Can someone help me?

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Babs2013 Asked January 2022

Can someone help me?

This is my situation. I was taking care of my BIL for the past 11 yrs and became his rep payee of soc sec because he has dementia. He was hospitalized for an appendix abscess a year ago then his niece and sister got POA on medical but the notary person wasn't there in his room when he signed the paperwork and when we signed the paperwork for witnesses she wasn't there either. We were forced to do it. Now having problems with the niece who thinks she has a right to do anything to him or for him when she doesn't have a clue to him being diabetic, heart disease, and kidney disease. For the diabetic side we went to a nurse to help with what kinds of food for him but she thinks she can feed him anything she wants him to have. Their words were we keep him happy and comfortable. He isn't on any kind of diabetes meds. I am buying foods that he can eat since its my responsibility to do that because of him having dementia and cannot drive anymore because of this and his seizures. And that is another problem them telling him he can drive when in fact the doctor told him he couldn't they give him hope and I have to be the one to take it away because he can't register his vehicle or have insurance on his vehicle because he isn't a licensed driver because I have to pay for all of this but when it comes to licensing the vehicle again I can't do it legally so here sits a vehicle not being driven. They keep telling me they have to do this because of his dementia.

I am fit to be tied. The niece just was covid positive she did her 5 days of quarantine now she is going to take her uncle my BIL to the doctors when I could do it haven't been around anyone with covid. Just can't understand why she would put her uncle at risk when he has had covid in November which it wasn't good on him not a mild case. Why put him in danger again?

Just need some reassuring that I am not the bad guy here. The niece doesn't have a medical background doesn't see what she is doing wrong won't take any suggestions from other people including his doctor at the time and the nurse at the other clinic she just switches him to another clinic. She wants them to jump thru her hoop. Had no problem with the other clinic until this POA stepped in with her loud mouth.

Thanks for listening to me. It just helps to get it off of my chest don't have anyone to listen to me.

Alzheimer's & Dementia Elder Law Relationships

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score 3 · Answer 1

Let us know what kind of help we can provide to you.
Go back to attorney to find out what your legal rights are.
Call Adult Protective Services if you feel this is required.

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score 3 · Answer 2

Babs2013: Something seems to be majorly amiss here. I am not sure who "forced you" to sign anything in regard to Power of Attorney, which wasn't done with a notary public present, nor with any witness at hand. Perchance you will have to retain an elder law attorney. You are NOT the bad guy. It is IMPERATIVE that your BIL's physician is notified about his diabetic needs, which are not being met before it does potential damage to his health.

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score 1 · Answer 3

Its sounds awful, and you are not the bad guy. They are idiots and i bet if you gave them the ball, they would not run with it, they would throw it back to you because they don't know what to do and have no clue what danger they could put him in. God bless the poor elderly people that have no control over their lives. Good luck.

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score 2 · Answer 4

Babs,

If BIL was diagnosed with dementia 5 years ago, the POA cannot be valid!

Did the doctor who did the diagnosis fill out a disability form? We had a doctor fill out one for my dad's guardianship hearing. I don't remember the form number or name but it was a general disability form, asking how long the person was expected to be disabled. The doctor thought that was a pretty crazy question under the circumstances: "It's DEMENTIA."

Something to add to your complaint to adult protective services.

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score 1 · Answer 5

You're not the bad guy here and my heart goes out to you as you have your BIL's best interests as your priority while niece seems to have her own best interests in mind. Since the POA wasn't notarized, it's not legal - BuT you don't know if somehow niece got a friend to notarize it, at which point you are screwed. Unfortunately I don't think there is much you can do at this point but continue to do what you can as you have been. Your other option is a showdown with the niece and a contest of the POA but you should legal advice if you go down that road. Perhaps niece has ulterior motives for her sudden interest in her uncle, perhaps she is just misguided. A lawyer would be able to tell you if you have a valid case to win control over your BIL's care, but be prepared for a fight on this.
Best of luck, and God Bless you for being such a caring sister in law.

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score 0 · Answer 6

It has to be agonizing to watch your 11 years of very attentive caregiving be totally disregarded and undone. Contact an elder law attorney. If the POA is valid then you really don't have any say in his care, however dedicated you have been. You'll need to be specific about "we were forced to do it". Different states have different requirements for POAs to be valid--two witnesses? A notary? The elder law attorney would know about this. If at this point the POA is not valid, then a guardianship would be in order since he is not of sound mind. I suspect you would end up in a hornet's nest with the sister and niece over this but the attorney can give you guidance on this. Being Representative Payee with Social Security is totally disconnected from POA and doesn't have any affect on patient care or financial decisions (banking, insurance, selling car, etc) other than providing a trustworthy person to handle his Social Security. Social Security does not honor POA. It sounds like it is really a good thing you are his payee. Who knows what sister and niece would do. This is a really hard lesson in getting POA early in the process of watching a loved one decline, while they could have some understanding and sign off on it. It would have been wonderful with you as the POA.

You're not the bad guy here. They are! You don't say how they are treating you, but because they are excising terrible judgement, doing what they want and totally disregarding the doctor ordered medical care he needs. It has to be very hurtful to watch this unfold. POA can be a way to provide the best care for a loved one, or to use as a power tool. Unfortunately with them it's the latter and you may have to relinquish your role.

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score 2 · Answer 7

Why are you taking care of someone you don't have any control over? Why are you signing paperwork? You should have said no. How did they force you? Sounds completely ILLEGAL. He has dementia. Why after 11 years are they so concerned? Did they think they could get money out of his estate? Or he's about to pass, so now is a good time to get it?
You need a lawyer. Sounds like the sister and niece just figured this out. Why did they let you take care of him all those years, then suddenly want to control things?
You need a lawyer ASAP. They probably couldn't get a notary bc they wouldn't make it legal. You can prove he's got dementia. If they try anything, remind the hospital they are not legal papers.
You needd a lawyer.
The whole situation is strange.
In the meantime let them talk. He doesn't have a car. So he won't drive. Don't pay for insurance. Don't pay for anything. Stop if you are. I mean your money. Don't let them bulldoze you into signing anything else.
Just get a lawyer ASAP.

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score 1 · Answer 8

You've been the SS payee for your BIL for eleven years now. How did that come about? You would not have legally been able to administer his SS money unless you have a legal POA papers because the SS Administration will not put someone as payee for another person without it.
Take whatever paperwork you have concerning your BIL down to the probate court in the town he lives in. Then explain this weird situation with the niece and sister. They will help you.
It may be that your BIL only chose you for making his financial decisions but wants others to make his health decisions. Carefully look over your paperwork and visit the probate court.

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When I applied to Social Security to become my brother's representative payee that stated that they do not honor POA, verbally and on the website. They wanted a letter of request from me and a letter from the doctor stating the diagnoses and why the person can no longer manage their affairs.

(1)

score 1 · Answer 9

Where does your bil live -- his own home, apartment, condo? Does he live by himself? Does he have caregivers? Is this your husband's brother?

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score 1 · Answer 10

If you can get ahold of the POA, and see no notary there, then get a lawyer and seek advice.

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score 3 · Answer 11

Get a lawyer, like yesterday.

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score 0 · Answer 12

If your brother in law has dementia and he can no longer make decisions, he can no longer sign legal papers. Ideally he would have set up powers of attorney for medical and financial matters. POA for financial matters would help you with getting the car registered and taking over the car. You may have to seek guardianship, if you want to take over his care and financial matters. You will need an attorney to help you with this. You would have to make the case that you are better able to do this than his sister and niece. It could get ugly.

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score 1 · Answer 13

Please talk to a lawyer near you that specializes in elder law. It seems the niece puts your BIL into risky situations.

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score 3 · Answer 14

First, I would see an elder care attorney. I would think there could be some issues with the POA. But even if there is, you may still have an issue because, I would think, his sister and niece would likely have more authority than you because they are related to him. However, that would be a decision for a judge. That’s why you should see an elder care attorney, if you have the funds to do so.
You are showing great love and concern for your BIL. That is admirable. But you may need to wash your hands of his care.
I don’t wish to be a wet cloth on the fire you need to express. You’re doing a great job.
Do what you can legally and then move on.

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You are not the first one to tell me that and I am listening that is why I do what I can and step back.

(1)

score 0 · Answer 15

Babs, I am confused. How is she feeding him if she is never there?

Is he reasonably able to execute a new DMCPOA?

You are not a bad guy in the least, I think you have been an amazing SIL and obviously have his best interest at heart.

I am wondering if it is safe for him to live alone though.

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There are ring cameras in his apartment that his niece put in where we can watch him. She shows up at odd times bringing him food like hot pockets which with his diabetes he can only eat one but he likes to eat 2 up to 4 of them at one time and tells me we have to keep him happy and comfortable. He hates Power of Attorney documents he was in the hospital after his appendix abscessed when they got the POA for medical when covid was here so that only one person could go in at a time so I am questioning the POA for medical because the notary wasn't there at all. He was under medications for pain and his dementia was flaring because he was pulling his IV's out every time they put them in.

And at this time I know he doesn't remember doing a POA for medical if you ask him he will tell you he didn't.

(0)

score 8 · Answer 16

POAs in my opinion need to be written up by a lawyer. Then there is no question of its legality. You did not have to sign it as witnesses and there should have been a notary there. If he had a formal diagnosis of dementia before and he did not understand what he was signing, it really null and void.

Its his sister and niece so I think they would win out in any court. You may just have to turn him over to their care. I personally would not care for someone if I did not have both financial and medical POAs. No control, no care.

Helpful Answer (8)

I have control over his social security because of dementia I am his representative payee for it have been for 3 yrs now. There was no notary there when we signed. As one other said she would have found someone else to sign it. I will be seeking a lawyer to find out some information on a different matter that they want him to sign and will ask him about the POA too.

(3)

score 2 · Answer 17

No, you're not the bad guy here. You've expended a lot in heart and hands for BIL; your distress reflects your care. Feel free to come here to vent any time. Commiserations and suggestions a plenty : )

Notarizing an unwitnessed document appears to be legal as long as the signee(s) are present. smh As Geaton777 noted though, a person with dementia cannot give POA. Who's taking care of BIL's finances?

At the least, taking your concerns to BIL's local aging protective services of an elder being endangered by niece's disregard for his health and doctor's orders may help.

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I have his social security because of dementia now for 3 yrs. His pension is his and he won't do a POA for financial on that. He has been diagnosed with dementia now for 5 yrs. His neurologist saw what was coming and asked if he was handling his finances I said no that is when I became his representative payee for social security.

(0)

score 3 · Answer 18

"We were forced to do it."

How were you forced? Can you please explain the circumstances? The law does not count "ignorance" of the law as a defense.

If your BIL already had a diagnosis of dementia in his medical records prior to him "signing" the PoA, I'd say you have a legal case.

If you hadn't signed as a witness for the PoA it is very possible the niece would have found someone else to be the witness. In my state family is not allowed to "witness" the PoA signing, not sure in your state.

You can choose to contest the PoA -- but if you succeed and are not willing/able to his caregiver/advocate, then who would? He would probably become a ward of the county, which may not be the worst outcome.

If she switched him to another clinic it may be for convenience, as caregiving needs to also work for the caregiver since it is a lot of work.

I'm sorry for the distress this is causing you, and for the rift it's creating in your family. You made an innocent mistake by witnessing the signing under pressure but even if you hadn't, she may still have gotten the PoA paperwork "completed". She may have thought she was doing a "good thing", albeit not legally, so that your BIL wouldn't become a ward of the state and then all family lose control over his care decisions and management.

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score 0 · Answer 19

Is the niece the boots on the ground, live in caregiver?

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No she doesn't live with him. All she does is call him to take his meds but doesn't know what he takes for meds. The doctor's appt she had to put me on speaker phone to give a list of medications and dosages and when he takes them and I named all meds with dosages. Has cameras in his apartment but doesn't watch the cameras she relies on everyone else.

(0)

Can someone help me?

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