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JimiS228 Asked September 2023

Can current nursing home facility lie about patient behavior to the new facility which caused the new facility to decline her admission now?

There’s not been any report/notification from the facility ever about her trying to escape from the facility or her being disruptive until today out of curiosity what can I do to help get her out of this situation and get her back to a safe, secure place?

Taarna Sep 2023
Ask for all documentation about the problem behavior(s). If there is only a one time incident, then you can share this with the new facility - might want to share the documentation as well. If this is an ongoing problem, you need to address this behavior problem(s) with medical staff - before moving your loved one.

Dosmo13 Sep 2023
People can lie in many situations, but you need to check out this report as much as you can.
Don't panic or make assumptions until you find out more. You may hear more than one account of what happened. You often will, until you investigate further. Assure your mother that you are checking into things but don't promise anything except that you are investigating and her safety and well-being are your main concern.
Any unusual occurrence must be documented by the nurses who care for her. There should be a fairly detailed written account of whatever concerned the facility. If you are her designated "responsible person" or guardian you should be able to find out by speaking with whatever nurse (RN or LPN) was assigned to her at the time. There should be a written report of anything that caused them concern. A copy of this report must be kept by the Director of nurses. Do not rely on anyone else at the facility for accurate information (except your mom's physician) who should have been informed.
The physician may have knowledge about the actions/reactions possibly related to her medication or condition. The answer may be as simple as a medication change. Don't overlook him/her as an essential source. Ask for his evaluation.

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Llamalover47 Sep 2023
JimiS228: She should be seen by her physician.

Roscoe2118 Sep 2023
Ask her doctor to examine her. Possible it's a reaction to medication or lack of proper medication.

Chizzle Sep 2023
They want easy, collect their money without major disturbances, have so much business they don’t see why they must contend with a nuisance of a patient. Agree, some individuals are way out of control, and cause havoc in the daily life of the establishment. Why would they want an extra troublesome situation, when they basically can choose and pick? Yes, they pass the word and the file is rejected by same minded centers. Happened to someone very close, who according to the less than likable administrator, kept screaming at night, attempted daily to get up, causing turmoil in the hallways. They resorted to administer in house doctor approved sedatives to try to keep her out of the way, and certainly she gather the disfavor of the staff in the different shifts, with very rare exception. Tried to discharge her earlier from their facility. They absolutely prefer docile, well mannered residents, which in a way is an extension of what we all wish for. Sad, but undeniably true. Now, if money is no object, they’ll take anyone into their system, and rest assured, they’ll even say she/he is a darling. Very stressful situation for loved ones. Oh, by the way, when she was finally discharged they kept several quality items, no questions asked.

Sample Sep 2023
Yes and they do.

Munruhh Sep 2023
I am not sure whether or not HIPPA laws apply here but it is entirely possible they had you sign away those rights on one of the stack of forms they ask you to sign and submit.
I had a similar experience with my mother when we were in the hospital with her broken hip. I did not realize that the group in the hospital who had taken responsiblity to locate nursing home care for her were undermining that effort by describing her as "trouble to care for" when they contacted various nursing homes. It was only when I called those same homes directly and asked why they were rejecting her that I found out what the hospital was doing. The additional irony is that when she was causing that "trouble" it was the result of drugs they were giving her, until I stopped them.
I would suggest you look at this from a legal standpoint, rather than trying to determine whether or not they are telling the truth. A serious conversation with the management at her current nursing home might put them on notice that they do not have the authority to reveal any of her medical issues to anyone else without your permission. If they say you have given it, put in writing that you are rescinding it and that you not long authorize them to speak to others regarding her condition.

GAinPA Sep 2023
Ask to meet and discuss documentation with head nurse in charge of unit to review care plan. Try and "read the room" are they bound and determined to boost her out and/or seriously unable to met her needs? Advise that you need to talk with her primary care and or specialist to rule out underlying conditions and get doctor's orders for care plan. There is a point where you will need to consider what is the safest outcome. My mom reached the "still walking and causing major disturbances" stage that triggered the effort to eject her from her lovely private memory care room. I campaigned through primary care doctor's approval of medication followed by hospice in her room. Worked for awhile till she fell.

elisny Sep 2023
More information would be helpful in addressing your concern. Why are you trying to move her? Who is paying the NH - private pay or Medicaid? Could it be the current NH wants to keep the income?

It seems odd that a nursing home would want to restrain someone from going elsewhere voluntarily IF the resident engages in what the NH claims is bad behavior. Something seems amiss. I would bring this to the attention of the Administrator of the potential new NH.

As others have said, the NH's allegations about her have to be documented. Of course, they could have the documentation - even fabricated. Lying and essentially doing anything to avoid liability is part of the NH playbook in many facilities. If there is no documentation re their claims, or if it looks fabricated, I recommend getting an attorney involved (see www.naela.org).

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https://www.medicare.gov/what-medicare-covers/what-part-a-covers/skilled-nursing-facility-rights

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SNFs don't have to accept all applicants, but they must comply with Civil Rights laws that don't allow discrimination based on these:
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Age
Religion under certain conditions
If you believe you've been discriminated against, contact the Department of Health & Human Services, Office for Civil Rights."

iameli Sep 2023
Hmmm…let’s look at the logic of this situation. NH is making a negative report to new NH which could cause new NH to reject her.

Is current NH willing to keep her on or are they kicking her out? What do the contemporaneous reports say? No reports? Why not?

if the facts are as you say, you should be able to knock this down pretty quickly.

AlvaDeer Sep 2023
Can they lie? Well, they shouldn't, but how would you prove that they ARE lying? It comes down to he said/she said.
Your best thing would be to tell the new facility that if escape was ever tried or contemplated you were never informed of same.

At the same time, if a locked facility is the one being investigated as the new home, I cannot see that it much matters. I agree with others below that your best chances of a solid placement is a full assessment to take to new facilities.

anonymous1732518 Sep 2023
This would have to be written down per the laws in your state regarding nursing homes

JoAnn29 Sep 2023
Did you have any care meetings. If so, were these things mentioned? I would ask where the paperwork is that says she was an escapee and disruptive, something that can be medicated for. Maybe they have the wrong resident? There is a law that an employer cannot say anything negative about a former employee that would keep them from getting a job. I wonder if that goes for a NH. They cannot say anything negative about a resident that would keep the person from getting into another home. My opinion, if the problems have not been charted they can't say it.

AnnReid Sep 2023
If you can, get a professional who identifies h/h practice as “Geriatric Behavioral Psychiatrist”, and have her evaluated as soon as the professional can see her.

This was one of the best things we were able to do for my LO when she entered memory care.

Placed on a very small dose of soothing medication, she learned to enjoy her surroundings and until COVID, did very well.

Whatever happens moving forward in your mom’s case, an objective diagnosis of her behavior will always be helpful dealing with placement.

MeDolly Sep 2023
What does the paper trail say? They have to fill out a report on any internal issues with a patient.

If you are the POA they should also notify you so you have the opportunity to correct the situation.

I have seen this happen before as the home does not want to lose the income.

BarbBrooklyn Sep 2023
Welcome, Jimi!

In your shoes, I would call the State Ombudsman tomorrow and ask for help navigating this.

You don't want to show up the the NH your mom is in ranting about "lying". I believe you want to ask to see documentation of the incidents they are reporting and ask why, as her POA, they weren't reported to you. (I'm going to assume you have POA).

You also want to find out what steps they have taken to keep your mom safe.

If indeed your mom has had a sudden change of mental status and is suddenly trying to escape and is combative, make sure she is checked for a Urinary Tract Infection. These can cause psychiatric symptoms in elders.

Why are you planning to move mom,?

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