My mother wants to stay with me and refuses to go back to the live in facility. Can I just keep her and not take her back?
She has the mentality of an 8 year old, and is easily manipulated by the caretakers of the placement she is at. I provide her clothing, her personals, such as diapers, liners and everyday essentials, so what are the facilities obligations?
I can feel your pain and your love for your mother. I can remember as a child, visiting my grandparents. And when my mom would come, I would run and hide and cry because I didn't want to go home. Not because I didn't love my parents. But because I didn't want to go back to the structure and rules at home. Because at my grandparents I got to do what I wanted to do, it was always about fun, about what I wanted to do. They focused all of their attention on me. They had boundless energy, all of the activities were my choice. And anything I needed or wanted I received. When it was time to go home, all I was thinking was "No, that means I have to go back to doing chores, and following rules and doing homework, I don't want to go".
Now, I'm in no way making light of your concerns for your mother. My childish rebellion is of course different from your mother's child-like actions. But my focus is from a different perspective. As a parent now myself, I can 100% see why it was so easy for my grandparents to have boundless energy. They had me a couple of days. I would come and visit and they cleared their time to focus on me. They planned activities and bought food and that time was just for me. They didn't have to work, or visit their friends, or do any of the things they would normally do, no housework, or chores of their own, because they specifically cleared their own calendar to spend time with me. All of their normal activities would wait until I had gone back home. So of course it was easy for them to focus their energy on me.
Had they actually had to focus that energy on me 24/7/365 that would have ended fast. The fun, the activities, the boundless energy would have gone back to their normal every day focus after a little while. At some point they would have had to do their regular activities. They could not have just stopped their lives indefinitely to focus 100% on me all of the time.
So, ask yourself. Do you want to be able to be fresh and energetic and be able to give her 100% of yourself when you are with her and visit and enjoy those happy times with her? How long can you maintain that energy level if you bring her to live with you? How many years can you maintain that 24/7? Do you truly know ALL of her daily needs and are you aware of every single daily requirement that may impact your life.
You say that you have all of the time in the world - that you have raised your children and you have been a caregiver to others. Do you have anything for yourself that you love to do? Would you be happy visiting her more often? Finding other things to occupy your time? As someone else mentioned, we as a forum can't tell you that you should or shouldn't do this. But have you really searched your heart for WHY you feel so strongly that you need to when she is already being cared for? Do you feel that she is unsafe? Do you feel like you have an unpaid debt? I read your profile and you've had a uniquely special mother/child bond for sure. But perhaps you should give yourself the time to investigate your mom's unique situation and ensure that she has the perfect caregiving situation before moving her out of the home. You don't want to move too quickly for her sake and for your own.
So I would take a deep breath, take a look at your options, and see what choices you have before making any big decisions.
Because there is a Administrator of the Regional center, I would say Mom is under the care of the State meaning there is a guardian. Maybe this is what the Administrator of the Regional center is. If so, for now your hands are tied. Not sure how u would go about getting guardianship when the State is involved. A nice NH would be better than where she is. I would also find out if this group home is licenced by the State. If so, you may be able to take you complaints to a State Ombudsman or the State licensing board. Even calling in APS to check out the home if the Administrator is not willing to investigate. But, I would be careful, because your visits could be cut off if u become a problem they don't want to deal with.
I would put all your complaints in writing and email them to the Administor. Like:
"As per our conversation today concerning my Mothers care in the home she now resides. We discussed... with you agreeing to investigate the situation" Something to that effect.
If the Administrator does not agree with your email, she/he will respond. If he/she does not respond, imo that means he/she is in agreement.
Medicare will pay for a podiatrist every 10 weeks. She if there is one who will come to the home or you take her. At her age her eyes should be checked yearly. If she is on Medicaid, see if vision is covered, if so, then take her to an Ophthalmologist who is an MD and can surgically remove her cataracts. The problem would be the drops needed before and after the procedure. Medicare also pays for this and glasses. Medicare only pays for the basic lenses. If you want to see without glasses, u pay out of pocket for that.
If the state is guardian, they are in charge of her care and should be making sure she is getting it. Like I said, she would be better off in a nice NH. A nice NH would cut down on your out of pocket which I still think is wrong. If there was not you, wouldn't they have to supply for her?
In the end, you may need to get a lawyer involved to find out the truth. Its a shame that your grandparents didn't look ahead and set up Moms care years ago but then...that was a different time with little resources or none at all.
I advise against taking care of her 24/7. Unless you want to end up being tied to house w a ball & chain. You will end up in bed next to her too. Please take her back to facility! Live your life & just go visit! Don’t do this to yourself. 4 years & 8 months ago, I was going to take my mother home for her 90 th bday weekend. I had a big party for her at her favorite restaurant. But I decided to discharge her from SNF & take her home. Big mistake. PLEASE Don’t do it. Hugs 🤗
Its a group home. So I would say yes, like an Assisted living you would need to provide her private needs. They may only be getting her SS. Just read that Medicaid will in part pay for a group home. If this is true, then the group home should have a PNA set aside where, depending on the state, a small amount of her SS goes to a Personal Needs acct to help with her personal needs.
"My uncle who has passed on was my mom’s guardian, but a family member put her in placement without my knowledge."
I would wonder how this was done? The family Member would not be able to get POA because Mom is not competent to assign one. Maybe temporary guardianship?
"She has a regional center worker who I keep in contact with, but I really never get a direct answer when I ask if can just keep her with me."
This makes me think that the State was made her guardian. If so, that is why you can't get certain information. And to be honest, you taking her out for visits is kind of cruel knowing she does not want to return.
The question you need to ask the caseworker is if the State is her guardian. If so, they are not required to tell you anything. Actually, as the guardian, they should be supplying Mom with anything she needs.
I would also ask if a PNA has been set up and if so can you be reimbursed from that account. Depends are costly so may be nice getting at least that back.
As already posted, taking someone in at the age of 81 and mentally challenged will be a big undertaking. People born with mental challenges usually suffer from some form of Dementia later in life. You Mom may have it and no one realizes it. With Dementia you can have behavioural problems that can be aggressive and violent. Maybe instead of removing Mom you can ask for another placement. Not sure how you can get guardianship if the State already has it? A question for a lawyer.
What is the home responsible for? They are responsible to keep Mom fed, clean and warm. How do you feel the aides manipulate her?
My mom came with clothes that were not hers, I buy my moms clothes and label them, when I questioned where her clothes were they stated they didn’t know, they would ask the other caretakers that come in on a daily basis if they knew. I provide my mother with her personals (Depends, liners, shampoo, body wash, Assurance personal wash clothes, towels, wash cloth, blankets, sheets, groceries, Ensure drinks, clothing, shoes, laundry soap, hand soap, hand sanitizers, face masks, gloves, bottled water, and petty cash for her to buy snacks at her Day Program)As far as keeping her clean, I’ve picked up my mom with rashes in places that were uncalled for. She hasn’t been to a podiatrist in about 2 years, she has cataracts in both eyes, I bought her a walker so that she can get around a lil easier. I’m just waiting on a return call that’s been a long time waiting from an Administrator of the Regional center as to what is my next step…
What a facility supplies depends on what kind of facility it is. Assisted living communities normally do not provide things like diapers, sundries, or OTC medications. Nursing homes and memory care facilities usually supply the diapers, sundries and OTC medications. Well they should for what is being paid to them every month for a resident. Other services like hair cuts, nail care, and shaving for men are not included in a resident's bill and have to pay separately for these things. If you want to try taking care of your mother yourself, then you should try. If she loses her spot in the nursing home she's in, there are others if you need to place her again.
We on a forum cannot possibly answer the question as to whether you can 'just keep her & not take her back' to the placement facility your mother is living at. Mainly b/c we don't know if she would lose her spot, her benefits, etc. You need to speak directly to the administrator of your mother's facility and don't leave until you get a precise ANSWER, period. Do realize that once you take your mother with the 'mentality of an 8 year old' home with you, and if she were to lose her place at the facility, then if you realize you're in over your head with her 24/7 care, what then? What often looks like a good idea on paper can turn into a nightmare in reality. You may be better off taking mom out of the facility for frequent visits than to remove her entirely and be responsible for her 24/7. Do you work, and if so, is she able to stay home alone while you're gone? There are many factors to consider.
You say that you provide mom's clothing & personals and ask what the facility's obligations are...........and the answer is, everything ELSE, which is the 24/7 care that is involved. You are simply providing her material needs while the facility and their care team is providing everything ELSE which is the main part OF caregiving! Caregiving is a huge job that can take all of one person's mental and physical stamina, in reality!
The decision lies with you, but please think long and hard before you make any concrete decisions. This is a good place to read posts before making up your mind.
Right now you are struggling with wanting to make mom happy and the unknown of full time care.
To answer your question, yes, you can take her out of the facility she's in. BUT, she'll lose her 'spot' and 6 months down the road when you are worn to a nub, you won't have many options and she may wind up in a NH that is not good for her.
I'd stick with a couple days a week of taking her out for 'fun trips'. Then returning her to her 'home' and you go to yours.
I can take mother for about 6 hours, MAXIMUM, if I have to. But if she lived with me...I'd be completely insane within a month.
I have four 8 year old grandkids. They are a delight, until they aren't. Manipulative? My, yes. Fun? Absolutely! Exhausting? You better believe it.
The option of taking them back home when they're over the top, behavior wise, is a good fall back. Same with an elder who acts 8.
Ladybug66, I would recommend that you ask the facility if you can take her for multiple days without her losing her financial assistance and bed. Because you don't want to have a problem with that and find out she isn't as easy as a day visit seemed.
Have you looked into the care she is receiving to make sure it is good? You are her advocate now and that means you make sure she is getting appropriate care and not being mistreated.
You say that she has the mentality of an 8 year old, well, I, personally, have never met an 8 year old that couldn't manipulate like a seasoned professional. You must realize that you and your trips are new and exciting. You probably step and fetch and make her feel so special and spoiled, which who doesn't want to feel that and rebel against giving it up? 8 year olds can also be world class liars to play on our heart strings.
The questions you must ask yourself are; "Can I realistically keep this pace up for years, every single day?" "What will I do when the new and exciting has worn off and I have a petulant, tantrum throwing 8 year old in an 81 year old body?" Because you can spank a child for being ugly and breaking things but, you can not spank a vulnerable adult, it is considered abuse. "How much does my life matter to me?" Because she will become your entire existence, as a disabled 8 year old would. You can't leave her, ever, because an 8 year old doesn't have the mental acuity to be alone and deal with life issues, such as a fire or another emergency. Legally in most states a child must be 12 years old to be left without adult supervision, there are a lot of very good reasons for this.
If you can devote 24/7/365 for an indefinite amount of years, how about starting with picking her up early, providing all of her needs, meals, showers, incontinence changes, everything and return her when it is time for bed. You would prep her for bed and tuck her in. Oh, when you pick her up early, if she has soiled her bed, be sure and strip those sheets to take home and wash. Ask the facility for clean ones to make her bed before you leave, because she will be tired when you bring her back and likely not want to wait for you to make up her bed. Don't forget her medications and the schedule she is on. Be sure and find out when her medical appointments are take her back in time to sit and wait for every one of them, because she will no longer have an in house provider and you will be driving her to all of her appointments, might as well see how that works.
I understand wanting to scoop her up and make her happy. I really do but, there is so much more to caring for a senior, disabled loved one then one day can show us. If you really want to improve her quality of life and retain your own, be there everyday, do enrichment activities with her, take her on day trips, help her with her ADLs and see how you manage before you completely disrupt her life. I am not saying don't take her to live with you, I am asking you to really step in everyday and see what it truly involves first.
That way you won't have to feel bad if it doesn't work and she needs to be placed again.
Was your mom born mentally handicapped or was it an accident? I ask because it changes what services will always be available to her.
Edit: whether you can take her depends on who is her legal guardian. The odds that the state is are pretty high. Our system doesn't just leave vulnerable people on their own when their court appointed guardian dies. You need this information before you just don't take her back, because that could cause kidnapping charges.
My mother was born this way. The facility houses my mom and another woman. There are different caretakers each day that are in that facility. It is privately owned and the owner always ask me if I’m going to bring her back. She has a regional center worker who I keep in contact with, but I really never get a direct answer when I ask if can just keep her with me. I’ve always followed the guidelines, participated in the family reunification and yet I feel as if I’m still standing still and not moving any closer to getting her. I’m her only child, born out of rape none the less, so I just want to protect my mother while I still can. I don’t know what to do cause the facility won’t answer any questions when it come to me just keeping her. I have to take her back today and she is crying and doesn’t want to go…she just says …’I want to stay with you’.
Did she used to live with your uncle? And got placed in a facility upon his death?
It's nice that you pick her up for visits.
BUT, I would say, please, do not take on the responsibility of caring for her at home. She is 81 and has the mentality of an 8 year old? She will need so much care and supervision. That is a HUGE thing to take on. Having her for visits could give you the feeling that you can easily handle her. But a visit is easy to tolerate. It's the day to day grind of 24/7 caregiving that wears people out.
Maybe you can visit more often to make her life a little more cheery. Send her cards. Bring her a nice snack.
Yes, she use to live with my uncle until his passing, then a relative placed her in this facility. I have all the time in the world to tend to her, all my 8 kids are grown with families of their own, it’s just me, and I have been taking care of loved ones who were on home dialysis and so forth…when other family members refused to take care of them…so it’s something thing I know I can handle, mentally, physically and emotionally…I just need to be pointed in the right direction as to how to obtain her without having to go through playing phone tag and hearing we will get back to you…I’ve been hearing this for over a year now…give or take 2 because of the pandemic when I wasn’t allowed to even see her for that whole year….
Is this other relative your Mother's legal guardian?
That's who needs to approve of a new arrangement.
Perhaps you want to go to court to becaome your mother's guardian? It's a big responsibility, but if you are willing to take it on, you should start by finding out who has control now and if they are willing to allow you to seek guardianship unopposed.
My uncle who has passed on was my mom’s guardian, but a family member put her in placement without my knowledge. Now the facility allows me to pick her up, but I just want her with me. I have a room for her all set up since I found out she was in placement. She cries every time I have to take her back and it hurts me to see her that way, she should be enjoying her life..not dreading going back to a placement…
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Now, I'm in no way making light of your concerns for your mother. My childish rebellion is of course different from your mother's child-like actions. But my focus is from a different perspective. As a parent now myself, I can 100% see why it was so easy for my grandparents to have boundless energy. They had me a couple of days. I would come and visit and they cleared their time to focus on me. They planned activities and bought food and that time was just for me. They didn't have to work, or visit their friends, or do any of the things they would normally do, no housework, or chores of their own, because they specifically cleared their own calendar to spend time with me. All of their normal activities would wait until I had gone back home. So of course it was easy for them to focus their energy on me.
Had they actually had to focus that energy on me 24/7/365 that would have ended fast. The fun, the activities, the boundless energy would have gone back to their normal every day focus after a little while. At some point they would have had to do their regular activities. They could not have just stopped their lives indefinitely to focus 100% on me all of the time.
So, ask yourself. Do you want to be able to be fresh and energetic and be able to give her 100% of yourself when you are with her and visit and enjoy those happy times with her? How long can you maintain that energy level if you bring her to live with you? How many years can you maintain that 24/7? Do you truly know ALL of her daily needs and are you aware of every single daily requirement that may impact your life.
You say that you have all of the time in the world - that you have raised your children and you have been a caregiver to others. Do you have anything for yourself that you love to do? Would you be happy visiting her more often? Finding other things to occupy your time?
As someone else mentioned, we as a forum can't tell you that you should or shouldn't do this. But have you really searched your heart for WHY you feel so strongly that you need to when she is already being cared for? Do you feel that she is unsafe? Do you feel like you have an unpaid debt? I read your profile and you've had a uniquely special mother/child bond for sure. But perhaps you should give yourself the time to investigate your mom's unique situation and ensure that she has the perfect caregiving situation before moving her out of the home. You don't want to move too quickly for her sake and for your own.
So I would take a deep breath, take a look at your options, and see what choices you have before making any big decisions.
Even calling in APS to check out the home if the Administrator is not willing to investigate. But, I would be careful, because your visits could be cut off if u become a problem they don't want to deal with.
I would put all your complaints in writing and email them to the Administor. Like:
"As per our conversation today concerning my Mothers care in the home she now resides. We discussed... with you agreeing to investigate the situation" Something to that effect.
If the Administrator does not agree with your email, she/he will respond. If he/she does not respond, imo that means he/she is in agreement.
Medicare will pay for a podiatrist every 10 weeks. She if there is one who will come to the home or you take her. At her age her eyes should be checked yearly. If she is on Medicaid, see if vision is covered, if so, then take her to an Ophthalmologist who is an MD and can surgically remove her cataracts. The problem would be the drops needed before and after the procedure. Medicare also pays for this and glasses. Medicare only pays for the basic lenses. If you want to see without glasses, u pay out of pocket for that.
If the state is guardian, they are in charge of her care and should be making sure she is getting it. Like I said, she would be better off in a nice NH. A nice NH would cut down on your out of pocket which I still think is wrong. If there was not you, wouldn't they have to supply for her?
In the end, you may need to get a lawyer involved to find out the truth. Its a shame that your grandparents didn't look ahead and set up Moms care years ago but then...that was a different time with little resources or none at all.
Please keep us updated.
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"My uncle who has passed on was my mom’s guardian, but a family member put her in placement without my knowledge."
I would wonder how this was done? The family Member would not be able to get POA because Mom is not competent to assign one. Maybe temporary guardianship?
"She has a regional center worker who I keep in contact with, but I really never get a direct answer when I ask if can just keep her with me."
This makes me think that the State was made her guardian. If so, that is why you can't get certain information. And to be honest, you taking her out for visits is kind of cruel knowing she does not want to return.
The question you need to ask the caseworker is if the State is her guardian. If so, they are not required to tell you anything. Actually, as the guardian, they should be supplying Mom with anything she needs.
I would also ask if a PNA has been set up and if so can you be reimbursed from that account. Depends are costly so may be nice getting at least that back.
As already posted, taking someone in at the age of 81 and mentally challenged will be a big undertaking. People born with mental challenges usually suffer from some form of Dementia later in life. You Mom may have it and no one realizes it. With Dementia you can have behavioural problems that can be aggressive and violent.
Maybe instead of removing Mom you can ask for another placement. Not sure how you can get guardianship if the State already has it? A question for a lawyer.
What is the home responsible for? They are responsible to keep Mom fed, clean and warm. How do you feel the aides manipulate her?
Assisted living communities normally do not provide things like diapers, sundries, or OTC medications.
Nursing homes and memory care facilities usually supply the diapers, sundries and OTC medications. Well they should for what is being paid to them every month for a resident. Other services like hair cuts, nail care, and shaving for men are not included in a resident's bill and have to pay separately for these things.
If you want to try taking care of your mother yourself, then you should try. If she loses her spot in the nursing home she's in, there are others if you need to place her again.
You say that you provide mom's clothing & personals and ask what the facility's obligations are...........and the answer is, everything ELSE, which is the 24/7 care that is involved. You are simply providing her material needs while the facility and their care team is providing everything ELSE which is the main part OF caregiving! Caregiving is a huge job that can take all of one person's mental and physical stamina, in reality!
The decision lies with you, but please think long and hard before you make any concrete decisions. This is a good place to read posts before making up your mind.
Good luck!
To answer your question, yes, you can take her out of the facility she's in. BUT, she'll lose her 'spot' and 6 months down the road when you are worn to a nub, you won't have many options and she may wind up in a NH that is not good for her.
I'd stick with a couple days a week of taking her out for 'fun trips'. Then returning her to her 'home' and you go to yours.
I can take mother for about 6 hours, MAXIMUM, if I have to. But if she lived with me...I'd be completely insane within a month.
I have four 8 year old grandkids. They are a delight, until they aren't. Manipulative? My, yes. Fun? Absolutely! Exhausting? You better believe it.
The option of taking them back home when they're over the top, behavior wise, is a good fall back. Same with an elder who acts 8.
Have you looked into the care she is receiving to make sure it is good? You are her advocate now and that means you make sure she is getting appropriate care and not being mistreated.
You say that she has the mentality of an 8 year old, well, I, personally, have never met an 8 year old that couldn't manipulate like a seasoned professional. You must realize that you and your trips are new and exciting. You probably step and fetch and make her feel so special and spoiled, which who doesn't want to feel that and rebel against giving it up? 8 year olds can also be world class liars to play on our heart strings.
The questions you must ask yourself are; "Can I realistically keep this pace up for years, every single day?" "What will I do when the new and exciting has worn off and I have a petulant, tantrum throwing 8 year old in an 81 year old body?" Because you can spank a child for being ugly and breaking things but, you can not spank a vulnerable adult, it is considered abuse. "How much does my life matter to me?" Because she will become your entire existence, as a disabled 8 year old would. You can't leave her, ever, because an 8 year old doesn't have the mental acuity to be alone and deal with life issues, such as a fire or another emergency. Legally in most states a child must be 12 years old to be left without adult supervision, there are a lot of very good reasons for this.
If you can devote 24/7/365 for an indefinite amount of years, how about starting with picking her up early, providing all of her needs, meals, showers, incontinence changes, everything and return her when it is time for bed. You would prep her for bed and tuck her in. Oh, when you pick her up early, if she has soiled her bed, be sure and strip those sheets to take home and wash. Ask the facility for clean ones to make her bed before you leave, because she will be tired when you bring her back and likely not want to wait for you to make up her bed. Don't forget her medications and the schedule she is on. Be sure and find out when her medical appointments are take her back in time to sit and wait for every one of them, because she will no longer have an in house provider and you will be driving her to all of her appointments, might as well see how that works.
I understand wanting to scoop her up and make her happy. I really do but, there is so much more to caring for a senior, disabled loved one then one day can show us. If you really want to improve her quality of life and retain your own, be there everyday, do enrichment activities with her, take her on day trips, help her with her ADLs and see how you manage before you completely disrupt her life. I am not saying don't take her to live with you, I am asking you to really step in everyday and see what it truly involves first.
That way you won't have to feel bad if it doesn't work and she needs to be placed again.
Was your mom born mentally handicapped or was it an accident? I ask because it changes what services will always be available to her.
Edit: whether you can take her depends on who is her legal guardian. The odds that the state is are pretty high. Our system doesn't just leave vulnerable people on their own when their court appointed guardian dies. You need this information before you just don't take her back, because that could cause kidnapping charges.
It's nice that you pick her up for visits.
BUT, I would say, please, do not take on the responsibility of caring for her at home. She is 81 and has the mentality of an 8 year old? She will need so much care and supervision. That is a HUGE thing to take on. Having her for visits could give you the feeling that you can easily handle her. But a visit is easy to tolerate. It's the day to day grind of 24/7 caregiving that wears people out.
Maybe you can visit more often to make her life a little more cheery. Send her cards. Bring her a nice snack.
That's who needs to approve of a new arrangement.
Perhaps you want to go to court to becaome your mother's guardian? It's a big responsibility, but if you are willing to take it on, you should start by finding out who has control now and if they are willing to allow you to seek guardianship unopposed.