Hi all.
There's a lot I could ask but I'll focus on the issue right now. My grandfather moved from one nursing home to my home, then to a new nursing home. He was in another town and wanted to be closer. I spoke with the facility and they said sure yes that's fine. The move went on without a hitch but the old nursing home told him before he was leaving that since he stayed there a day into the new month, he had to pay whatever the payment was. He signed an agreement while I was busy trying to track down his clothes (still haven't found them all).
He stayed with me a bit, sending them about a hundred a month and then got sick and moved into a new nursing home. I get a letter demanding $200+ from the old nursing home. I get confused and at the time was speaking to a ombudsman about other issues. She assures me that I don't have to pay since he's in a new nursing home, that she will deal with it, that Medicaid was supposed to tell them as such, etc.
She did not. In fact I haven't heard from her in two months. Today the old nursing home calls the new one and gets my grandfather, who calls me screaming about it (he has a very big temper).
So am I really supposed to pay this? I get that he was on the hook for it, yes, but he's in there now, and I can't feasibly drop $200 out of nowhere. As I tried to tell him, I have other bills to pay myself, food for the family, treats that he demands me to get for him, gas money for work, etc.
I guess I will if I absolutely have to, which is shaping up that it seems to be. But I'd love an answer on if the ombudsman was truthful or not.
This is in Texas btw.
6 Answers
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Is he still with it? Does he pay his own bills? Or do you handle his checkbook? Does he have the $ to pay the bill?
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The problem I see here is Medicaid. Because granddad had stayed an extra day, Medicaid won't pay that because they paid that to the new home. What happened to Dads Personal Needs Acct at the old home? Were monies transferred to the knew home? Was there any stimulus money in the acct? If so, that can be used to pay off the balance. Also, you should be using his PNA for anything you purchase for him. Check to see how you set that up. You will need a receipt to show what you purchased. You may need to show what was purchased. I never had to use my Moms acct. But was able to get the money and place in her estate acct. Does Dad have anything from his spend down? States usually allow at least 2k left in an acct. You can use that, its a debt.
You may want to set up some boundries with granddad. You have valid reasons why you cannot afford to do certain things for him. Sounds like he may not be an easy person to deal with. Maybe that is why the first home said "sure yes that's fine". They were glad he was leaving.
I am with Alva that its probably just easier to pay the $200. But try this, call the NH and make it clear that you are not responsible for this bill, Granddad is. And because he is on Medicaid, that he has no money to pay the debt. He was able to pay what he did only because he was living with you for awhile. Once back on Medicaid, he has no money other than his PNA. (which can't be used for payment of room and board) Since they can't, by law, place a judgement on his SS they will just need to write the balance off.
And ask them not to call granddad because there is nothing he can do but hollar at you. If they insist, and you feel obligated, then set up a payment plan, $25 a month. The lowest amount u can afford.
If they send it to collections, it should be to ur grandfather. Now, I know of an instance where the person was placed in a NH 2 or 3 days before the first of the month. Medicaid only paid from the first of the month on. Not sure if the person has a guardian or the person was able to sign off but out of $50 our state allows for the PNA, the home was deducting $30 a month to offset the $800+ they were owed for the days Medicaid did not cover. Ask the new home if they have ever experienced this and how can u go about having it deducted.
I would again explain to granddad that you are not responsible financially for him. You have bills of your own and responsibility to family. Explain that he has a PNA acct that he can draw from. Any NHs I have been in have vending machines. He needs u more than you need him. He does not dictate to you. You tell him "when I can". "The next time I visit." He is safe where he is. He gets 3 meals a day and snacks. He has aides to help him. If you can't afford his treats, tell him. Where are his kids?
However, whatever the circumstances, if your Father did sign papers, and was not demented at the time, then the bill and agreement is his. For myself I would not be putting myself through this, and through creditors calls when this paper is sold to collectors for pennies on the dollar. I would pay the 100.00 one month and 100.00 the next and be done with this.
Make it clear to your Dad's current nursing home that he is not competent to sign papers if that is the case. You will likely have to submit papers then from his MD saying he is not competent to sign. I am assuming you are already his POA (hoping you are).
Wishing you good luck. In these things you must choose the hill you will die on. Your Father is asking you to pay his bill. Even if he has given you POA that would be his direction to you; you should follow it, but with HIS money. When his money is gone the simple answer to creditors is that there is no money. If they wish to pursue and put a lien on a home or property it will likely not be for an amount like 200.00.
Since the old NH knows you are willing to do this, and have been doing it, they will continue to come after you. Although technically, this is gfather's bill.
It really all comes down to the contract gfather signed. If there was an 'early move out' clause, you make be stuck paying for that month. I know it sounds wrong, but I also know that these places make nothing if someone breaks a lease...can you get hold of it and read it carefully?
Sadly, since gpa signed the form indicating he'd pay for the month, there probably isn't a lot you can do. Maybe you can split the difference or maybe you will just not pay. IDK. Again--YOU shouldn't be paying for gpa's care. This is HIS problem. Hopefully he's able to mentally do it. If he signed the original lease breaker contract and is considered fit to know the consequences of that action, he's probably on the hook for the month's 'rent'.