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Xbox1993 Asked April 15, 2024

My sister and I were both POD on moms checking and savings accounts. Now sister has convinced Mom to make her a joint holder of checking.

we are POD on several accounts. Only one is a Checking account. Now sister is joint on that with mom after a “discussion”. I was expressly told I am not “needed” to be on it by sister I said I should be added as joint also and was told “no” by sis. Mom clammed up. How does this work out for me as POD now? I am thinking sis is sole owner if mom passes. And the POD vanishes. What should I do. Mom is 90 and seems to have memory issues and Alzheimer’s symptoms but no formal diagnosis. 2 siblings including me share her care including sis but she is the least helpful for years. Ironically! We have both been named as co executors in her will. Sis likes control and has always controlled mom with mental mind games. Very complicated and Long story.third sibling helps mom with us but is not in her will at all and she is fine with that I am concerned about this new joint status on checking Thanks. PS. I am the oldest sibling—-so much for that!

Rumbletown Apr 15, 2024
This is a very interesting question – I’m not a legal expert of course but most of the Internet materials have to do with joint accounts vs POD accounts. Your question is what happens if an account is both joint AND has a POD designation. Which takes priority at the moment of death of primary owner? The joint ownership – so control flows to other owner – or the POD – it flows to the designated beneficiary on death and bypasses the joint owner?

I found one website with regard to California law which seemed pretty clear. If there’s a right of survivorship written into the joint account, the joint owner takes priority – and the POD only applies when both owners have died.

It states:

“Accounts With a Right of Survivorship

Most joint bank accounts come with what's called the "right of survivorship," meaning that when one co-owner dies, the other will automatically be the sole owner of the account. So, when the first owner dies, the funds in the account belong to the survivor—without probate. If you add a POD designation to this kind of joint account, it will take effect only when the second owner dies. Then, whatever is in the account will go to the POD beneficiary you named.
EXAMPLE: Virginia and Percy keep a joint checking account with several thousand dollars in it. They hold this account as joint tenants with right of survivorship. They decide to name their sons, who are both adults, as POD beneficiaries. After both Virginia and Percy have died, the bank will release whatever is left in the account to the sons, in equal shares.”

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/avoid-probate-book/chapter1-3.html

I mentioned this so that you can have an educated discussion, not because I have any legal expertise.
AlvaDeer Apr 15, 2024
POD is pay on death of holder. But I think problem here for this OP is that one checking account is now in JOINT ownership the mother and daughter. For any number of reasons this is unwise, as marrying the money in two names makes it difficult with issues of gifting and so on were mother to need Medicaid assistance ever in future. It should be in mother's name with a listed POA, the daughter who is writing checks. The owner/s of an account are just that, the owners. If one dies it goes to the second owner, who can keep the POD or change it. Joint ownership of an account will also state, in the case of checking account, whether one or both names are required for withdrawal or closing of the account.
JoAnn29 Apr 15, 2024
I would hope the bank sees that there are PODs on the acct so sis being joint is only good while Mom is living. Then u and sis get what is in the acct as beneficiaries. Call the bank and ask your question.
Xbox1993 Apr 15, 2024
I will have to try that. Banks can be difficult with privacy but I will ask as general question. Thanks

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DianaFS Apr 15, 2024
Speak with an estate attorney or financial advisor.

Ohwow323 Apr 15, 2024
One of my brothers did that with my daddy. Then I told my brother to back off. I took daddy down, got control of everything - checking, savings, trust. My brothers (all) have money issues. I took daddy to elder attorney got everything in my name and opened trusts for brothers so that when my daddy passed they all had something and I had something. That one of us didn't end up with everything. The only thing I kept was the house with the vow of keeping it so that we all had a place over our heads, or a place to come to if we were in trouble. I am not the oldest but I do have the integrity to keep that vow I made to my daddy.
Xbox1993 Apr 15, 2024
It’s not possible in this case. Mom and sis have an unhealthy relationship and years of behavior quirks. She or both would never agree to going to a bank with me to remove what has happened. I’m glad you nipped the problem in the bud. I have a very difficult mother and sister. It’s now getting worse which I did not expect. Thank u for your story. I know I’m not alone. My father had it done to him by his two siblings. My mother had a strange estate situation to deal with when her dad died. God bless.
AlvaDeer Apr 15, 2024
Your mother likely put your sister on this account so as to make her able to pay bills. Who, first of all, is the POA? Because if mother is competent to make decisions ONE of you (the other serving as second) should be POA and put on the account as such. That person can then write checks using your other's name and with addition of "by _____________ as POA".

I don't know how much is kept in checking, but this is likely the smallest of the accounts. If this one done so Sis, who as you say "is in control" can write checks to pay expenses for her mother/your mother.

If you two don't trust one another I think it's sad that you are co-executors, as it will cause a whole lot of dissention.

For myself, I only had one brother. I trusted him and would have with my life. And when he fell ill he made me POA and Trustee of every cent he had. I was meticulous in its care and followed his instructions, while he was able to make them, to the T.

I would, were I you, relieve my mind of this worry. To tell the truth, were your sis to end up with a bit more money, consider it payment for the work she does in primary management for your mom, in bill paying and etc. Just let it go. Don't let money spell ruin to a loving relationship. Just my own opinion.
Xbox1993 Apr 15, 2024
Yes being a co executor will be difficult with her. There is no poa. Other checking options were ignored. I am primary caregiver for 8 years along with sibling who is not in the estate plans (happy with that) and Sis angry because we asked her to help more . Im also caregiver for Two disabled children related to me which cuts into elder caregiving. 6 years was just care for mom.Now I have less time but never had trouble with moms singly owned account of hers. We sat and did bills She (sis)decided ONLY bills would be her “help”and talked mom into joint status without me also. Mom agreed to do this unfortunately. Very skewed family. Sis unstable and scheming is her hobby. Many family splits due to control issues. Sis and mom always at the center of this. Only two of us do the real work of caregiving. Third sibling and I.

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