My dad has dementia and lives with his wife of 13 years. We found out (not by dad or wife) that wife had given $75,000 to a scammer out of their investment account. She's blaming my dad saying he did it, but the investment firm said he never logged in and she did it (she is a narcissus and doesn't take responsibility for her actions. Only one of her many children have a relationship with her. We can't tell if she's a liar or has dementia). Then we found out, during the same week, she was taken by another scammer. To make a long story short, she blamed the 2nd scam on the investment counselor which he quickly corrected her on. They also received a large IRS refund last year. Neither one of them know if/when it was ever received. Also, several regular withdraws are coming out of their investment account and checking account. Neither one know what it is for. The banker asked my sis if dad had dementia (he kept asking the exact same question 4 times in a row). He gets mad if we ask any questions of the banker when trying to clarify. His wife has POA/MPOA and neither one of them will let us take over for him. He always says they have it handled. After coming back from the bank where we checked on their accounts, his wife was AGAIN talking to spammers! They live in a very nice independent living place and we are afraid she is going to give everything to the spammers. I know it's difficult to prove incompetence and she puts on a good dog and pony show. It's wearing my sister & I out and it's all we think/talk about. EXTREMELY stressing!! Trying to decide to keep at them for POA/MPOA (they both get mad) or just let it go and let them throw all their money away and end up in a Medicare nursing home.
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Obviously, consult with an attorney on this first, but there's no reason why your dad should go down with his wife's ship when she's clearly not competent either.
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Also, they might be agreeable to naming you a trusted contact on their accounts. That doesn’t allow you access but allows their banks to contact you if they suspect fraud or anything amiss. Then you have a quiet conversation with the financial institutions about what’s going on and they’ll flag the accounts to contact you when dad and mom write a suspicious check.
In the case of a friend, the bank even called the police to come to the bank and explain to the elder that she was about to be scammed.
Scampers are getting more savvy. Someone in my HOA lost over a million.
In our situation there was nothing we could do to try and recover the money. It has significantly impacted her future now that she is in a NH as she is running out of money. She will need to go on Medicaid which will mean moving into a double room. It will also limit her ability to buy the things she wants to make her life more comfortable. It is a terrible situation but nothing I can do about it as the damage has already been done.
If they won't allow you to manage their finances, there is nothing you can do. I think you should be honest with them about what will happen when they run out of funds. If they can't move in with you or you aren't prepared to financially support them, let them know now. It might not change their actions but at least it might help alleviate any guilt you could have once they are out of money.
And its Medicaid not Medicare. You must keep a record of these withdrawls. And report the fraud otherwise its considered a gift to Medicaid and there are penalties.
The moral of this story is that you should check their social security accounts and find out if this is happening to them. If it is, it needs to be reported in many places. The local police department told my LO that they cannot do anything, it happens a lot. That wasn't much help!
LO did get money back from SS. But they don't give any info about how the case is going or who did the crime. It took about two years to get this resolved. The bank to which the money had been redirected could not give any info. Stonewalling at every turn, and most people would probably have given up.
Who is POA for the wife? Is there one?
This may be a case where immediate guardianship is needed. APS can help you get referred where you need to be.
If there is no solid diagnosis of incompetency here (and as RealyReal has said several times on forum, that is different that just dementia) you may not be ABLE to do anything, but it sure is time to find out. So sorry this is going on for you.
Go to a certified elder attorney well versed in Medicaid. You will need it in their future at the rate she is going through their assets.
Get your ducks in a row on what you will need to do going forward should you decide to gain guardianship for your dad. Even if his wife does not have cognitive decline, she is a poor steward for their future. Be very careful who you discuss this with until you know what you want to do and have gathered the evidence the attorney feels you need to be successful. I’m glad your sister is helping you.
It would be easier to walk away but most of us can’t do that or at least not until we are bloodied and bruised.
You may need more proof than what you have now.
Should one of them have a health event, you want to be ready to take action. that’s usually the best time to make significant progress. The law is on their side as it stands today. They have the right to throw their money away. You have to show they aren’t able to manage on their own and even then it will be hard is my understanding.
Sometimes an emergency guardianship can be granted.
So sorry you have this to deal with.
I spoke to a very good elder law attorney. He said it would be at least $20K to gain guardianship. That's a sticky situation with her living there and a LOT of money that I'm not sure any of us are willing to fork out since we are all retired.