Struggling with my mother who has narcissistic personality disorder and dementia and my father with advancing Parkinson’s disease. Any advice?

I am walking the same path. I have a NPD mother who is 85 yrs old. My father just recently passed, he had a heard issue and parkinsons. He was her dedicated servant and driver. Her medical conditions always took priority, When he declined, he was placed in rehab nursing home, but she couldn't stand that he was getting care and made him leave the homes, 3 or 4 times. Hospital had offered to give him physical therapy at home and they refused. Hospital offered a day nurse, they refused. He was driving and he had a suspended license from not paying his car insurance and registration. Someone called DMV and APS came a knocking. They refused to let them in and take any offer of help. So APS wrote it off. When he was at the end, I went every other day to see him and she wouldn't go for some excuse or the other. Now he's gone. There were no prepaid funeral arrangements, he hadn't pay utility bills, they had blown through most of their money. Taxes were not paid for 2 years. I cleaned it all up and paid for the funeral with my brother. I took over the bank account and started getting her back on track and then she wanted to take over. She is not computer literate, so she calls me all the time to find out stuff. Yet she will not give me the password for the account. There are all sorts of bells and whistles going off, yet she digs in. Dangling the power of attorney like a carrot over my head...only to say she is not ready yet. She has severe COPD and lives on an O2 tank as well as too weak to walk far. I am at my end... I find I have to take breaks and I feel some guilt on that.

StrugglingKat: Their lives area a disaster waiting to happen. Perhaps you can speak to the local COA (Council on Aging), who should have on staff an elder case worker and a social worker. Start there to help with ramps in the home and other things. As neither one of them should be operating a motor vehicle, perhaps the DMV will have to be notified. A medical professional storming out of a room is uncalled for.

Kat, I read your post that says “I am trying to be compassionate because I know she has a personality disorder and dementia”. It can be hard to pick between a ‘personality disorder’ and an entrenched behavior pattern that has always worked and that there is no incentive to change. And dementia is easier to cope with if it is not just a bigger version of the lifetime bad behavior.

You need to behave according to your own standards, ability, tolerance and wishes. But don’t force yourself beyond that because you feel Obliged to be ‘Compassionate’. It makes you feel worse, and it doesn’t help resolve anything.

I'm sorry you're in this excruciating situation, floating miserably between desperately wanting to help, and being thwarted at every turn.

If you're anything like me, you need to have plans, checklists, etc all made and ready to act upon so you can sleep at night, thus I recommend you get all your ducks in a row now in a mega action plan with phone numbers, email addresses etc so when something happens, you are ready to act instantly without needing to take time to research anything. 

To put it another way, get yourself absolutely set and in position at the starting gate, so the second the starting pistol fires, you're ready to GO! 

Firstly, go yourself, on your own, on a fact-finding mission to an elder lawyer, tell him/her exactly what you've told us, and ask for recommendations of what must be put in place so you can help (at least) your ailing father. The lawyer will certainly recommend things like the signing by your dad of a HIPAA form allowing you to be given his health information freely (the HIPAA form need not be notarized, nor witnessed, so this is an easy thing to have your dad fill out. It's essential when your father has future health crises that your mother cannot handle - you need to have the HIPAA paper to prove you are entitled to his health info).

I'm just going to throw out some some ideas here: 

1. It sounds like you'll have to be sneaky to beat your dementia-mentally-ill mother at this game she's forcing you all to play. Does your mother ever go to the doctor? If so, it sounds like your father accompanies her since they're joined at the hip. And if that's the case, have "Power of Authority" and whatever else paperwork the attorney recommends ready to be signed and witnessed (while your mother is in the back doctor's examination room) by you and your dad. You could meet dad in the waiting room while she's in the back office. Hire a Notary to come with you (some make housecalls, so they should be able to visit a doctor's office just as well - or better yet, perhaps the doctor has a Notary on staff with whom you could arrange in advance - my mother's doctor had a nurse who was also a notary, it made things so easy for us).

2. There are so many ways you can try to sidestep your mother's interference. For example, many banks now only provide emailed electronic monthly statements, and you have to actually pay a fee to get a printed monthly statement mailed to you (at least this holds true where I live). Could you and your dad arrange to have you added to the account(s) at the same time the statements become on-line only? You could exclaim to your mother that you and dad need to go to the bank regarding printed vs on-line statements ...that's not a lie, just arrange in person to add you to the account, and default it to on-line rather than paper-copy-by-mail going forward. 

3. Then set up on-line banking, and know the password so you can keep an eye on their finances. You should probably set up two factor authentication, using your own phone or email as the secondary authentication, so your mother can't go on-line and change the password and block both your dad and you from all banking details. 

4. Could you get your father to insist upon installation of a semi-permanent ramp, and assure your mother that when the ramp is no longer needed it abe dismantled, and that it won't destroy the house's entry in any way? This is true, there are plenty of semi-permanent ramps to choose from. 

5. If your dad really wants to live with you, and your mother is opposed, make some decisions now. When mom is rushed to hospital with the inevitable big problem making it impossible for her to return home, have a list of possible facilities where you want to place her: if its near your own home, or near where she currently lives, etc... 

6. See next post

You are an angel. Hope you can get the help you need. Feel free to reach out.

God bless you! I feel your pain. Mom is a Narc as well. Same situation but dad passed in 2017. Dr can have occupational therapy to do a driving test. which has very little to do with driving as it tests reflexes...etc.

You may have to get guardianship from the court.

Definitely get APS to investigate.

Please call Adult Protective Services for guardian services and placement. It's time to sell the car; there are services that will do it for him. If he has been told not to drive, then the insurance company could refuse to compensate and accident. I believe the doctor needs to fill out a DMV form to notify the authorities. https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/your-physician-is-required-to-notify-the-dmv-if-you-have-been-diagnosed-with/

Geriatric Psychiatrist is needed to evaluate the mental and physical issues going on.

Lessons on how to use Uber and Lyft - most of us have never used these services. Perhaps an assisted living placement would offer a van service.

Hello, First of all, I’m sorry you are going through this, but glad you found this forum. I would suggest getting both a medical and financial power of attorney for yourself and if your parents have not made a will, I would suggest they do so. I would also suggest that you move your parents into assisted living. They need to sell their house to pay for assisted living. You can talk to your dad and you can arrange for a realtor to deal with you to sell their home. I did this for my parents 4 years ago. Both my parents are/were narcissists. I totally understand what you are going through with your mom. My mom was the same way and we gave into ber just to avoid the crying/screaming jags and subsequent plots to get us. My mother died-what a blessing. My dad is a covert narcissist and fortunately really has nothing wrong with him. I can’t imagine what you are dealing with with your father having Parkinson’s. I hope you can find some direction from this forum. Most of all, you will need to figure out how to take care of yourself. I wish you the best!

You don’t say how old your parents are so I’m curious. In my state, doctors do not determine driving status. What I had to do was contact the state DMV with my concerns and ask for a driver’s evaluation. She did not know WHO requested the evaluation, just that someone did. My mother had to go and show some physical and mental abilities related to driving. I was also asked questions about my perception of her abilities and safety. She did not progress to the actual driving part of the evaluation because her reasoning abilities (and ability to multi-task) were not good. She was furious with me (just the messenger) and pitched a two-year old foot stomping fit. I explained that this was not my decision, I was simply her driver for the day. I told her she could wallow in her frustration or get over it and deal, but that I could not do anything about the results of the evaluation. It took a while, but she got past it. She was 92 and probably shouldn’t have been driving for the 4-5 years before this. It was hard for me and for her, but it had to be done.

Its time to take the reigns whether your mom likes it or not...your parents would benefit greatly from Assisted Living...your mother is a danger to herself and your father and all you have to do is get the Dr to sign off...no more driving for either of them...your mom is not (obviously) thinking clearly...you have to step in before one of them gets hurt or hurts someone else...my mother also has macular degeneration/dementia and I took her keys...sometimes you have to step on toes to keep them safe...figure out a way to have a private sit down with your Dad...he'll understand your intentions...sorry for the loss of your brother...I also have no help from family to care for my mother...I drive 3 hours one way every week to stay with her and take care of things...good luck everything will work out...

The reality is your mother is killing your dad. More than likely he will die before her. When that happens do not move this woman into your home. Sorry you have to watch this train wreck and not be able to stop what is coming.

Mom is in the driver's seat. Dad has chosen the passenger seat - it's worked for them for decades.

Unless Dad decides to take the wheel (by force, trickery or is forced to eg if Mom was to be hospitalised) I cannot imagine this will change. Yet. Until something forces change.

If you cannot prevent the 'crash', I suppose be ready. Have the emergency numbers ready to call & have a rough plan sketched out.

- If either is in imminent danger, call EMS.
- If serious neglect/self-neglect is suspected, report to APS.
- Consider calling/writing to their local Doctor to raise your concerns. This may not lead anywhere, but you never know..
- Encourage Dad to speak to his Doctor alone. That this is OK & a way to help them both.

I would not get APS involved just yet. Dad needs to cancel his credit card. If he really needs one, he can get one for himself without her knowledge. If they are both on the card, he is responsible for her debt even after death. Not so if she is the only one on the card. The Doctor should notify DMV that he feels his patient should not be driving. IMO its his responsibility. She should get a letter from DMV asking that she hand in her license.

The stress of caring for Mom is not helping your Dad. Its going to get to the point he can't care for her and she will need placement. This is where APS can help him get her placed. Then he needs to see an elder lawyer to have their assets split. Her split going to her care and when gone, apply for Medicaid. He remains in the home. If he choses to sell, it needs to be at Market Value. Splitting the proceeds with Mom that goes towards her care.

I would look into some meds for Mom.

You need to get social worker involved to recommend occupational therapist to evaluate their home for safety such as ramps, railings. Your Dad would benefit from physio as there are methods to prevent falls.
That would be the first step.

When you are raised by a narcissistic/borderline mother who also abuses your father you naturally consider him to be a victim, under her control, the way you were as a child. For whatever reasons your dad chose your mom when he was an adult man, and continued to choose to stay with her every single day since then. Men leave wives and children for no discernable reason every day, but yours has chosen to stay. It's awful but it may ultimately help you when you realize he is where he chose to be.

When there's an undeniable disaster you can make the best choices available for both of them, but I wish you as much peace as you can have between now and then.

Your parents chose the disaster plan. So did mine. No one will be happy with the outcome but that is the plan that is chosen. My dad just got home from rehab and I tried to get them to get caregivers to help in the AM with stretches and exercises to strengthen the knee. They will not pay for anything. They have money but Moms in charge and won’t spend a dime. She has some sort of personality disorder. I have given up trying to figure out exactly which one. Anyway all this has been very stressful. So because I have no control over any of it i am working on just letting it all go. I help when I can (I live 4hrs away and have my own health issues) but I’m just not going to get upset about it anymore. Honestly I think the only person you can help in this scenario is yourself. Boundaries are important. When the disaster happens just do your best and deal with things as they come.

CTTN55

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I’m glad you are on a path of healing. I have always known my mother is not capable of loving me in the same way I love my children. I am trying to be compassionate because I know she has a personality disorder and dementia but it is very challenging!

The power in this lies with your father. But you’re up against a long history of him being bullied by her. Arrange a time to meet with your dad alone away from the house, don’t tell him what it’s about so he can’t tell mom. Have an honest conversation about what’s needed and ask him to make decisions on the spot. Mom can’t make reliable decisions anymore with a dementia diagnosis, even one she chooses not to believe. Ask dad to go with you to meet with an elder care attorney to get needed documents in place, he needs a will and POA for healthcare and finances. He needs to go to the bank with you and add you to his accounts, this was a huge help to me when my dad did this with me, saved me much grief years later. Ask him to let you arrange a ramp to be installed and whatever else. Discuss the driving issue. Tell him mom having a credit card needs to stop. If dad refuses to decide anything tell him you’ll not help and know you’re joining many here who are “waiting for the event” (which means an event that definitely will happened that forces change, no fun to wait for but will come one day) His refusal to do anything is when you call Adult Protective Services and report the situation. I’m sorry you’re in this place, it’s so very hard, hopefully dad will see that he can make decisions and changes in the best interests of both himself and his wife

"My mother argued with the doctor who did the MRI on her and gave her a dementia diagnosis that she CAN drive and she is FINE. The doctor ended up so frustrated with her that he stormed out of the room."

Sounds like the way my mother was. If she didn't like what a doctor said, then they were stupid!

"I have offered to have them live in an apartment attached to my house. She said she would rather die than live with me and has accused me of stealing from her."

NO. Do not do this. My mother gave a little laugh at one point and said that she could never live with me. It never came up again, although at one point the brother who did the least/visited the least told me that he thought she really DID expect me to either move in with her (most likely) or live in my house. She also thought I was trying to steal from her.