It amazes me to receive such caring responses from those of you who care. I am a witness that your thoughtful responses can help a suffering person to move ahead and to make a “shift” in their perceptions, and therefore their thinking, and therefore, their suffering reduces. How awesome, how inspirational! Thank you!
BRAVO TO YOU CARING PERSONS WHO TRY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO STRANGERS! (and you know who you are).
I have participated in this forum for 3 1/2 yrs., mostly reading and learning from posters and responders alike. I’ve always been shy about actually asking for your help. Let’s call it many yrs. of “training” (that I don’t matter as much as others matter). It’s Just the way it has been. Why I accepted that in this family as long as I have, is a matter for another day.
BUT, I am happy to say that I DO understand it now, since I have pursued understanding of this family’s dynamics for over 50 yrs. I am grateful to have some insight into this. I needed it in order to have some peace. Am I fortunate to have these insights and relative peace that my questions are answered? Absolutely. Can I talk to mom about this? Nope. She would have a meltdown, as her grandiose self-concept melted into the dust. Can I talk to sis or bro about this? Nope. They only care about their own, and don’t want to “go there””
even tho I listened to their problems my entire life.
Who can I talk to ? You guys. A therapist ? Sure, but it would take so long to catch them up after 50 yrs., I’m not willing.
Besides, been there, done that, and never had a good “match”in a therapist since I couldn’t afford a “good” one.
I’m pretty smart, a good researcher, and have learned a lot in my yrs. as a health professional. I can be like a dog with a bone when pursuing a topic! So here I am.
I moved into mom’s home four years ago when she said she didn’t think she could manage on her own. I wish I had been more critical back then, because she COULD have managed for another two years with a little help from a caregiver a few hrs. per day. But, no! I made an emotional decision because mom said she needed me.
Looking back, I believe she mainly wanted help to get her back and forth to her casita in AZ, which I helped her to sell after our second season there together. Can’t help feeling she used me, you see. And, she did, regardless of my own life preferences. I was always a fool regarding my mother. I guess my point is that it seems she never considered ME, at all,
only her own needs.
But, I failed to ask important questions, and she failed to show me any “motherly” considerations—(MY WELFARE or happiness?). Nope. What? Am I a servant? Apparently.
Some of you have written: “you show others how to treat you”. In this, I have failed miserably with mom. I didn’t know this for most of my life. I only knew that if I didn’t act in a self-
deprecating or selfless manner, I would not be loved. I thought I was being an exemplary daughter by “sacrificing” my own needs to her wants. (Dad was abusive and emotionally absent). Kids know…. I “took care” of mom.
These insights took me many many years, as I thought my mom was an angel, perfect. Nope. I was brain-washed. So painful to see, now. But, since I’m here, I believe in integrity. I believe she does need my help, now. I believe she doesn’t see…( she does think she is without flaw, and, a victim of dad), and somehow she appears to believe her kids and grands all “owe” her something, simply because of who she thinks she is. The grands couldn’t care less. She never invested love in them. Some have said bad things about her.
So, I want to withdraw myself, my feelings I can care for her needs and still love her. But I don’t like her or the way she treats me. She has already noticed this withdrawal. She has always been hypervigilant about how others perceive her and treat her. Super-sensitive and defensive if confronted, even gently. I have sacrificed myself to her for too long.
Thoughts? Mom is 89, I’m 68.
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You and mother both care about the house, even though I’m sure that your brain says ‘it’s just a building, there are lots of lovely houses’. Also the house will eventually go – if and when mother has to go to a facility, or if it has to be sold. It’s a wrench, but my guess is that you could face it.
The ‘lovely you’ is just what mother wants, but you want your own ‘lovely self’ too. The two different wants aren’t compatible here. This is the normal situation where mother is never going to be convinced that she ‘ought’ to let you have some freedom. If you don’t force it, or trick it, it will NEVER happen, at least not while you can still have your own ‘lovely life’. You can’t face forcing it. So here’s a script to trick it.
You go to the doctor and report that he says you have to go as an inpatient in a hospital in another city for a week, to check for something complicated. For mother while you are away, you find the poshest, nicest hotel in town. She has full room service in a lovely apartment with a fantastic view. You hire a companion who will do the personal care and sleep on the spare bed in the separate living room of the apartment. (I am remembering that you said money wasn’t a big problem, as you can see!)
When you get back refreshed from the ‘hospital’, you report that the doctor has told you that you should de-stress, cut down on something awkard that you have been doing for mother, and that you will probably have repeat hospital stays every few months.
Both you and mother then go to see a counselor to help both of you work out how to manage the future. With luck, mother has actually enjoyed her time in the hotel, and has realised that there are other lovely places to live. You have found a crisis that forces a change in a much nicer way than waiting for a catastrophic fall (or indeed the ‘trick’ coming true for you). The counselor takes the burden of talking it through off your shoulders.
Can you pick out any workable parts of the script? I reckon it sounds quite enjoyable! Love, Margaret
I'm so happy for you that you're finally taking some part of your life back. You deserve it. I also hope you stand to inherit nicely when your mother finally dies because you deserve that too.
Reading your story and about your relationship with your mother is like we're the same person, only you're 20 years older than me. My mother is exactly like this. She too thinks she's the Madonna and a 'victim' of our father who is now deceased. He left when we were kids and was never much of a father to any of us, but he wasn't abusive. Even when he would try to have some kind of relationship with us she would always make sure to sabotage it and make it about her.
I have come to the realization that both of my parents are selfish, narcissistic, grandiose a$$holes. My mother wins the bonus round because she's also a martyr. My father no. He didn't do anything for me or my siblings, but he never expected anything from us either. He knew that none of us would be a caregiver to him if he ever became needy in his old age. He never did. He didn't try guilting any of us while he was in the nursing home because we didn't visit much or about getting him out. He didn't think we owed him anything, because he knew we didn't.
My mother is a different story. I'm forced to be her caregiver and she expects a slave that she can also abuse.
I'm pretty much withdrawing from her too. By getting a job. She accepts that my sister isn't going to take on any of the wretched caregiving responsibility because "she works" and "she has a life". So I decided to try some this myself. I'm taking myself out of the caregiving equation and I'm happy about it.
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There is something called paralysis by analysis AKA analysis paralysis, which means that overanalyzing and overthinking a situation prevents forward action and decision-making from happening.
As others have already pointed out, your mother could well live another 10+ years! What small actions can you start taking to set yourself free from the yoke you've put yourself under? What resources are available to your mother through her community? What is her budget for paying for them?
What happens to your mother if something happens to you? An 89 year old relying on a 68 year old is not a plan.
NY, it’s not so much that I am truly paralyzed with indecision about what is best for myself. It’s more that I cannot, CANnot choose to abandon my mother to others, depriving her of her very accessible and lovely home where she wants to be. If I am “stuck”, it is in change for HER. I LOVE HER. I want her to be as comfortable as she can be in her aging, and pain, and fears about what is next for her. She does not wish to go anywhere.
What I AM paralyzed about, is HOW to get my own needs met (privacy, liberty, and to recover a sense of self—because she would have it that I exist solely to serve her. I don’t think she sees it that way, but that is the way it is.) And I find I am in an impossible dilemma that I can’t see out of. I do hate to frame it in these words, but, It seems that either she “wins” and I “lose” or vice versa. (I hate win/lose).
I feel stuck. Mom has resources, so I am fortunately not “stuck” the way others on this forum are stuck, with no resources. I am very fortunate. I could place her. She has insurance. But she doesn’t want that. She wants to remain here, in her lovely home.
My best solution thus far, is for me to get my own little place to live while still caring for her along with some home health care. I don’t get much time away from her and I need it.
I have been watching the real estate market for two years now. There is little available in our small city, and now, prices have gone thru the roof. Also, very few rental properties exist here.
My two siblings are not helpful. They just want me to stay. Apparently, no regard for MY welfare at all. They prefer I don’t speak of myself, my needs. I tried.
So, I am on the cusp, as it were. I now have reached a decision. Mom can stay home with help, but not solely with my 24/7 help. I have put off making a change until Spring. Winters are as brutal here as they are in NY. (UP, Michigan).
Not sure what those changes will look like, yet. But if I could get just three nights away, weekly, or even twice a month, it would truly help.
Mom is declining. She can barely ambulated to the bathroom anymore. She has fallen twice and I can’t get her up from the floor myself. Part of me knows this is a matter of time until some event, such as falling, will make the decision for us. That fact is also part of my indecision, you see.
Thank you, NY, for your response to me. It was helpful. You helped me to think about how stuck in my thinking I am.
I am so grateful for this Forum.
It hung on a plaque on our kitchen wall all my growing up years. Didn't make sense to me at all! But at age 65, it really, really does!
My mother is also a classic Narc. When I am of no use to her I never hear from her--not a peep. When something is in the works, ie: I have some use for her, I suddenly and miraculously hear from her! As if the past 16 months of complete silence never happened.
My other sibs roll with this, it 'bothers' only me and I have worked for years to understand why she is this way. Truth is, at 91, she is not changing and she will probably outlive me!
Dh and I are retiring in the Spring and will be moving to a more 'one level' living space. I am anxious about it, and kind of sad, but all in all, I know it's for the best.
I don't do change well--and I am scared. Dh and I don't agree on anything, so this will be a huge challenge, for sure.
There's SO MANY of us out there--victims of mothers who couldn't look past themselves to give love freely and without expectation of return of some kind. At least we are able to talk about it and hopefully work through it.
My mom is a 'nice person' also. To people who are not family. When I tell you that my daughter moved home after 6 years of living in other states as her DH finished medical training and she has not been to see my mother (nor my DH's mom) in the 15 months they've been home--mother has not MET the youngest grandkid and never will. I asked YD why she hadn't been to see the gg's and she said "I'm not exposing my kids to that toxicity".
Sad, really. I've long since quit thinking my mom will change and show me some much-needed affection. Actually, I don't know that I really care anymore.
I’m not sure my mom is a narc, but she sure has a lot of the behaviors. I just never saw them because I was one of those fools who just sees the best in others. And I chose to see the best in mom. And, with that loving attitude, I think we bring out the best in others. My older sis was exactly like mom. She didn’t treat me well, either, but we were joined at the hip, so to speak. If I hadn’t been loving and selfless, we never would have had the close relationship we had. She has passed on, now, and I miss her.
I think your mom sounds like she was a nightmare to treat you that way. And I don’t know many details….My mom did not act that way. She tried to do the right thing, but her self-interests often got in the way.
I’m so sorry you had to go through such hell. That has to be what it felt like. I can’t imagine being “summoned” by your mother every now and then, only when she had a “use” for you. The ties that bind us…..
The story of your daughter moving back and refusing to expose her kid to the toxicity of your mother kind of says it all. Daughter sounds like a very good mother, so, you did good!
I know what you are saying about adapting to change. I have gotten resistant to it, also, and I sympathize with your upcoming change in residence next Spring. Hard to do. It
sounds like you and hubby might not be on quite the same page, but I will pray for you, dear one. I wish I had words of wisdom for you about THAT, but I have learned not to mess with marriage issues. Complicated.
I am so, so sorry to hear you are “scared”. Again, I will pray for you and hope you find peaceful acceptance and your own joy.
There is a lot to be said for simplicity. It’s my new mantra. When I finally get my own place, it will be one-level living, simple and easy. And as I age, I know I will be happy for that. I hope you are, too. I hope you are able to get some things in that move that make you happy and comfortable. For me, it is a private back yard where I can go sit, watch birds, a garden, and have peace. Simplicity can be joyful.
Thanks so much for your response to me, Midkid. You are awesome. You have so much to offer and to help those of us who need you. I appreciate you. K
It's so hard to break free but if we want any sanity and peace it's the only option.
My mother has both Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder.
serving. Not really selfish, but everything is about her, which has contributed to my feelings of worthlessness. I just don’t matter, compared to her. Never did. Was always her “servant”, in a way. That was my role in this dysfunctional family. She never admits any bad parenting. Only that she was a victim (of my abusive father). So, I just can’t talk to her about those things.
Have you posted a question on AC to get some help from the many experienced members here with your mom issues? Might help.
Thank you for responding to me. Support is awesome!
When I look back at the things I was slower to learn and kept going back to or being run over by (lol)- I try to see all the additional things/lessons/places and people that got added in that I would have otherwise missed (had I learned the first time or quicker).
There is a reason we all figure things out in our own time - try to not have regrets and start believing there is good reason - your positive shift has begun - let that “Lead”.
I always tell my mom “Dont look backwards - You are not going that way”.
Wishing you a continued positive shift ahead - to see yourself - see your value and also in learning to love and treat “yourself” in the same way you loved others. Seeing yourself as important doesn’t have to feel like guilt - it doesn’t mean you don’t love others - it just means you are just as worthy. YOU ARE.
Be good to you🦋 continued healing going forward
Definitely words to live by. I should have that tattooed to my forehead 😂.
I'm planning a seachange, a modest abode, a pet, some hobbies.
It's sometimes hard to imagine, landing on that new shore.. First I had to clutch on to known objects, then learn to float. Now I am planning the journey & learning to swim.
Where would you like to be?
I like your plan for yourself. Sounds lovely. As far as I’ve gotten thus far, I am planning on a small house or cottage by the edge of the woods where I can have a garden, maybe some fruit trees, and birds, I love birds. Two doggies.
I like a Craftsman style house with hardwood floors, plenty of woodwork and windows, and a few French doors. Maybe, on a river. I love the life on a river.
Well thanks for inspiring me. Your post energized me. I hope you find your seachange.
Well, that’s a matter of opinion, I’m sure.
Thank you for your comments. It does mean a lot to me.
Yes, I must care for myself, and haven’t been. I must.
While my mom is very precious to me, sometimes, I just want to run away because her needs are consuming the last best years of my life. And that is part of my despair. 💝
Your mother is 89 and may live another 10 years, requiring more and more help as time goes on. You are 68, and in 10 years’ time you are likely to be less fit and healthy than you are now. The step you need to think about is how to enjoy the next 5+ years – how to do some things for yourself while you can. You can do it, in spite of currently living with mother, Covid and all the other problems you face. Think about yourself, and set yourself a goal. You are a capable and intelligent person with a lot of strengths. Let the next time you come here be to share your goal and brainstorm for ways to achieve it!
Thank you so much for your sensitive and wise reply to me.
And thank you for recognizing that I have invested a lot of work, time, energy in trying to figure out my dilemma, mom, and how to move ahead. It is important to me that someone recognizes that effort. It isn’t easy to invest such effort in the hopes of finding better solutions in an extremely one-sided situation (e.g., mom wants what she wants; I just want a bit of fairness, appreciation, and peace). Meaning, it’s not ALL about her, as the last best years of my life drain away in the wake of her self-absorption, which you commented on.
Yes, Margaret, I have already noted a decline in my health in the 4 yrs. caring for mom, full-time, in her home. I am worried, as I don’t feel as good as I used to (I have been very, very blessed to have had good health my whole life). I’m not one to run to the doctor, but I will, once my cataract surgeries are completed, end of this month.
Yes, I need to figure out ways to enrich my life, have some fun, maybe. That will take a while, I think. But thanks for the reminder. I now have that idea firmly placed in my mind. I live in a small town in the north with few resources. Very hard to meet people I have much in common with. This website is my social outlet for now.
Mom’s mother lived to be 94. I fully expect that mom will do the same. Hence, my concern for myself. I cannot do this for 6 more years. I won’t live as long as she. I know this. So, my next 5-10 yrs. are probably it for me, I feel I can’t talk to her about these things. She doesn’t go there about “unpleasant” topics. Sometimes I think she believes she will never die!
I NEED to talk with her about these things. I am a pragmatic, realistic person. She, is not. At some point, my only option will be to “tell it like it is”, but, that is not today, and I want her to feel as “ in control” as she can, for as long as she can.
Thanks so much for your help.
I also think that there are certain personalities that Narcissists and abusers hone in on. Me, I don't do well in confrontations because I can't think fast enough so I just back off. For some this is a sign of weakness. I am compassionate and have felt used. I used to go along with my friends because I really didn't care. When I finally stood up for myself when I started feeling taken advantage of, it was OMG!
You are a person with feelings too. You deserve to be treated as the adult you are. Tell Mom no one owes her anything because she is their mother or Grandmother. That at this point, she needs you more than you need her. If you haven't already, look up "gray rock". If Mom can be left alone, go do something for yourself. If not, find someone who will sit with her using her money. When she complains about her grands, tell her they don't like her. At a point you have to be honest.
I understand you. I was never good at confrontations, either,
but I am better than I used to be. Just not with mom. I do think that some things are too late with her and that kindness toward her is the best route forward. I don’t need to be “right” with mom, I just need to be able to say “no” and disagree without ANY more guilt. I’m getting there. I can see in her face that she recognizes changes in me. For now, that’s enough.
I believe you’re right that narcs and bullies hone in on certain vulnerable “types”. Not that we are “weak”. That I know. Perhaps it’s more that we are open, caring, and compassionate. I never regretted being that way. I just wish I had known better how to protect myself. People like us get taken advantage of, and if it happens often enough, we can get jaded. I decided long ago that I did not want to become jaded. I’d rather feel the pain, and hope I’d learn! Sorry to go on, but it feels so good to “talk”.
Yes, I know “gray rock”. I have researched narcissism.
Took me 3 yrs. of research and trying to believe that maybe this answered some painful questions. I still have trouble with the label. Rather, mom is “emotionally immature”, as Gibson writes of in her book “Adult children of emotionally immature parents”. Hugely helpful.
Thanks Joann. You are kind to help me. And you did.
Last night I told my mother that she's turned me into The Bad Guy for my entire life and I'm now used to it. Sick and tired of it, but USED to it. That I'm done trying to help her, and she's on her own at the Memory Care ALF in that regard, so she can ask THEM for the help she seems to think I'm The Bad Guy for offering her. She's pulled the football away from me for The. Last. Time.
That's my thoughts on the subject. I'm 64 and my mother is 94.5. This super toxic 'relationship' can go on and on and ON for another 5 years or more, who knows? Until my ulcers eat my body up and I'm a mere shell of who I once was. Or, I can step back, let the staff and the doctor who sees her at the MC deal with her BS and histrionics and take care of MYSELF and my sick DH for a change. Oh boy, doesn't THAT sound like the smart plan? Because let me tell you something: women like this can easily outlive US. My DH just said to me today that he bets HER heart is in better condition than HIS heart is, and he's 63.
There's no 'sin' and no crime in putting yourself first for once.
I feel like I can always count on you, even if I am not ready to hear what you say !…I liked the Peanuts analogy… the thing is I didn’t realize these things about mom until I moved in here and witnessed them from day to day. So, 60 years of knowing, no. But, I wish. It would have saved so much grief.
So, many of my realizations are actually very, very fresh, like 3 yrs. old! That’s why I’m both in a little shock, a little grieving, a little confused, AND, maybe a little hopeful to be seeing a way out of the torture I have felt!
Lealonnie, your description of last night with your mother sounded like you are at the end of your rope and done. So sorry to hear that you had to confront that. You have hung on to pure scraps as long as you could, yes? No one in their right mind could fault you, dear, not even Charlie Brown! And, yes, you must care for yourself now, and DH. You have provided enough, enough, enough.
No one tells us how to do this, but you have decided how much is enough, and I respect the example you are providing for sharing this. Thank you so very much. Rest well, and be peaceful. You have earned it. Thanks for your kindness to me.
don’t sacrifice yourself.
i bet you indeed are an exemplary daughter. i bet you’re a very sweet person.
live your life.
68. go for it!!
somehow find a good solution, so you can live your life. a loving mother would want that for you.
a loving mother doesn’t want you to sacrifice your life.
big, big hugs to you.
bundle of joy :)
Thanks so much for your very kind response.
Best of luck!
Very kind of you to say I am brave. I don’t feel brave, but the fact that you think so makes me feel braver.
I have been very isolated these four years. I know no one except the few remaining friends mom had. I feel I might need help socializing again! I feel very boring, although I haven’t always been that.
thanks so much for your encouragement and positive words!