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DaveTNT Asked August 2023

What can I do? I believe my cousin is being murdered by hospice.

My cousin went to detox for alcohol. He has liver cancer and an infection he had in his face from a motorcycle wreck and finally after a long search a doctor finally got an appointment to have surgery to fix his face issue. He went to detox and was looking forward to having his face fixed. When they transported him to the hospital from detox for the infection, he got combative because he wanted to make sure he went to the appointment to have his face fixed. He pulled his tubes out and they sedated him. At that time, they called his mother a day later and said they lost her information, and she needed come and get him. they then transported to hospice and now they are keeping him sedated and he has not been able to come out of that state since the first sedation. He was fine and coherent and up with life and wanting to do what was best for himself prior to the sedation. I am appalled at this time since my cousin is not the type to just want to end his life and now, he has no say in whether to go through with the suggested hospice care or not. He has not come out of their 24-hour sedation because every time he starts to come to, they administer more morphine and advocate. This is beyond belief, and I disagree totally with it all. I am hoping to get any feedback as to what I can do to handle this. as I believe the person who has power of attorney is not competent enough to decide any decisions for him as well as she may be trying to cause his death. I hope anyone who can help will respond quickly because I'm running out of time to help him live if it’s possible, please help! I’m scared for him.

BurntCaregiver Aug 2023
Can I explain something to you? It comes from personal experience.
My first husband was an alcoholic who died from alcohol related complications when he was a young man.

Your cousin's face infection had to be treated with antibiotics and cleared up before surgery for it could even be a possibility.
My first husband had extensive liver damage like your cousin and also had an infection that required antibiotics. His live was too far gone to be able to process the medication and he died.

Hospice is keeping your cousin sedated as an act of mercy. Anyone will pull at the tubes and get agitated. That is why there is sedation.

Your cousin has cancer and is an alcoholic. His cancer could have spread very fast. He likely also has cirrhosis and aeschites as well. These are painful conditions that require morphine and other drugs to help a person's suffering. These conditions can get very bad very quick. He may have been coherent and seeming fine to you, but he wasn't. He was having a good day.
The day before my former husband went into the hospital to die he seemed almost like his old self. Like he could rally and get better. He couldn't. He had to be sedated (a drug-induced coma) and then he went to God's mercy in peace.
I think the same for your cousin too. Go and be with your cousin in his last days. Ask his doctor to explain what's happening.
lealonnie1 Aug 2023
Amen and well said. To accuse hospice of "murdering" a man with liver cancer is ludicrous and to accuse his own mother of nefarious and sinister acts is a huge injustice when she's sitting there with him daily wanting to prevent his suffering.
BarbBrooklyn Aug 2023
Dave, I so feel your pain.

If the cancer has metastasized (that means it's spread) to his liver, it can be deadly. And horribly painful.

His body can not absorb nutrients which is why he isn't being fed.

There is a patient advocate at the hospital. Also social workers and chaplains. That’s who you want to talk to in the morning.

Wishing you well.

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SnoopyLove Aug 2023
Omg, these posts with “murder” and “hospice” in the title.

PSA: if you sincerely believe someone is being “murdered“, call the police. Don’t go on an anonymous internet forum to complain about a potential murder. Sheesh!
ventingisback Aug 2023
Right!
BlueEyedGirl94 Aug 2023
First, Dave let me say how very sorry I am that you are going through this. This must be terrifying.

Let me also say that hospice is only called in when a person has a life expectancy of 6 months or less. There are certain exceptions, but that it the norm. So if he has gone into hospice, you need to understand that it is not likely that they are just keeping him sedated because he is combative and needed care until his mother could come get him. Had they just needed someone to take care of him until someone picked him up - they would have discharged him to a rehab facility or something similar.

Hospice is end of life care.

They are sedating him and giving him Ativan - an anti-anxiety medication. Hospice care is explicitly for "comfort" care or compassionate care for people in the advanced stages of terminal illnesses. They don't typically do anything to prolong life, but they also don't do anything to bring on death. They do what they can to make patients comfortable.

They are there for both the patient, and their family and friends. To offer comfort and to keep the patient comfortable and ease their last days. They are not causing death. The person is already dying.

For some family and friends that is incredibly hard to process. That is another reason hospice is typically brought in, to offer comfort and respite for the family.

I know this is difficult. It was very hard on our family when hospice was brought in for my dad, and we knew it was coming. I can't imagine if you didn't know it was coming.

Liver cancer can be pretty aggressive. Is it possible that it has progressed and you aren't aware of how far? Are you allowed to get information from the hospice nurses? Will they update you on your cousin's situation?

It doesn't sound like your aunt is a very nice person. But your cousin did choose her as his POA. Typically people choose someone as their POA that will make the choices for them that they themselves would make if they were able to do so. It's unusual for someone to choose a POA that will not act in their best interest. If you think that she is actively acting against his best interest I suppose you could bring that up with the hospice nurses.

But honestly it is better for you to understand the entire picture about your cousin's health before you try to intervene. If you are unaware of his current cancer prognosis and he is genuinely end of life, maybe it is better to understand that first. This is such a difficult time for all of you. If they bring him out of sedation to make decisions, what does that look like? Is he in pain? Would he be able to make sound choices? Or would he be in too much pain? Or become combative again? Keep his ENTIRE best interests in mind as you move forward. Gather all of the information before you proceed. I know you have his best interests at heart and you love him and only want to do what is right. But you need the full story before you make any moves.

Sometimes even those we love and think we know well don't tell us everything. Take a deep breath. Reacting in panic sometimes leads us to do the wrong thing even for the right reasons.

Best of luck.

MJ1929 Aug 2023
My father (a non-drinker) was diagnosed with liver cancer and was gone six weeks later.

I have a feeling his situation is considerably worse than you realize. I understand your agony, as I had it, too, but please don't second-guess the very difficult decision his POA (mom?) had to make.

And no, hospice does not murder people. They're solely focused on quality of life -- in your cousin's case, managing his anxiety and pain, not dancing a jig.

It sounds like he lived hard, and now his body is giving out. I'm very sorry.
DaveTNT Aug 2023
starving a person and denying the basic necessities of life while he is sedated ???? thats not quality of life !! now is it??? and when he wants to speak or begins to wake up she demands sedation in a panic!! she wont leave the room and they give her a sponge and water to keep his mouth at least moist...but she dont even give him it she is sitting in his room across the room making sure he just dies... any suggestions from any family is rejected by her... he is suffering and to know he was alive and alert moving and laughing as well as planning to be fixed in his face ... hanging out and using tools to help me just a week ago when he told me he believed his mother just wants him dead.... she is an alcoholic as well and is not competent enough to decide anything not even for herself let alone anyone else,...something just isn't right!!
Midkid58 Aug 2023
Dave, I am sorry to read all of this.

Liver cancer is 100% fatal. Period. Unless the person qualifies for a liver transplant, which, based on your comments, your cousin would not qualify.

My SIL is a liver transplant doc and also a hepatologist. Most of his patients die. It's sad, but true. You cannot live without a liver.

The infection is a side issue, unrelated to the cancer. Looks doubtful that he can have any kind of surgery as he is so sick with the cancer.

Perhaps you can get someone to talk to you about what is going on with your cousin's body? The things that Hospice are doing are simply keeping him comfortable, they arent' killing him. The cancer will do that.

The POA can and should make the hard decisions. Take a step back and ask yourself IF your cousin could have chosen you as POA, why didn't he? This person is who he chose. I'm sure they are not enjoying this experience at all. It's awful to have to see someone suffer and Hospice can keep them from the excruciating pain of all his myriad health issues.

He's proven to be combative-and while you want him to get his face fixed, he may simply never be healthy enoough to do that. I'm so sorry.

Go visit him and be supportive of the POA, who probably feels as awful as you do, or more.

And, BTW, if he is 'fresh' out of detox, it would be hard to find a dr who would want to perform surgery on him.

Sorry--that's just the facts. Please take care of yourself during this time.

NeedHelpWithMom Aug 2023
Dave,

I posted earlier but I just want to say that I understand how you feel. I have addiction in my family. My oldest (deceased) brother was an opioid addict an had liver issues, Hep C.

My brother also had a horrific motorcycle accident and nearly died.

You cousin has many complexities in his life. All of these things may have caught up with him and there isn’t a way for him to survive.

My brother’s lifestyle eventually caught up with him and he died in a hospice facility.

It’s truly unfortunate that your aunt has mistreated your cousin. Obviously, she has her own issues with addiction.

I can understand why your cousin reached out to alcohol for comfort. Plus, you can’t overlook the fact that he was following his mother’s example. People will either follow their frame of reference or they avoid it.

Addiction is a disease. I have enormous empathy for people who are struggling with addiction.

I found Al-Anon and Nar-Anon to be very helpful to me. It helps to meet with others who have similar experiences in dealing with family members who are addicts.

No one wakes up in the morning and says, ‘Hey, I want to be an addict today.’ Addicts are human beings just like anyone else.

Some people are able to go into recovery and others struggle to make it to that point. Some make it and they go back and forth between recovery and addiction.

My brother was a great guy when he wasn’t using. He successfully ran his own business. Sadly, for one reason or another he kept slipping back into his addiction. Addiction will steal everything from a person, even their very life.

Again, I am extremely sorry that you are suffering. I spent many years crying over my brother’s pain. He accepted death when he entered his hospice facility and his restless soul is finally at peace. I take comfort in knowing that.

I hope and pray that you will find peace. I don’t think there is a way for you to help your cousin now. If you pray, now is the time to offer up a few prayers for him like I did at my brother’s bedside for him.

It’s hard to say goodbye to people that we love. I was the last person to see my brother. He died the second that I left his room.

Wishing you peace. I know that it probably isn’t what you want to hear but, for what it’s worth, I will say a prayer for your cousin and for you. I know that you would rather know that your cousin will pull through. I’m so sorry that I can’t tell you that he’s going to be okay.
BurntCaregiver Aug 2023
@NHWM

Al-Anon was very helpful to me too. Your brother sounds a lot like my first husband. He was a great guy. He had the biggest heart and he would help anyone. He was a hard worker too. Never drank on the job and never missed a day of work for being drunk. He wasn't mean or abusive either.
He tried so hard to give up the booze. He'd get sober for a while then fall of the wagon again and again.

It wasn't his fault. He was an alcoholic. Most of his family were alcoholics. Leaving him broke my heart, but I couldn't live with a drunk anymore.


When he was sick I helped take care of him. I was married to my second husband at the time and he understood why I had to and was cool with it.

My first husband knew he wasn't going to recover. Addiction killed him like so many others.
Beatty Aug 2023
I hear panic & I am sorry for your hardship.

Maybe you don't have all the medical facts, especially as you are not the MPOA.

I read your cousin has liver cancer - maybe it is more advanced than you believed?
DaveTNT Aug 2023
Yes i am in a state of Panic !! This is my cousin and I am his older cousin...He looked up to me we have been together all these years... Im 62 and he is 56 ... I am not even saying that his medical conditions are not serious or that he is not in pain ....I am concerned about him not being able to say whether or not he wants the treatment.. a week ago he was at my house telling me his mother wants him dead and he was in my back yard helping me dig for a repair that I have been doing with my plumbing... This man whether or not he has any medical ailment or serious condition has no say in how he lives his last days nor can he say goodbye or anything... He is my little cousin and yes it hurts I just want it to be fair for him too. His mother has at times been found to harm him as she has a drinking problem as well... she is even believed to have push him down a flight of about 28 stairs ... and after his motorcycle accident when he was still healing ...maybe a week after his surgery ....was on top of him punching him in his reconstructed face... and he hides in his room and drinks due to the way she treats him and makes him feel like he is just a burden... it is very saddening when a person is an alcoholic but to have his mother who is also a heavy drinker and is his caretaker make decisions when he is sedated only because she says and has power and at the same time has an indirect animosity toward him is not right... at least they can stop the sedation long enough to let him say something about it... every time he is about to come out of his sedation she demands them to give him more so he cannot speak and they say he can hear us and knows we are there but he cannot respond is sick and beyond immoral .... I may have said murder and all that at the time but that's not the correct word to say...Im very disheartened and also sick of the way my aunt has made it here choice to allow them to starve him sedate him and deplete him of any fluids while she happily sits there waiting for his death 24-hours a day...when i suggest to at least let him decide she gets mad ... I say well give him some nutritions or fluids give him a chance to have a moment to say how he wants things she gets extremely mad and says no he don't need food we don't like food anyway... and I believe she is just forcing an early death... he just needs to get it over is how she puts it... and that's one of the main reasons why he would come to me and tell me how she was treating him and why he would lock himself in his room for days drinking ... she made him feel unwanted and as if he was just a burden... I dont care we are family and I will always be here for him regardless ... its not that he didn't have medical problems or whether he was in pain or anything like that... nor am i saying he wasn't going to die from his illnesses... no one leaves earth alive right...its the quality of the care and decisions made for his remaining life he may possibly have... I don't know about you but i was always taught to expect the worse but always hope for the best...at least give someone the benefit of the doubt and allow them to decide what they want ...especially if they are about to die...right??
Fawnby Aug 2023
I'm very sorry for your pain.

Dave, your cousin made many decisions in the past that didn't serve him well. His lifestyle has led him to this point. At the time he thought he was living his best life, but all of those decisions have come home to roost and put him into this present circumstance.

I understand that liver cancer is very painful and the survival rate is low. Hospice is there to help, not kill him. Cancer and infection are killing him, not hospice and his mother. Hospice is trying to keep him from the agony of the excruciating pain that goes along with his condition. If you were to witness such pain, you'd probably be even more upset than you are now with his being sedated.

You need to talk to his hospice team so you can better understand what's happening. I wish you peace.
BurntCaregiver Aug 2023
@Fawnby

People can get cancer and other illnesses and it's not because of their life choices.

No one ever has to hear that a person they love made bad choices and their lifestyle put them where they are.

No one in grief ever has to hear that because it's cruel and completely unnecessary.

~BC 8/12/23
exhaustedcarer Aug 2023
I'm sharing what I went through to perhaps help you have a better sense of understanding what the front end of hospice entails....I had relatives accusing me of administering too much morphine as the cause of my father's decline/death. They literally said had I not given him morphine, he'd be in better shape and alive. Truly insane! They were his siblings (my aunts and uncles), completely uninvolved in my father's care and ruthlessly dismissive whenever hospice nurse provided updates. They undermined what the nurse and hospice doctor had to say about dad's condition, (smirking, laughing, very immature/petulant behavior). Dad started to actively die a week prior; his fever was the first sign the end was near. The night before he died, I was told expect 2 weeks for his transition to be complete, but he passed away the next day by noon.

Relatives were in such chronic denial my father was dying, it wasn't until he was actively dying and the drastic change in his physical appearance did they THEN and only THEN begin to comprehend what was happening. And what did they do? Started acting out, treated me horribly all because they had guilt for not spending any quality time with their brother. It also had to do with none of them able to control the inevitable outcome that was looming, my father's impending death.

These same relatives also accused me of starving him when hospice had instructed me to remove food/water. So these relatives who insisted my father should not receive morphine also believed he'd turn into an addict! Then they panicked and demanded I administer morphine in large doses at a greater frequency than what was prescribed, which I could not legally do. My father was still communicating and according to his wishes, he received morphine to abate the level of pain he was in (he had end stage CHF, diabetes, coronary artery disease and hypertension). He was on 10 liters of oxygen and morphine helped him with his breathing. Morphine also helped in the final hours when he was twitching a lot from agitation.

These relatives also insisted dad just had to eat a burger and he'd be fine, make a full recovery. Or, drink Ensure (which would've put him into a diabetic coma)...Next they wanted me to force feed him, which is abuse. Of course I did not because I knew my father did not have the capacity anymore to eat, chew, swallow. He went from using straws, to sippy-cup, to dabbing water on lips with a sponge until that was removed, too. They did not have any general understanding why I was following specific protocols as instructed by the hospice team because they chose not to be informed. And guess what? I DID NOT HAVE POA!! The uncle who flat out refused to be involved in dad's care was the POA along with their middle sister. Yet none of them wanted any responsibility with hands on care, but were quick to dictate what they thought was best.

Accusations can come with consequences too. Your cousin's mom may not have all the power you think, or pull to have him on hospice. That can only be determined by the doctor who signed the certificate requiring hospice care (which is also required by insurance). Best you can do is try to speak to someone on your cousin's hospice team and learn for yourself his true state of condition. You are still family and they might be able to share enough with you to help you during this troubled time. Maybe once you're better informed, it will help you see what is happening and the medical necessities behind these decisions.
Fawnby Aug 2023
Rude Aunt, who didn’t participate in hands-on care with my dad, insisted repeatedly that if we fed him mashed potatoes, it would cure his cancer. He didn’t like and wouldn’t eat them. She accused another family member of visiting him with a cold (didn’t happen) and giving it to him when it was actually the death rattle in his last days of life. She refused to believe he was dying. It was so stressful, as was your experience. You can’t make this stuff up.
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