Can the hospital do this? Isn't it illegal?

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rizo77 Asked March 2021

Can the hospital do this? Isn't it illegal?

I am taking care of my mother. I did have guardian/conservator for her since 2008. Something recently that an old attorney did screwed something up with the case in December 2020. I was never informed by attorney or court that this had happened. I’m currently getting that mistake fixed by another attorney. Now once that is fixed and I’m guardian again, the hospital is saying she needs 24 hour care which she does not. She can use the bathroom by herself, get drinks as needed. I take care of food and showers. They are trying to force me into a situation of giving them names of who will be helping me take care of her. Isn’t that illegal what they are doing? They don’t need that kind of information. I said I will take care of what she needs and do what we need to do. They don’t have to have specifics, to me that’s completely overstepping. I need some guidance as to what to do. They won’t release her to me and act like they won’t even release her even when I get the guardianship paperwork that was screwed up fixed. How can this happen? I’m her only living relative and have always taken care of her. It’s not like she’s neglected. It’s like the case manager at the hospital has a vendetta on me. She pushed my dad into a skilled nursing facility for extra therapy which he had completed and will be in the home with us. If she needs help he’s her voice and can get an ambulance or get ahold of me at work if necessary if it is needed. The case manager says that he can’t do that because he was previously in that hospital also. The same case manager sent him to a facility she knew nothing about. I’ve already had to file complaints with the state for actions that have happened to my father at the skilled nursing facility she shipped him off too. Now she’s trying to take away my mother from the only family she has.

Elder Law Family Caregiver Hospital Discharge

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score 1 · Answer 1

The only thing I'd add here is that your mother (and father) before their respective hospital trips will not be the same right after they get home and likely won't be for a few months at best. You can't expect to go back to life as it was before they went in, nor can you expect Dad to bounce back well enough to reassume his role as being your mom's voice. Who will be his voice if he needs help?

I think the hospital is simply trying to do what's best for their patient, and the two of you disagree as to what that is. I understand your anger and frustration, but displaying outward hostility to the hospital staff won't score you any points with them. They need to believe your very vulnerable mom will be safe and cared for. You angrily telling them you're the one for the job may not be too convincing.

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score 1 · Answer 2

I think JoAnn and Alva have it right. Safe discharge issue. Keep in mind that the hospital has to obey the law about safe discharge. In a way it is about their decision on mom's safety, not yours even if you are guardian. Keep in mind also that there is the issue of legal liability for them. So if you want to get mom home, play along, cooperate and once she is home, then think about safety issues for yourself. So often it is wise just to go along and not butt heads on your rights as guardian. Often it is a waste of time and energy to argue about this stuff. Just do what you have to do and then stay clear of the hospital people. Avoid getting into pi**ing contests.

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score 1 · Answer 3

Rizo,

I read your response to Alva. I still stick by what I said, ur guardianship doesn't have anything to do with this. It probably has to do with "safe discharge". Believe me I am not big on Hospital Social Workers. To me they don't look outside the box. Like I said, just do what you need to do to get Mom home. Hope that is not the only Hospital in the area. It would be the last place I took Mom and Dad again.

Good Luck and come back and tell us how things worked out. We learn from others experiences.

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score 0 · Answer 4

I think I can see your side Rizo. Mother is alone for a shortish time & usually fine. You want to go back to this normal.

Trying to see from the Hospital's side. Mother has had a recent seizure. It seems they have doubts that Dad can be her carer. Maybe he could phone you or EMS, but they feel she needs more supervision - someone being actively attentive?

There are countless stories of people not obtaining medical attention for a fall. Including head strikes - two I can think of involving panic. 1st: partner watched a fall with head strike & bleeding but did nothing - luckily was OK. 2nd: fall in bathroom, head strike, possible neck damage. Partner dragged person from room to room & when revived enough to get in car took to hospital (so delayed). Man suffered internal bleeding & severe consequences - not sure of recovery.

Would hiring an aide for a week or so smooth things?

After that, you can assess the need for supervision with her medical team.

It's about Mother's safety isn't it?

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score 1 · Answer 5

My guardianship wasn’t revoked thanks very much. Mix up in paperwork was all it was. And it was the fault of the hospital for trying to use outdated information. They didn’t even have the right case number. They were trying to bully me with false information. Which was quickly cleared up by my attorney and judge. So again my rights were never revoked. Just a slimy hospital using out dated information and trying to get away with it. The case file they were trying to use was dismissed because they combined guardianship and conservator ship in one case file instead of two. The paper that I gave them was indeed the correct paperwork and proven by the judge that it indeed was and is still in place and will continue to stay that way.

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It looks as though you were able to clear this up very quickly. You must be very relieved. Glad it is all settled and wish you good luck going forward.

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score 1 · Answer 6

The Hospital is responsible, indeed held responsible by the LAW, to be certain an incompetent patient is discharged into adequate care.
THEY have the power to intervene and to open a case with Adult Protective Services if they feel a Senior is getting inadequate care. You say she is getting that care, but they may feel she needs 24/7 care to be safe, and they have a right to see that she does have it prior to dischage. Social Workers should soon be contacting you about your home, its safety and etc. You are her guardian. That means, just were she a child, you are entirely responsible for her safety. She is deemed helpless and in need of 24/7 care. If they feel you will no cooperate, or that you are not capable of understanding the law, and understanding your duty of care, they may go to court and have your guardianship removed.
This "something happened with a lawyer" thing, also, makes no sense. WHAT happened with a Lawyer?
Do know that guardianship can indeed be removed from you if you are not supplying what the state deems to be minimally required care. With or without the help of your attorney.
I would take a non-adversarial and cooperative attitude if you wish to have even the slightest hope of prevailing and keeping care of your Mom.

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The judge said my guardianship was still in place and what I was doing was perfectly fine. Thank you. My attorney also agreed. They were in the wrong trying to use false information and trying to make it apply. They were using an old temporary order that was replaced by the new order that I had that is permanent. That is how awful this hospital is. And I don’t appreciate you insinuating that I do not take care of my mother or give her a safe place. You know nothing. I have done everything for my mother and will fight till the day I die for that woman. I do know what my rights as a guardian are and have followed them since the day I’ve had them. My mother can no longer speak from a head injury. And I will be dammed if some social worker who had a god complex try to send my mother to a facility where she will not be taken care of. These facilities are no better at taking care of a person. I know my mother her needs, her likes and I know what’s best for her. I will not allow some bully social worker/case manager try to dictate what is best for my mother who knows nothing about her history or care. You do realize that I HAVE EVERY RIGHT to advocate for those that cannot do that for them. They have no evidence or a leg to stand on in court thank you very much. They also backed down when I got a lawyer involved and knows that a judge is aware of what they are trying to pull. I will also be getting her other doctors involved also showing what I do for that woman. Also have many character witnesses on my behalf also that are very credible. And you and I both know you do not get 24 hour care at these facilities. There is not a person sitting with them 24 hours a day. Or have to sit and wait for over a half hour to go to the bathroom because they are busy. Or not correctly getting meds, which I’ve seen my fair share of with these places. I’m not dumb when it comes to these places

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score 2 · Answer 7

I don't think your guardianship has anything to do with this. When hospitals discharge someone, they need to discharge to a "safe place". Seems she feels Dad is not competent enough to look out for Mom alone. Why does she feel this way? What was Dad in the hospital for?

This is what I would do, ask her what you need to do to get Mom home. Then do it. If she feels that someone other than Dad needs to be with Mom, then line someone up. Another family member maybe. Hire an outside aide. Do what she wants u to do. Once Mom is home...then do what you want. They do not police you once you are home. They may call to see how things are going, make sure they have ur cell not your landline. You don't want her asking Dad questions. They do have the right to call APS if they feel Mom is not being cared for properly.

Just for future reference. Rehab is a choice. I know, the Hospital discharge clerk says "We are sending Mom to rehab at ______." or "We are sending Mom to rehab. _________ and _________ have beds available. Which one do u want." You can refuse rehab. You can ask that therapy be done in the home. Especially if therapy is just to get their strength back. My GF refused it after a leg amputation and my Dad refused it. He did his rehab at home.

The last time my Mom had rehab, I told them it had to be done in the 20days that Medicare paid 100% because Mom had no money to pay her share after that time. She was released in 18days. She was only there to get her strength back.

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score 1 · Answer 8

Your profile says your mother cannot speak. Does she have a mental disorder? Why is she is in the hospital? Are they working on a discharge plan that may include rehab? The doctor who is discharging her may want to ensure she gets proper care as she recovers. I have heard of other family members being required to show that proper care would be provided before discharging their family members. To me, it’s for the benefit of the patient. You might consult with the attorney who is assisting you with the guardianship matter. If you are trying to regain that, I’d think that full cooperation with medical advice for the ward would be a big consideration.

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She cannot speak due to head injury. I’ve taken care of her since 2008. She went to the hospital a few weeks ago from a seizure due to an infection that no one knew about. She showed no signs or symptoms of anything. No matter what you ask her she will say she is ok. I can ask if she had headaches, if her stomach hurts and those kinds of things. And typically if she doesn’t feel good she shows me where things aren’t feeling right. She did none of those. I’ve been trying to get her into a neurologist because I know something is going on but have not been able to get her in. Her primary doctor got us an appointment with one that was 6 months out and I’ve trying to see if they had cancellations and they have not. Her appointment is March 31. She was sent to rehab after a week at he hospital. It’s the rehab that is causing all the problems. This case manager had it out for me and accusing me of things that aren’t true. They questioned my mom without me present and she can’t answer but yes and no mostly but even then she gets confused as to what the question is. Who’s to say that she wasn’t coerced into an answer they wanted. I do not trust this facility at all. She had proper care and there will be someone in the house 24 hours a day. My dad will be here and if something were to happen he knows what to do and call an ambulance or me in any situation. Not that an ambulance needs to be called. Not only that I have a camera in her room to monitor her. It had sound and I can speak to her through it. My mom is strong but has been having some balance issues hence trying to get her to the neurologist. Also this case manager previously sent my father to some skilled nursing to get a little stronger which he did and will be in the house 24 hours. He never goes anywhere by his choice. And the case manager sent him to the first place that accepted him without looking into the place. We’ve had to turn that place into the state and file complaints because they were withholding medication from him, gave him cold food and wasn’t treating him right. There were nurses who actually got in his face and chewed him out. Yet I’m supposed to let this case manager dictate where my mother goes? I don’t think so. I’m her only family that is living. Her and my father have been divorced for 40 years but that just our family dynamic. We all live together.

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score 1 · Answer 9

Would your Mother be alone in the day? If so, would she be able to use a phone or a call alarm button to call for help in an emergency?

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No my dad will be in the house and can get help for her if needed. I work 6am to 2:30 pm. My mom stays in bed typically till 9’or 10 in the morning anyways. So that’s only a few hours she’s up before I even get home. She rarely had needed help since I’ve been taking care of her since 2008. I have a camera to monitor her in her room which I can access from my phone in real time from anywhere. She sits in her room and watches tv most of the day or uses her computer to look at Pinterest. She Only to get up to use the restroom. We have dogs but they are kept away from her so they don’t get in the way. On occasion one of the dogs will spend time with her in her room and sleep next to her at night. She has drinks available to her as she wants them. I make her meals for her as of recently. She never goes without anything.

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