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PeggySue2020 Asked October 2023

My sister wants to buy mom's house. Mom told me she doesn’t want to sell. Oh, and the in-laws have their aides kid living there.

This all happened today.


 


My father, 90, died Aug. 4. My sister has been spending nights with mom, and mom has been equivocal to mean toward my sister who is pursuing buying the whole house from mom, even though mom told me last week she did not want to live under her child’s roof.


 


My mom is 87. She doesn’t have dementia. She still drives. However, my YS said that middle sister had found a way to “transfer” the property to YS while preserving Prop 13 in California for YS and that we would talk about it.


 


So, ok, but really not. My mom does not want to sell, first of all. Second, I assume we’d all be on the hook for gift vs estate tax. Third, this is way too soon for anyone to be accelerating this.


 


Ok, and then we are going home and his mom calls. We pop over there and there’s this 6 yo there, not even the child of this aide but one from some relative of hers, and it’s late. The child may be sleeping there for all I know. I told DH I wasn’t going to be part of affirming this behavior and he shouldn’t be either.

BarbBrooklyn Oct 2023
Peggy Sue, has your mom applied for her SS benefit to be increased so she is getting Dad's benefit?

Survivors Benefit Amount

From SSA.gov:

Surviving spouse, full retirement age or older — 100% of the deceased worker's benefit amount.
Surviving spouse, age 60 — through full retirement age — 71½ to 99% of the deceased worker's basic amount.
Surviving spouse with a disability aged 50 through 59 — 71½%.
PeggySue2020 Oct 2023
I don’t know. I’ll have to ask. So she’d get her ss plus my dads then?
BarbBrooklyn Oct 2023
1. Does mom want to live with your sister, and vice versa?

2. Will mom ever need Medicaid for LTC? Only say "no" if she has at least 2 million in reserve aside from home. Because this "deal" isn't going to sit well with them.
PeggySue2020 Oct 2023
1. Allegedly, my mom told middle sister to talk to the attorney about how ys could remodel the house without ys having to pay gift tax. But my mom and ys are having tiffs of the two women in one kitchen type. Most of my dads clothes are still in his closet. I am still failing to see why we can’t put this off for at least six months given the normal trajectory of grief.

2. There’s about 1.5m remaining in mom’s retirement accounts. Beyond this, she only has the social security that stay at home moms do. If she exhausts that, however, I don’t want her to go the Medicaid route.

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PeggySue2020 Oct 2023
I talked to my middle sister, who went to her estate lawyer over this. The same guy also did my trust, which I need to change so will be seeing him anyway.

Anyway, the lawyer suggested a 15 percent gift deed for ys in exchange for ys doing renovations that would amount to 15 percent of the house if it sold today. If mom dies in 5 or 10 years, it would still be 15 percent with the other 85 percent divided among the three of us.

sp196902 Oct 2023
Just to clarify mom pays the gift tax not those who get the gift. So you wouldn't be on the hook for anything. And yeah selling house to sister below market value is probably what the sister is angling for.

If sister wants to pay full market value and mom wants to sell it to her thats moms choice.

But it sounds like mom is being manipulated and pressured by your other two sisters which is not cool.

As for the in-laws it's not your monkeys and not your circus. You have enough problems in your own messed up family dynamic to worry about someone else's family.

AlvaDeer Oct 2023
I don't know HOW competent your Mom is at 87, nor how grifting your Sis is. Nor even who has any power here as in POA. But if your Sister does something like trying to get this home at below market value, that is pretty much going to an illegal, abusive action. Moreover, SOMEONE needs to know that the money from the sale goes into MOM'S account for MOM'S care. Add to that, any trickery to avoid taxes is going to bite someone's butt big time in future.

If there is a sale I hope the POA for Mom will ensure she has LIFE ESTATE in the home.

I can only recommend, if you have any relationship with Sis and Mom at all that the THREE Of you attend an Elder Law Attorney for a consult on options here. And if you do NOT have a relationship, and this sister has now taken over "caregiving" of your Mom, you may want to step away and let the poop hit the fan before you get splattered good with it.

Family wars NEVER END WELL.

As to the MIL. Oh well, just make it clear children can't come. Then when the caregiver doesn't show at all you can take over?? I mean, is that the option?

PeggySue2020 Oct 2023
Point of clarification. The child I refer to is not ys child, my niece, who is 12. The 6 yo is the in laws’ aide’s relative. Two different situations, but we saw both families yesterday.
sp196902 Oct 2023
You're focusing on the wrong thing here. You need to focus on your gritting sisters.
JoAnn29 Oct 2023
Does someone have POA? Do they think that its in effect, because its not. Not as long as the principle is competent. The house needs to be sold at Market value in case Medicaid maybe needed in the next 5 years. Why would you be responsible for gift tax if YS gets the house?

You need to protect Mom and Dad. Maybe time to put the house in a trust. Would be doing this keep to sisters from being able to take it right from under your parents? Your not trying to protect from Medicaid, your trying to protect from greedy sisters.

The child, if Mom doesn't mind you shouldn't either. But I may pull aide aside and tell her this cannot be an ongoing thing. I really think its nervy to bring a child not your own to a clients home. But I can also see where there may have been an emergency. I agree with burnt some elders love to have children around. But, I would not want it to become a habit. The aide is there to do a job.

BarbBrooklyn Oct 2023
Peggy Sue is talking about two DIFFERENT situations; her mother is a recent widow who has an adult daughter staying with her. Two of her daughters (Peggy Sue's sisters) want mom to sell the house to them.

Peggy Sue's in-laws have an aide whose child or niece is staying there.

Peggy Sue, is that correct?

BurntCaregiver Oct 2023
If your mother does not have dementia, still manages her own life, and is still driving she can have anyone she wants staying at her house if it pleases her.

It's her house. Not wanting to sell and move somewhere else is not unreasonable.
Please excuse me if I speak plainly here, but your sisters sound like they are greedy and trying to pull a fast one.

Maybe your sister doesn't have to spend nights at your mother's house if she doesn't want her there. With the child being there, it would seem to me like your mother is planning on moving in the aide responsible for that child to be her live-in aide/companion.

You and your sisters should not be quick to dismiss this as a terrible idea.
Talk to your mother about what's going on and not at her. See what she says about her situation.

Fawnby Oct 2023
Be concerned about the child living there or even visiting. Kids frequently get colds and other illnesses that could be serious if mom gets them. Older people get pneumonia and it kills.
BurntCaregiver Oct 2023
I'd be more worried about 87 year olds driving then getting a cold.

People get pneumonia shots today. I was a caregiver for a long time and can tell you that children can be like a tonic for the elderly. Clearly the mother doesn't really need hands-on care if she's still able to drive herself places. So what's wrong with having the kid around of she likes them?

I used to bring my boy around on some cases that did not involve any hands-on care. The old people loved him. A situation like that could very well be what's going on.
Debmiller Oct 2023
PeggSue2020, I am a big fan of lots of communication. I am a retired therapist. Could you arrange a family meeting as an opportunity for everyone to share what they are thinking about mom's situation? Of course, start with getting mom on board with the idea. Speculating and assuming what others want and need will just cause problems. If needed, you can schedule a Zoom meeting so that all sisters can be present. If Mom is competent, her wishes need to be heard by all at the same time. It would be wise to make such a meeting structured so that everyone can say what is on their mind without interruption. Take notes so that when emotions flare later everyone can look back at the notes. Email a copy to everyone after the meeting.
Discuss the house, the visiting kid, future care plans that Mom prefers, etc. It may seem daunting but if you do have a meeting you will not regret it.

Good luck!

BarbBrooklyn Oct 2023
What kind of living situation DOES mom want, Peggy Sue?

Would she like sis to move out?

Will she tell her that?
PeggySue2020 Oct 2023
My mom told me that she was open to ys paying 400k to remodel the upstairs into kind of a 2br in law suite for her and her child. That’s obviously a gift that obviously requires tax. I persuaded mom to ask her accountant as to who pays. Anyone here know?
sp196902 Oct 2023
Your siblings are out of line here. They need to leave mom alone.
BurntCaregiver Oct 2023
I agree. The sisters need to stop. Everyone should have a sit-down with the mom and find out what's going on from her and what she wants to do.
AnnReid Oct 2023
The more tangled things become before your mom is able to rationally make decisions on her own, the more difficult those decisions will be to undo.

If Mom is TRULY LUCID regarding the aspects of this situation, SHE needs a good family practice lawyer’s opinion. She also needs to get her paperwork in order for POA and her will. If that hasn’t been done none of you will be able to take charge when/if necessary.

If she is dealing with “a little forgetfulness”, “needs a little help that she didn’t need a year ago”, “doesn’t always lock her door or sometimes leaves pots on a hot stove burner” or “doesn’t seem to keep herself up and dress as well as she was before” or any other observable changes over the last 12-18 months, she also needs a physical and medical opinion.

If you have ANY SAY among your siblings, you may want to suggest that ALL OF YOU get out of the picture as far as decision making that at least for now, belongs to Mom.

You decision, right now, is fine. Stick to it.

PeggySue2020 Oct 2023
Yeah. Like I don’t any of this makes sense at base levels.

NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2023
Geeeez, sounds like a bit of coercion from your sister. I’m assuming that your mom informed your sister that she isn’t interested in selling.

Or has your mom only told you that she doesn’t want to sell?

It’s your mom’s house. It’s your mother’s decision to make, not your sister’s choice what to do with her home.

You could ask her for more details regarding the child who may be staying there.

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