So I created a post several years ago, and wanted to look for help based on the current situation. My father-in-law had a debilitating stroke a few years ago. He can't walk on his own, barely talks and has a feeding tube for nutrition. He has been in a nursing home the past few years, and recently he ended up in the hospital with a UTI. My wife now wants him out of this nursing home, and wants to move him into our home to take care of him. Here are a couple things to keep in mind.
Our house is not wheelchair accessible, bathrooms/hallways are a bit tight.
We have 2 small children that live in the house, she wants to put them into one room so he can have his own room. Or put him into the oldest one's room, he's not pleased with that idea as you can imagine.
No one in his family cares much about him, including his estranged wife and 3 other kids. He has a sister who wishes he was dead. My wife is the only one who wants to take care of him.
My wife is a nurse, and she is under the impression that she'll be able to handle his care 24-7. I know it's going to take 2 people to get him to the bathroom or to change his diaper.
He has no income besides Medicare, about $800 a month, and the nursing home has been using that for the past few years.
Now I've expressed my opinion on the situation, but I don't think she is taking anyone else into consideration. She has already closed his account at the nursing home, and he will soon be release from the hospital. I'm pretty sure she is just going to bring him home. She does not discuss any details with me. I told her that this decision could possibly break apart our family, and she is willing to go that route, BUT we are living on a combined income so I don't see how she would be able to do it on her own, much less with both of us on board. Me personally, I think he has had no quality of life in the past few years. No one has gone to visit him, including my wife. I don't see any way for his condition to improve as it has gotten much worse over the past year. If it was my father, I would have a talk with the immediate family about removing the feeding tube and let him pass. I know that is a hard decision, but lying in bed all day and not seeing anyone ever is awful. I've asked other family members on her side if they would be able to take him in, and of course no one will, they all have excuses. I've asked if they would like to move him to a different facility in their area/states, where he can be closer to them, and no one has stepped up. The facility he was at was a good hour or so from us, it was the closest one available.
Does anyone have any knowledge of what Medicare/Medicaid would cover for caregiving at home? What I saw was 35 hours a week, but not for long term. My wife said that she could be his caregiver, and they would pay her X amount of money, but I didn't hear any other details with that option so I don't know if we could afford that route. My wife would have to quit her current job, so we would be losing half of our income, and with the way everything is costing right now, we can't afford to do that. So I guess, my question is a couple parts. 1, how do I convince her that this isn't an option? Even if money wasn't an issue, I honestly don't think she could handle it. She brought him home for a holiday last year, took care of him for 2 days. After the 2nd day she had to take 2 days off of work because of the exhaustion. 2nd question, does anyone have any real life experience dealing with Medicare/Medicaid for home health care, at home care giving, so I have those facts ready when I try to have a discussion with her? Also note, this has been a very hostile topic, and has caused some knock down drag out fights, some occurring in front of our youngest child. I have told her numerous times, that I do not want this to cause these fights in front of the kids as it's harming them mentally. We've had some issues now with our youngest at school. Please help!
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The big difference between a *trial of care* & the *real deal* is the other life responsibilities: especially children! Their needs, meals, driving here & there, homework support, activities, household cleaning/cooking/laundry.
In 2 days it is still possible to be deep in denial about how much time & effort will be needed.
And how does she think she will feel when he dies in your home because she couldn't keep up with his needs? Someone else mentioned this....how do you think a kid is going to react to moving back into a room where someone died?
People get sick or old and they die. As sad as it is, there is no getting around that. Blowing up your life to give someone an extra few weeks/months of living 'miserably' does not seem worth it.
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The very obvious (to all of us, and you) is that this idea, while kind hearted, is a hard no.
Why at this point in dad's life is she feeling the need to intervene in such a dramatic fashion? Suddenly realizing that her dad is not going to live forever? Guilt over not being around him a lot?
If you are fighting over this NOW, then it isn't going to get better. But you know that.
My DH wanted to bring his dad to our house. I firmly said "no" over and over. Finally I said HE could bring dad to live in our house but my 2 youngest daughters and I would not live there. It got that nasty before he realized I was right---but when he talks of it now (almost 19 years ago!) he still paints me as the 'bad guy' who wouldn't take in his father. Still.
We should have had couples counseling about it so that 100% of the blame didn't fall on me, but it was what it was.
Barb had the best answer. Let your wife care for him in his NH for 2 straight days and see how she feels.
I heard someone recently referring to the same deal.
He had wanted to move his Mother in, spouse said no & copped the blame.
These folk need to OWN their behaviour, of ignoring & stomping all over their spouse's "NO". For wanting their spouse to OBEY them & also for continuing to blame.
Their own behaviour is indeed shameful!
On your ? Re:Medicaid paying. Hang with me on this…. Medicaid is a huge set of programs, from Happy Teeth Vans for kids to LTC in a SNF / skilled nursing facility. Each State determines what Medicaid program they will do but under federal guidelines. E.g. most States Medicaid do not ever pay for AL. For IHHS aka inhome health those can pay a family member as a caregiver - if your State does this program - but it’s at slightly above states minimum wage, like $10 hr in $7.50 min wage state. # of hours interdependent on FILs needs assessment. HOWEVER if his assessment goes over 32 or so hrs per week, most IHHS will not pay for inhome as care plan is too involved, too rigorous and needs 24/7 oversight which means in a facility. State (unless in NY or AK) are not going to pay for 24/7 inhome. Assessment team can look at his old NH chart along with recent hospitalization and if it seems he’s way way beyond what avg inhome can reasonably do, he will be over the hours max. The assessment will be he needs to move out of home and go back into a 24/7 facility.
Which if that happens, snowballs probably to the need to do a fresh application for LTC Medicaid as he has exited the NH & moved into a home. (It sounds like he was on LTC Medicaid to pay his NH bill - the $800 SS went to NH - so I’m assuming he was on LTC Medicaid LTC). If y’all’s State wants a new LTC application done, that means all new paperwork on him with its 3-5 yr financial look back, which falls on his POA to do. If Wf has not kept up with her dads banking, SSA annual payment notices, his life or burial insurance policies, etc having to get all this together in very short order to do a fresh LTC Application plus managing FIL care and marriage / house / kids will be beyond challenging. If her LC flairs up, who’s picking up the slack?
That you can do the majority of kiddos and your family’s household stuff and still work is amazing. But it can only go on for so long. If FIL moves in, kids will be secondary to her dad. Your somewhere on page 3 of her list. Resentment all around. Kids too young to express their concerns but it will effect them. Living with someone incontinent, with feeding tubes, smelly, frail, bedfast does not lend itself to happy childhood drawings. Forget any play dates or sleepovers happening. Health & welfare of y’all’s children should be her first priority. If she cannot do this, I think you should look into divorce with full custody; & get a good divorce attorney, no “mediation” bs. I’m guessing you were too nice last divorce….. get a pit bullie divorce atty this time. Good luck.
I setup some online counseling. I’ll probably start that this week. I signed up for the both of us, but I may have the first meeting by myself. I thought for a bit that this would help change her mind, but honestly I don’t think anything is going to change her mind at this point. She let it slip that FIL is being discharged from the hospital to the short term nursing home in about 5 days. I’m not sure how long he’ll be at the short term NH, but I believe it’s 30 days. Honestly, I’m so burned out just thinking about all of this it’s really exhausting. I’m seeing no plans being made with her or her family..so that just leaves one option and that’s her bringing him into our home. While I’m afraid of having yet another fight over the issue, I am going to bring it up this week and start with a discussion and then go from there. Thanks again to everyone who gave advice, I’ve read everyone’s posts and they have all helped out in one way or another. I’ll try to post another update before the weekend.
How about taking the rest of the family and go on vacation the first full week she brings him home? I’m not kidding. Take the kids and go stay at someone’s house some friends house. Let her feel the reality of the full brunt of caring for him alone at home. Also leave her a piece of paper that outlines the loss of income and how you will cut your living style in half to accommodate this.
i don’t know, I said it was a crazy idea.
I went on a deployment one time and when calling home they acted like they could care less so I stopped. It took about 10 days for them to “miss me” and show proper appreciation.
Gee, maybe stay away until she cries “uncle!”
hang in there, big hugs, and good luck to you.
This makes her see what she is asking and doing. It, also, serves as a legal document in the event you end up in divorce court you aren't paying her spousal support. Because she will obviously do whatever it takes to get her own way and she will cry she can't work and you must help her. I have seen tactics like this from women that were setting their husbands up to get fleeced in divorce, so cover you and your children's back on this.
I would encourage you to have the two little ones share a room and give the teenager his own room. Being a teenager is hard enough without living in a room with a dying person. If anyone should share a room with grandpa it is your wife. No comprise on that one, even if you have to share a room with the little one's, the 14 yo freshman gets his own space.
Honestly, I would never marry a person that would put their own children in this kind of situation. Her actions are reprehensible towards her 14 year old, what picking a deadbeat dad wasn't enough punishment, now he gets booted to said deadbeat because she has guilt. Has she always had self-centered characteristics?
I am totally serious in protecting you and you children for divorce. May you never need it but, if you do, you will be ever so thankful to have it. Pictures are good too. We always say, documentation is salvation in court! Then we do everything in our power to avoid the courtroom, all while documenting everything.
Prayers sent for your family and yourself. This must feel like a lead balloon in your head and heart and on your children. May she see the light before she does irreparable damage to all.
When a person is incontinent UTIs can happen.
The only solution is to tell her fkat out that he cannot live in the house with whatever consequences you want to give if she does it anyway.
Sorry about your situation. It sucks. And your wife sounds like she has mental issues. I mean knock down drag out fights over this. What the hell is wrong with her? I wonder if you look at other aspects of your relationship you may realize that she is not that great of a person over all.
The UTI was nothing major, and he has only had 2 hospital trips in the past 3 years from the NH, so I don't see any issue with them. I remember my mom dealing with my grandmother when she was in and out of the hospital every week just being in assisted living.
I think we all sort of have some mental issues, some more than others for sure. I do think this is caused from her upbringing. That would take a while to explain, but it wasn't a good one, and her dad fought to have his kids in his life. Now whether he did that to get back at his ex wife, or truly loved his kids, I don't know.
You say, "please help!" How so? You won't move out, you tried that with the ex and it turned out to be a bad idea. Your wife has already checked her father out of the NH, so what are your options?
I'll wish you good luck and most of all Godspeed dealing with the hell that's about to break loose here, thanks to your wife who's refusing to take anyone or anything into consideration here but herself. I'm sorry for your kids, most of all. I think you should speak to an attorney about what
to do here, personally. Hopefully he'll have some guidance and suggestions for you that prove useful.
First off, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone who has posted, whether it's advice or criticism or just well wishes, I truly appreciate. It has helped me tremendously with dealing with this situation. So thank you!
Next, I have my first online counseling appointment today. I think this was really needed for myself, as I've been experiencing quite a bit of anxiety and depression from this. I would like to get my wife involved, and possibly the kids, but I felt that this was the first step.
This is a busy time of year for us, with 4 kids all in different grades and schools, you can only imagine how much stuff is going on. Homecoming, plays, school projects, after school activities...you name it, there is always something going on. Even though we only have 2 of the kids living with us, I'm involved with my other two as much as I can be. I am the one who does the school projects, transportation to and from school, etc...so if I'm not working, I'm doing what a dad is supposed to do.
Update on my wife, and this is sort of a big one. So her work is understaffed like a lot of places are now a days. Well, they have been working her about 7 days in a row, with maybe a day or two off after. She ended up getting completely exhausted, got sick and ended up going to the Dr. where she was treated and is now feeling better. Down side to this is, she has missed work, and is now behind on her charting. So then her work grounds here, so she can catch up on the charting. This impacts us financially as he paycheck will probably less than half of what it normally is. I can't get frustrated with her, as I witnessed how much she had to work, and I wasn't surprised when she got sick. Her work HAS hired on some new nurses to help with the load, and has promised that they won't load up my wife as much as they have (they can't really). Now, there is a small part of my brain that thinks the timing of all of this could be intentional. Meaning, is my wife not catching up in a quick manner, attempting to get fired? Making it where she is at home, and available to take care of her Dad? Not a good option, considering we rely on her income, and if she thinks that Medicare/Medicaid is going to pay her to take care of him, she is wrong. We've all agreed on that on this forum.
So if I was to guess, I'd say FIL has about 2-3 weeks left at short term NH before he gets discharged. My goal is to get some help through therapy and then involve my wife so that everything is out on the table, open communication, full transparency. I'm hoping that the therapist that I was assigned can understand this situation and has some help for the both of us. What I want to avoid, is having my wife think that I am just trying to have this counselor change her mind, or feel like we are ganging up on her. I honestly don't think that anyone is going to be able to convince her, and that the only way she is going to realize that this is going to work is to actually live it out. And while my main concern is the kids, I've talked to them and have been prepping them for this scenario, and I know they won't have to go through much of it as it will fail quickly. I know there will be resentment for her making this decision without considering myself or the kids, and that will need to be addressed as well. I ultimately want to work together to work through this, as I know it's a tough situation, but I'm confident we can get by it. I really wish I had the support of her own family, I'm really disappointed in the fact that they aren't disagreeing with her decision, and I don't know if I'll be able to respect them in the future because of it. Well, I think that's it for now..I'm running out of characters, and it's time to get to work. Thanks again everyone, I promise to keep you all updated.