Should I tell my mother's doctor(s) that she is lying to them?

My mom busted out of a skilled nursing facility earlier this year, many readers on here will remember that, and it was not in her best interest. I told her, "ok, you're going to have to have visits via video chat with your doctor every week because someone needs to check on you." She agreed to that.

Fortunately my mom is ok with me being in on doctor appointments to be able to adequately describe what is going on. We now know she has vascular dementia but for the most part is pretty 'there' most of the time.

So you can imagine how it went when she started answering questions.
"I feel great!" After she had injured herself from a fall.
"No I'm eating well," when she refused all food from me.
"Yes I'm up and walking." Bedridden as all get out.
"Oh I have someone here all the time. Day and night." Hadn't hired a caregiver yet.

I finally snapped and said "None of what she is telling you is true," and I got that "shushing" motion from her as if I were 5 years old. I laid out every lie she told.
What did the doctor say?
"Yes Maddy, I can tell." Mom was madder than a wet hen. I literally looked at her and said, "You can get as mad as you want," and shrugged my shoulders at her.

It hasn't forced her into anything such as going back to skilled nursing, nor has it had her admitted back into the hospital because her stories weren't adding up, but it gave her pause when she was "tattled on." She was/is doing it because I overheard her say, "I'm going to say anything I need to to keep from going back to the skilled nursing place." It was a lovely place that took good care of her, but didn't fawn all over her or jump at a finger snap with her requests, so naturally it was a prison.

I told her if she keeps lying, the truth will out her, and I'm trying to keep that from happening in the most disastrous way. If, of course, that's possible.

If you have a POA, you can slip the doctor a note and he will use it to ask questions during a visit. If she's depressed, she may just need an SSRI and a doctor can prescribe something for it. It helped my dad's anxiety tremendously. When a person is depressed, either they move inward, or can't stop talking about things. All said, I will tell you that doctors are pretty familiar with folks that have clean tests and still complain. :)

If she’s anorexic it’s not factitious. A lot of the behaviour you have listed is common in anorexics. It’s a serious mental illness and an insidious one.

Beachy1004: There is a high probability, even if your mother 'doctor shops,' that her supposed 'ailments' are already suspect by her physicians. Truly the only specialist she requires is one to manage her depression. I have witnessed individuals who swear to having an horrific disease, only to be sent out of their doctor's office with a clean bill of health.

Very close family member was seeing a professional for a mental health concern. I noticed a behavioral change in family member and was alarmed. It was not extreme such as homicide/suicide, but rather it was erratic/inconsistent/out-of-character behavior and I worried he would do something impulsively that could have long lasting effects for him. I emailed the doc. He emailed me back and was nasty that he will not talk to me, etc.

OK. I was not asking him to talk to me as he had no permission to do so. I was attempting to inform HIM of a behavioural change in his mental health patient before something happened that would be hard to undo. Patient wasn't doing anything that would make him a 5150 if I called the cops. Taking him to the ER wouldn't have gotten me anything either. It was ME who noticed the change and I felt it was significant to let SOMEONE know rather than do nothing. I would assume that a mental health professional has a protocol for something like this, but apparently they don't (or at least this guy didn't).

On top of giving me attitude about reaching out, he then CALLED the patient and informed him that I was trying to step in and advised patient of what I'd said. So, next call I got was from patient berating me for "interfering" with his doctor relationship. About a week later, patient told me he "finally got it all straightened out" regarding what I'd disclosed to the doctor. Translation of that is that patient lied over and above the TRUTH that I'd told so that he can continue to manipulate doctor. I was angry and a little disturbed by this whole thing, but I stand behind what I did.

I say give the doctor any info you feel he/she needs. Just be sure enough about what you're doing and know that it all could blow up as it did for me.

Good news in my situation was that the odd behaviour DID stop. Interesting.

My mom 'dr hopped' a bit, to get shots for her 'migraines'. She'd get stressed out over whatever was going on and suddenly we were being called by dad (who could no longer drive) to come take mom to the ER for a Demerol shot. It was annoying as heck and she would act just FINE when you got to the house to pick her up. Actually, in several instances, downright chatty and perfectly fine until we hit the ER and then she was moaning and carrying on. All us kids knew this was the manipulative behavior she always exhibited to get her way--dad never caught on.

Finally, her PCP retired and she has not been able to find another Dr so easily swayed.

I personally never had ANY problem with the ER docs asking me to talk to them out in the hall about her antics, and I KNOW I wasn't on her HIIPPA form.

I don't think that a lot of docs really look at that and 'obey'. I take a friend in to the local VA sometimes and she WANTS me to come in with her. Obviously I am not on HER list of people who can have access to her care--so, IDK, it's sort of a personal thing for the Drs. Patients don't tell the real truth in a lot of instances, esp with regards to things like falls.

I took my FIL to the dermatologist the day after he got out of the hospital after a 2 week stay. Doc asks if he's been hospitalized recently and dad says "No". Doc says "You were here in the hospital YESTERDAY" and dad replies, well that was YESTERDAY, I'm not in NOW." Again, I wasn't on dad's HIPPA form, but the doc still addressed all info to me.

As someone who has had to move twice without having any say in the move, the location, or even the house (corporate relocations), I empathize with your mother. Moving is traumatic, especially if you don't want to do it, and I can tell you that it took me four years to start calling my last house "home," and I've yet to do it after 10 years in my current house. At long last my husband has retired, and we're getting out of here as soon as possible. For the first time in my 33-year marriage, I get a say in where we live.

I was plunged into a deep depression when we did our first move, because we moved from California to Colorado where the natives make good and sure you know how much they hate Californians. I didn't think the culture would be that different, but boy, was I wrong. I ended up in therapy and eventually was pretty content there.
We were there 13 years before being sent back to California, and now I live in a neighborhood where no one knows each other.

Trust me, it's really really hard. Don't discount your mother's ailments. I guarantee you she's depressed, and the anorexia is her trying to be in control of SOMETHING in her life. She needs therapy and possibly medications, but to say she's lying is cold-hearted.

Help your dad get her to the correct doctors. Write her current doctor a note telling him that she's recently moved, is possibly depressed and feeling out of control. Leave out the "lying" part, because that's dismissive of what are very real issues to her. The doctor can't reply to you because of HIIPA rules, but at least he'll be up to speed on what might be behind her symptoms.

I would be very willing to bet that your Mom's doctor is on to her. If he isn't, I think, at 72, your Mom has a right to privacy with her own MDs and the right to manage her own life, medical and otherwise as she choose. Just my opinion as an RN, and trust me, as an RN I have seen many patients like your Mom, and the doctor's notes almost always indicate these underlying issues. When all the tests are done, and there is a multitude of complaints, this gets picked up quite quickly.
I would discuss this with Mom, but especially the depression component. I would suggest she herself seek the help of her MD and that she discuss possible needs for therapy or to try a mild anti-depressant to see if it might help her.
After that, try not to pick up her luggage. By that I mean, such patients often tak long and long with friends and family when they are in this space. The friends listen and say something to the effect "Oh, Irma. I am so sorry. Have you tried this concoction or that. Did you tell your doctor? I hope you feel better" whereas family picks all that baggage up and hauls it, feeling responsible to "fix it all".
When your Mom is elderly, and you are her POA, you will have access to her MD and you can inform the MD that your Mom has a bit of a history of this. However, for now she is ONLY 72; in our times young (I say this relatively, of course, as I myself am 80). And I can tell you that, at 80, I would be very resentful of any daughter of mine that went to my doctors without telling me. So just my opinion for you to weigh, and I wish you the very best no matter what decision you feel you must make for yourself.

Hi Beachy.

I have dealt with this sort of problem with my mother since I was a little kid.
I don't know if you've ever seen an episode of the 1970's sitcom 'Sanford and Son' where the father Fred Sanford would start grabbing his chest with a "heart attack" any time anyone called him on something. This is my mother.
Since I basically drew the short straw with the brown end in my family I've been her caregiver for years (which I'll be walking away from soon) so I have to accompany her to her doctor's appointments. I really lay it on the doctor and right in front of her. I tell him that she's dying and gasping for breath and has every devastating illness that modern medicine has a name for. Having an illness as yet unheard of and getting it named after her is I think her dream in life. See, when she gets in the doctor's office, she's fine. She plays the "being old" bit a little. Going on progress to visit her doctor collection is entertainment for my mother. She's done it for years and years. Only now we're honest with the doctors when she goes because she knows I will call her out on her BS. When she wants to entertain she tries to find someone else to take her to an appointment. Good luck with that I tell her.
If you and your sisters get no say in any of it, then I'm assuming your father takes her to all the uneccesary, ridiculus doctor's appointments. He needs to start calling her out on her bullsh*t in front of her to her doctors.
If there's nothing wrong with her physically, then her problems are mental. The "white elephant" in the room has to be addressed or this nonsense of running from doctor to doctor will only get worse.
Your mom needs mental health services to help her work through the eating disorders and hypochondria. These are real disorders and people who have them need mental health professionals to help them cope.
The first thing your father needs to start doing is refuse to go along with all her doctors appointments and stop giving her attention when she starts up with all of her imaginary illnesses. He's not doing her any favors enabling her behavior and has to stop.
Yes, I do think you should speak to her doctors and let them know that she's lying and is a hypochondriac with anorexia. Tell them to please not tell her that you called. They won't tell her. They might have a word with your father though. They will tell him exactly what I'm telling you. That her problems are mental and she needs mental health services.

Yes, had similar issues. I wondered why & came up with a mixture of these.

Truth varies: their version of the truth differed from mine. Eg Q are you eating well? A yes.

*Well* to me is;
- not fast food & instant meals
- not skipping meals or extreme diets
But to them it was 'well'.

Safety: the person does not feel safe enough to disclose what's really going on. Have embarrassment about discussing mental health.

Insight: the person lacks insight into their own behaviour. What they doing.

I think you could write to the Doctor if you feel strongly to. It possibly may instigate the Doctor asking more questions surrounding diet & mood. But someone has to be willing to discuss & seek treatment. If your Mother answers it's fine, it's all fine, then there is not a lot the Doctor can do.

IMHO anorexia can be a stress response. When life is stressful with many things outside their control, causing worry/anxiety, food intake is something WITHIN their control.

The recent move could well be the trigger. Moving is a very stressful time.

'Adjustment disorder' is a label I've heard;
"An adjustment disorder is an emotional or behavioral reaction to a stressful event or change in a person's life".

Usually by about 6 months, emotional adjustment takes place - that's what I was told.

Would your Mother be open to getting some counselling?

I found that really helped me. I have much less reservations about seeking that out for other future stressful times.

Yes. I wondered why & came up with a mixture of these.

Truth varies: their version of the truth differed from mine. Eg Q are you eating well? A yes.

*Well* to me is;
- not fast food & instant meals
- not skipping meals or extreme diets

Safety: the person does not feel safe enough to disclose what's really going on. Have embarrassment about discussing mental health.

Insight: the person lacks insight into their own behaviour

I think you could write to the Doctor if you feel strongly to. It possibly may instigate the Doctor asking more questions surrounding diet & mood. But someone has to be willing to discuss & seek treatment. If your Mother answers it's fine, it's all fine, then there is not a lot the Doctor can do.

Imho anorexia can be a stress response. When life is stressful with many things outside their control, causing worry/anxiety, food intake is something WITHIN their control.

The recent move could well be the trigger. Moving is a very stressful time.

'Adjustment disorder' is a label I've heard;
"An adjustment disorder is an emotional or behavioral reaction to a stressful event or change in a person's life".

Usually the adjustment settles by 6 months - that's what I was told.

Would your Mother be open to getting some counselling?
I found that really helped me. I have much less reservations about seeking that out for other future stressful times.

I'd go back home and leave your parents to straighten out their own lives. The doctors will realize, in short order, there's nothing much wrong with your fairly young mother other than depression, especially if s/he has access to her old medical records. Hypochondriacs stick out like sore thumbs to doctors. In the meantime if the two of them want to spend their time going back and forth to doctors appointments in their new place of residence, that's their prerogative.

I remember when I had to move my parents from FL to CO to be close to me after dad had to stop driving. Mom worked herself up into SUCH a frenzy that she caused herself 2 hospital stays with ulcerative colitis, then a DVT in her leg, then depression, then pulmonary emboli. It was the worst bunch of months of my life. She was on the operating table at midnight on Christmas Eve having an IVF filter put into her to prevent blood clots from killing her. And still managed to get the PEs the following month. And she was hysterical the entire time which just exacerbated an already stressful situation. I'm surprised my father didn't die of heart failure throughout the ordeal. She too stopped eating when the depression set in. So I made yet another phone call to the doctor to inform him of her state of mind bc she NEVER would've admitted it in a million years. I had POA though. The doc put her on Wellbutrin which helped a lot.

I know how hard all this truly is. But if dad is good with schlepping her around, and you don't have POA, I'm not sure what you can do except call her doctor ahead of time.

Good luck.

A competent doctor will be able to detect discrepancies between the patient's complaints and actual physical and laboratory findings.

If she is anorexic/ depressed there could be all kinds of symptoms. Doctors based on knowledge and tests can establish or distinguish facts/hypochondria

As you are family, you may be able to discuss privately with MD / staff, or contribute during the appointment / conversation. As a care provider accompanying a client into an appt room, I was amazed that MD would listen to client and NOT question her responses (i.e., for instance pertaining to alcohol consumption [she is an alcoholic] to exercise (due to knee replacement). I sat there in disbelief. Whether it be from the stroke, dementia, or ego in how my client responded to MD questions, it seems to me that accurate information should be recorded in the patient's records. As a care provider, I had to be careful if and when I intervened to avoid my client being defensive, if not angry at me (for telling the truth or in her eyes, me interfering). I do not understand why you "DO NOT HAVE ANY SAY IN THIS MATTER" although if I were you, I would do what I could to both get on her medical records as family/person medical staff could talk to AND call MD. I would override your dad as he doesn't seem to understand and likely IN DENIAL. It sounds important enough for you to reach out to us for you to take further steps.

You could send a note either a letter or if they have a Portal that is set up you could do it that way.
BUT
Do not expect a reply if you are not listed on HIPAA forms.
Other than that the only suggestion is
Back off.
If they are both cognizant then they can make decisions they want.
Even if your mom would not be considered cognizant her husband is the one that makes medical decisions for her.
About all you can do is the Waiting game.
You wait until something happens that will require medical intervention.
You could, if you wanted to alienate your parents report self abuse to APS (starving oneself would be self abuse) But I doubt anything would come of it.