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STLonlychild Asked February 2023

Considering estrangement. Any advice?

I tend to be long winded so I will try to make this as brief as I can. My mom had to go into a NH in December due to brain injury from radiation. She can barely walk, is very weak and unable to perform ADL 's without assistance.. She was falling EVERY day at home. I'm her only child and never knew my father. She has never respected my boundaries and I'm just recently realizing I was emotionally abused by her and our relationship is enmeshed. I posted before that I lived with her until I was 35 when I got married. I only stayed because she made me feel so guilty about wanting to live on my own.
I tried valiantly to get her into assisted living but in rehab they said she was too weak for it and needed too much help. So she is in the nursing home now. I have gone to visit twice a week at least. She calls me multiple times a day. If I don't answer she calls over and over. I have never been able to set boundaries but I'm learning and I've been silencing my phone at night because she wakes me up and doesn't care, but I wake up to multiple missed calls. Today it was 13. I just talked to her a little while ago and she said I have neglected her and I don't do enough for her and the other peoples kids do more and bring them snacks and stuff. I do bring her food. I have decorated her room nicely for her. For Valentine's day I took her flowers and candy and and a nice card and a card by son made. I have a husband and son and a house and am also getting all her affairs in order like applying to medicaid and selling her house, which is a total mess.
Her brother hasn't seen her once and I said why don't you call him yelling and she said it's not his responsibility to take care of me. I lost it and said it's not mine and I have done everything I can for you. I finally just hung up because I can't talk to her and my husband routed her to voicemail.
I really don't know what to do. She thinks I'm a horrible daughter and I don't know what to do. I feel like never talking to her again because obviously she thinks so little of me anyway and I don't want her hurting my son, who I have worked REALLY hard not to treat the way she treated me.
But I know I would feel guilty because she has no one else.
I don't know what I'm asking here. Maybe just venting. I just know I'm in a no win situation.

JoAnn29 Feb 2023
Your Mother now has a Dementia. She can no longer be reasoned with. You do enough. With her broken brain she probably forgets you visit, forgets she calls. She should be depending on Staff not expecting you to be at her beck and and call but...she has Dementia. Her short-term will go if not already. She will lose her filters. Her processing and comprehending will get worse. What you need to have is tools to teach you how to deal with all of this. Realize, that a lot of people raised as you were, just walk away. That's the only way they an deal with it and be themselves. You chose to be there for her. With all her health problems I doubt that she will be here long. She cannot abide by boundaries anymore. You need to set those boundaries for yourself. If you don't want to visit everyday, don't. I see no reason not to bring her snacks, but I would only bring so much. You have to learn to let what she says roll off your back. When she says you don't do enough say "I'll will try to do better". Appease her. If not already, she is going to become like a child. You can also just ignore her. Sometimes things just flit through their minds and comes out there mouths. You don't have to answer.

Her phone, if you are the only one she calls, I may "lose" it. If you do, tell the staff so they don't go looking for it. I doubt if she is going to understand she can only call you once a day. It's probably partly anxiety on her part. Maybe she can be given something to make her sleep and something to calm her. I would block her. Then you have no idea she called. I put mine on Do Not Disturb from 11pm to 9am. I can look at the phone anytime to see if I have received a call. Maybe call Mom in the morning and then at 7pm just to check in. If she starts on you, say "just wanted to check up on you so bye till...You have to set boundries for you. She no longer can honor them.

Why did you need to take her to a Doctor? The one associated with the facility should be able to take care of most things. If a specialist, does she really need to see him/her? Maybe the facility Doctor can handle her problem with him/her consulting with the Specialist when needed. What happened to you when you took her, would not happen again with me. I would tell that Doctor she no longer can be transported outside the facility. Maybe he has a NP that can come to the facility to see her.

When you see the therapist, I think the first thing you need to learn is the tools to deal with Mom. Then try to reconcile the past. When all is said and done, you will know in your heart you did enough and you can live with that.
STLonlychild Feb 2023
Thank you so much for your reply. I met her at the doctor that day. The NH provided transportation. It was a neurologist for neurocognitive decline, all related to the radiation. We have never formally been told dementia, but I do know that's what we are dealing with. The radiation oncologist suggested we see them although I don't know if much can be done. But she was SUPPOSED to get better so it's hard to accept sometimes. I don't feel right saying it because she was completely fine until all of this happened 2 years ago, which of course I know some of that is denial. And I know she is in denial. Her cousin from California who she hasn't seen for 25 years called her today and asked for us all to come visit next year. My mom thinks she can go and I just said well, we'll see how it goes Mom. There is no way she can travel. It was hard enough just getting her to the bathroom at the neuro office that day!
In a way, I've always been her parent, because she always leaned on me emotionally and basically I was everything to her.
She really doesn't have much filter these days and is somewhat inappropriate at times even though she is technically of completely sound mind and not confused yet. I'm trying to learn to let things she says roll off my back and I have been doing better and setting boundaries. I hope therapy helps more with that.
Thank you for your great advice!
KathleenQ Feb 2023
As a therapist myself, I have had clients such as yourself struggling with guilt that has been imposed on them by narcissistic parents. It is a hard road to travel untangling yourself emotionally and getting rid of guilt which I think must have been part of your life for a long time. Just doing things physically like not visiting or not taking calls is not the enough. You might end up feeling worse. I hope you get a good therapist and take all the time needed to free yourself from the inside out. Clearly you are a good person who is being blamed for never being good enough. I get that from your efforts to do right by your own child. And you need help and time to rid yourself of the lie that you are selfish recognizing the truth of your goodness.
STLonlychild Feb 2023
Yes, unfortunately guilt has been part of my life for a long time. It is a big reason I lived with her until 35. I felt bad leaving her all alone.
I have been trying to find a therapist. The first one was by phone and told me I was lucky my mom is able to call me because hers couldn't. So that didn't work out. I'm meeting one in person next week and I hope it goes better.
I really appreciate your kind words. ❤️

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STLonlychild Feb 2023
Againx, I do take her snacks, but I probably haven't taken as many as she wants which was one of her complaints tonight. Little did she know I have a bunch in my car that I bought for her at the store Friday that I plan to take when I go tomorrow. I need to get her more things she likes.

againx100 Feb 2023
I'm glad you shut your phone off at night. Good for you! She has staff to help her if she has a true need. Don't even listen to her voice mails. Delete, delete, delete. Call her when it's good for YOU.

Since she has dementia from her treatments, etc., I don't know that I would go as far as estrangement. I would try to cut back a bit. You can NOT make her happy and you can NOT be the only person that she gets anything from. With her broken brain she will not/can not understand everything and that's OK. You just keep sticking to her boundaries - she doesn't have to understand or agree to anything. You just repeat how it's going to be and if/when she starts being mean and difficult, have a vague response ready where you tell her you need to go and will try to talk to her tomorrow and you hope she will be in a better mood.

And definitely don't take her out. That's just a recipe for disaster. You don't have to lay it all out for her as to why but just have some vague excuse or something about "we'll see, maybe next week, this week is just crazy busy for me", etc.

Is she taking advantage of the things the nursing home has to offer? If not, can you ask the staff to please take her down to entertainment, make her take her meals in the dining room, etc.? She has too much time on her hands.

Best of luck.
STLonlychild Feb 2023
Yes, I just started shutting my phone off.. That was a big step for me because I have always answered every call and it is hard not to but I know she is safe there and I have to do it for my sanity.
Her NH is great about coming to get people for activities and they offer some really good ones and I have encouraged her to participate and she actually has been which I'm happy about.
I just think she feels like she is in prison because she has to call for help to get up to the bathroom and stuff. And she doesn't have unlimited access to snacks and coffee, both of which she is a bit obsessed with. She does get both, just not enough for her. She is just so used to doing things her own way. I'm hoping some of this is just adjusting to the situatuion, but she is not someone who is good at that.
ZippyZee Feb 2023
Sounds more like liberation than estrangement.

Do it.

Beatty Feb 2023
I think you are doing really well too! Especially with your new & evolving boundaries.

Since your Mom is in staffed accommodation & staff should call you (in theory) with any emergency or major issue, hopefully you can learn to let go a little. To decide on the level of social contact (phone & in person) with your Mom that works.

There are a few other threads on that kind of pressure at the moment - I don't know if other's situation will help you or not. The crux for me is that a person has their needs for communication, social & emotional needs. Their needs are valid. But expectations of what an adult child, with their own life, can provide need to be realistic. To provide 100% is not realistic - it's bonkers. Folks with faulty thinking may lack the insight to know this.

STLonlychild Feb 2023
Thank you all for your replies. I take all of your words to heart and this forum has really helped me so much.
Alva, I am seeing a new therapist next week. I told the phone therapist it wasn't a good fit for me and am seeing someone in person next week. I'm hoping this one will be a better fit for me and can help me work through some of these issues and set better boundaries with my mom. To me, just "firing" the other therapist was a big step!
My mom did apologize tonight but it's always like this. She blows up at me and says how horrible I am then idealizes me the next day. From all I've read it's par for the course with BPD.
Somehow, despite this, I've managed to make a life and identity for myself and have some self esteem.
I love my mom and have compassion for her because I know she didn't choose to be the way she is and I forgive her for it. It's just so hard sometimes.
It is doubly hard to see her with this brain injury after seeing someone strong as an ox all my life. Despite anything I could ever say about her she was always so strong and worked hard and it is hard to see her so weak.
I've let go of a lot of the guilt of her being in the nursing home, Alva, because I know it is grief like you say. She is safe where she is and is actually making friends and the facility is taking good care of her. No place is perfect and unfortunately my mom always expects perfection but that is just her. I know she is in a good place and I take comfort in that.
I think therapy will help me. I look forward to it and wish I didn't wait until 51 to start it.
Again thank you all for being so kind and helpful.

Countrymouse Feb 2023
I know it probably doesn't feel like it, but I think you're doing really well.

You're a great daughter. You're a loved and loving wife who appreciates her husband. You're a loving and protective mother who wants her child to grow into a healthy and independent young man. You're also a self-respecting individual who knows what demands are reasonable - even if you don't always insist that the limits are respected.

Your mother isn't right in the head #1. She is harking back to the long-established pattern where you were her emotional audience until you escaped aged 35 #2. It isn't likely she's able to change even if she recognised the value of doing so #3.

You do love her and you are not a bad daughter. She is well looked after. You see her regularly and you are kind to her. You told her no more than the truth when you pointed out that you are not responsible for her, it's just a shame it had to be forced out under duress.

The only thing I think I'd change is: stop counting the number of missed calls.

Daughterof1930 Feb 2023
Seems you’re asking what to do to make it all different or better, and I think from what you relate here that you’re already doing great. You’ve found a safe environment for your mother to live in, you visit and talk to her on the phone, you provide gifts and cards and see to it that she has her needs met. That’s all she needs. You need to care for your home, family, and health and your boundaries with mom are helping you to ensure that right balance. It’s okay or be a bit sad that mom isn’t going to be different or better, but don’t let that get in the way of you knowing that you’re already doing the right things for her, and that there are limits. No need to defend yourself or explain any of your decisions to her, it will only frustrate you both. Take calls only when it’s good for you, the NH will let you know if there’s an emergency. So what if the VM’s pile up, that’s what delete is for! You’re doing great, stay focused and lose the guilt

AlvaDeer Feb 2023
Try to live your life without being dependent on the opinions of others. Guilt is the wrong word. You didn't create this and you can't fix it. You are not a Saint, and that's an awful job description anyway. Visit several times a week. Tell her that you will accept one call in the a.m. and one in the p.m. and will not stay on the phone if she is disturbing to the peace you need in your daily life. Your boundaries and limitations are you own; embrace them.
The g-word more appropriate to this situation is not guilt, but grief. That is what has happened in this relationship a whole lifetime. Seek help for yourself in counselling so you do not stay in the same muddy rut.
Life is full of no win situations. Sadly. I wish you the best.
JoAnn29 Feb 2023
Did u mean to write several times a week or don't visit several times a week?
STLonlychild Feb 2023
Also, she is complaining that I don't take her on outings and she's stir crazy in there, but she is extremely incontinent and weak and when we went to her doctors appt. Last week she urinated all over herself and clothes and I had nothing with me to change her, not to mention she can barely move on her own and is a big woman and I don't want her falling. And she can't even maneuver herself down the hall of the NH with her wheelchair so how am I supposed to take her to a restaurant?
AlvaDeer Feb 2023
Tell her you cannot do this. Gently. If she wants to rage and cry about it, then simply remove yourself, telling her you will return later and will be able to stay longer if there is pleasantness.
You have been raised by this person and that has consequences for your life; get a good counselor. I wish you and your Mom the best and glad she is in placement for her.
No one can do this for you but yourself. It is a this point a choice that you and you alone must make.

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