. We've explained to him that just about anyone willing to spend less than a dollar can get all of that information without leaving their home. We begged him to stop answering his phone if he doesn't know who it is. We THOUGHT we had finally gotten through to him only to learn that his newest obsession is answering and telling them they are scammers and having long conversations with them. Sigh...I explained....again, that some scammers just need to record his voice saying certain words and they have what they need to do other things. He thinks he is one-upping them.

So my final approach - because he is a serious narcissist and his major issue is thinking he is better and smarter than anyone and that no one can get the best of him - has been to tell him this. "We have talked about all of the ways that scammers can get you, and yet you still continue to answer the phone and engage with them, sometimes to tell them you know they are scammers, and other times to try get whatever it is they are promising you. You have been exceptionallly lucky that you haven't truly been scammed yet, but you have to understand that when you are, and frankly it is when because you refuse to practice safe behavior, you have to understand this...we can't fix it for you. We have been able to help you with issues you've had in the past with reputable companies that you misunderstood, but we cannot negotiate with invisible scammers who take everything. And when that happens, and we can't get your money back, you are going to feel really silly that you didn't listen to us"
I don't know how much good it does. He still answers the phone, he still does stuff that makes my hair stand on end. But at the end of the day, he's still compentent and gets to make really bad choices if he wants to. We can only advise him ( and he is ALWAYS going to know better than we do) and hope for the best.
Unfortunately scammers tend to prey on the elderly and if they engage, their number or email address is sold to hundreds of others just waiting in line to strike.

Show them proof of what they have spent and what they have got for it.
Show them proof that the money back guarantees are false.
In short, show them the numbers.

Find your father more conspiracy theories to enjoy, the sillier the better - as long as there are no payment portals on there.

Quick fix - try to ensure that their credit cards are kept well away from the computer. You could, for example, get them a lockable petty cash box to be kept in a kitchen cupboard for that purpose. Explain that this way thieves and pickpockets will be foiled. This will slow down impulse buys and subscriptions, at least.

Could you talk your parents into getting a Debit Card to replace the Credit Cards? Tell them it’s much safer. We use a debit card with a limit of $500 for non-standard online payments (eg Ebay). If it gets hacked in any way, $500 is the most they can get. It genuinely is much safer. You could then agree an annual budget with your parents, so much a month if required to top up the debit card. Of course if any money comes back under the ‘guarantees’, it will automatically top up the debit card.

If your parents don’t understand how much they are wasting, they ought to be OK about a monthly/ annual budget and a top up limit, as they don’t think it will be necessary to top it up. Then destroy the credit cards -or keep them yourself if they have normal bill debits which would be a trial to alter (and check for those repeating magazine subscriptions etc). Your parents' anger will come later, when the limit kicks in, and by then the problem ought to be easier to explain. Worth a try?

Scams are prevalent more so now. At the bottom of the U.S.Postal Service government website was a link.....taking you to an official looking site where you must pay $59.00 to get your address changed! The money was refunded and the address was corrected, as nothing had been done!

(I did not fall for that one).

You can’t take control over their finances without their consent unless they’ve been declared incompetent. Your POA isn’t something that gives you authority over them.

Many of these miracle cures are subscriptions that are sent and billed monthly. Have you seen that when looking at their bills? You can request the credit limit be lowered. Keep a small amount in their account and open another one to pay bills.