Mother daughter dynamics; I don't know how to fix this?

Trinikrystle, you say “Last time I left for a while I was okay..I was all in love lol after a while I missed her and knew she was missing me”. However it could very well be related to you finding that your “ex was a con man”. If that ‘love’ ended, it could have a lot to do with why you needed to go back to your mother’s love. If anything, it would have made you more ‘enmeshed’ with her. The last post about looking into Enmeshment might be a very good step to take.

Your mother’s story explains why she would hold tight onto you, and also why you would have great respect for how tough she was to work so hard as a widow. When you feel ready to do it, getting closer to your four siblings could be a step that you could take. They must have issues themselves about ‘losing’ their mother as children. They might also be able to understand how tightly close to your mother you are yourself, and provide you with a bit of support. So might the family members who brought up your siblings. You have a big ‘cordial’ family. They all know your story and can relate to you. Stop telling yourself that “this job really comes down to me”.

I am a grown adult man 56 and my mother is about to turn 88. This situation does not get any better. I never had kids and was never handed a manual on how to care for my mother. Everything your mom is experiencing right now is fairly typical of the dynamic between parents and their grown children regardless of gender and past relationship dynamics. My mom does not have dementia or Alzhiemers. So there is no underlying cause for her behavior toward me. You CAN NOT fix this. You can not change your mother or control her. You can only change how you respond. I encourage you to look at something called Enmeshment and how it relates to grown children and their parents. Since you are in counseling discuss this with them and see if they agree. You can work on communication and strategies to deal with your mother more effectively. Good luck you will need it.

I just started reading a book called Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life, by Martin E.P. Seligman, Ph.D.

I'm not one to read self-help books, and I'm reading this more for my son's benefit, but I have to say that Seligman writes a convincing argument that pessimism is the source of many people's depression and anxiety, and optimistic behavior can definitely be learned. The book is very readable (in spite of the microscopic font on my edition) and I'm finding myself attacking it with a highlighter, because so much of it is spot on with my son.

It isn't a new book, but you might see if your library has is. It might give you some insight on how to handle your mom and perhaps help her change some of her behavior.

Trinikrystle, thanks for coming back. It’s a site where people do care, and also care about whether what they say is any use at all!

You have a very difficult decision to make, and both outcomes aren’t very good for you. You say that “Since she lets her anger get the better of her, I act like a gatekeeper between her and people.” You’ve given a lot of your life to doing this. Mother has never had to grow up herself, and deal with the consequences of her own behavior. Perhaps she was a very spoiled child herself, and this has been going on for the whole of her life? Even if not, at age 69 the chances are that she will find it hard to change – in fact won’t change. It’s dominated your own life, and can continue for the next 20 to 30 years. That’s one very bad outcome for you.

Why did she not ‘raise’ your three siblings? Why did her marriage break up? Have you heard your father’s side of it? You write about your ‘cultural expectations’, but I can’t think of any culture where this is part of the expected pattern. ‘Cultural expectations’ don’t pick and choose which bits to follow. I suspect that you have been conned! Did it affect your own marriage? Would you want to expose your own child to this? No, reading again, you say it’s made you decide not to have children – and is that really what you always wanted?

The other bad outcome is that you finally cut the umbilical cord, and let her deal with her own life. It will almost certainly go wrong, and you will almost certainly feel guilty. You’ve never let yourself watch the consequences of her behavior, because you’ve protected her from them. The only way to cut the cord is probably to move a long way away. Of course Covid has made even the idea of moving so much more difficult for almost two years, but don’t use it as an excuse to stay stuck in this situation.

I hope that your counseling is helping. If it isn’t, find another counselor – not all of them are much good (bitter experience here). I hope that you can find some anger, as well as some peace.

Love with whichever outcome you choose. Yours, Margaret

Aside from a few extra aches and pains (and some weird person looking back at you in the mirror each morning), we never actually feel different about ourselves as we age (sadness, pain, etc. are all just 'overlays' we carry around with us every day).
You are now the age your mother was when you were born and the person you cared for in your teens is not the same physically or mentally as she was. Perhaps you are placing too much emphasis on past memories. I know I live in two worlds in caring for my father and often struggle to accept the present situation with all its absurdities. When I do, I seem to manage better as I can overlook the comparisons and expectations - when I can't, I am a helpless child again wondering where my dad has gone.
You have devoted a significant number of years to caring for your mother. Do you think it's time to live the life you desire? Your views may change significantly from a distance and that may even improve your relationship and allow you to reflect fondly and with some latitude in years to come.

Hi Trinikrystle,

Do you think those symptoms are all caused by altzeimer's or have you always had to deal with them? I think I am in a similar boat, but I have let it go on 8 years longer that you have. Its easy for people to say walk away, stop it now, get them help, but when you have been brought up by and conditioned by someone like that, you are effectively taught that's what bad poeple do and good people will put their mum above everything else... or else. Is that your experience too?

Trini, it’s extremely difficult to make a change when everything except you stays the same. Whether or not you ‘love her to bits’, you can’t resolve all this stuff when nothing around you changes. You are stuck in glue.

Your mother is 69, and you haven’t said anything to suggest that she can’t look after herself. I’m nearly 74 now, and I will be looking after myself when my husband has to go 2000kms away in a month, to stay for an indefinite period that will almost certainly be over a month. It might do your mother a lot of good to be left on her own – and if there are any serious health issues, perhaps you can organise them in advance. It will certainly do you a lot of good to have some time on your own, focusing on YOU.

Your mother is taking up too much space in your life, and has been since you were seven years old. For her sake and yours, you need to make a split, and then come back to work out your relationship when you each have the experience of coping on your own. Try to see how you can manage this.

"I don't know how to fix this".

I can understand why you are tired. Must be exhausting trying to fix all these things all the time.

I read the list you wrote & I started mentally sorting into columns of Your's or Mother's to own.

I can't say I found ANY on that list to put in your column.. Do you get what I mean? That Mother's personality, outlook & behaviour is up to her.

IMHO it's ok to gently suggest to her from time that counselling is helpful for many & could be helpful for her. Also ok for you to limit time listening to negativity. Ok to spend more time doing things you love: Job? Pets? Hobbies? Friends? Dating?

Just so tired guys. I just want a change/break in the pattern. I feel like I've done all I can do.

Just tired

Its been a year since you wrote before and things weren't going well then. You said then Mom was in the early stages of Alzheimer's. How has she progressed in that year? With Dementia there is no reasoning. They become self-centered and have no empathy for you and what you do for them. They can't appreciate what you do for them. And depression sets in. As the desease progresses you may want to think about placing Mom in LTC with Medicaid paying if she has no money.

I am glad that you are in counseling, because your view that you are "taking care of" your mother will do neither you nor your mother herself any favor whatsoever. Your Mom's view of life is her view of life. It isn't really up to you to change it, though you may ultimately find you wish to spend less time with her, and more with more positive friends as a result of it.
The best questions for your Mom when she expresses such a view is open ended and asking for more information.
For instance a statement such as: "I am so tired of it all" should not get "You don't appreciate how good you have it", but rather "what is bothering you, Mom, or is it just an accumulation of things?" You may find with a discussion that it is actually your Mom herself who will say "Well, I know I get around better than most my age, and I appreciate that, but my ingrown toenail is killing me". It narrows stuff down if you get my meaning, and you may find it is fun to "play around with" and helps your Mom see things for herself in different ways.
Your feeling you are taking care of your mother means you are treating her as a child, not as an adult, who is responsible for her own life. And while, as Beatty says, "there will be no solutions as long as you are all the solutions" is true, the symbiotic closeness you are maintaining both hinders you from breaking a natal cord while it allows your Mom to stay safe and comfortable where she is safe and comfortable.
There are lots of issues here. As you explore them with your therapist you will see so many ways of moving forward in a kind and gentle way with your Mom, and you will be able to help both her and yourself enormously. It's an adventure! I wish you great good luck with it.

Fact of life ...
Family dynamics..
Not all family dynamics can be changed. or "Fixed"
Another fact of life.
You can not change someone and how they react.
You can change how you react and deal with situations.
You are responsible for your own mental health.
You are not responsible for anyone else's mental health.
You obviously have been dealing with this for a long time.
You can't "fix" someone else.
Since she refuses counseling that is on her NOT you.

My advice on this is if it gets to be more than you can take you need to walk away for a while. If a disagreement starts, walk away. If she stars a "pity party" , walk away. If she starts victimizing herself, walk away. you get the idea...