A couple of days ago my mom was having chest pain so she called an ambulance. After he had determined she wasn't having a heart attack and that she seemed ok, the paramedic then told her that she had one week to go to her doctor and hire an in-home nurse or he was going to have a judge "force commit" her to a nursing home. He said that he would bring the police to take her out of her home and put her in a nursing home and there's nothing she or her family could do to stop it I was not there but she called me after they left crying like I'd never heard before she told me what he said I have never been that angry in my life me and my family are furious that he told her that and we are wondering is that something he can do as a paramedic and do we have any legal right to stop him my mom said she will never call an ambulance ever again because of what he said please if anyone can help with this question my mother and my whole family are scared wondering is her going to show up with the police and take her away.
My mom is 64 and over the last year she has started having difficulty walking and has recently started using a walker and that was the paramedics justification for what he said to her that she can't take care of herself I take care of my mom I take her to the doctors I bring her food and fix her medicine i know far more about her health and well-being then some paramedic who meet her one bad day I wish i had been there but at the same time I'm glad I wasn't cause I would have probably went to jail for throwing him out a window she does not need to be in a nursing home so if you know anything about this please help.
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I think, in this case, we cannot know what happened, or who was right.
Rather than continue to respond to members, and not our OP, who I have given my opinion to, I am bowing out of this thread.
But Buzzer, I leave you with this.
You are an adult.
You know the company for which this EMS person works and his or her name will be on the paperwork.
Do go to the company and speak with them.
I think it may bring you a whole lot of clarification.
And do tell mom that next time such a thing happens she should dial you at once and have you speak to the EMS yourself so that you can clarify what is happening.
I truly wish you and Mom the best. I hope her back heals soon. I have been on the walker with my own and am right now in my nifty Amazon binder, trying to heal my latest bend and reach disaster. I hope she feels better soon.
I've had a pretty good life and have no interest in concluding it with the drawn-out misery of a NH.(I acknowledge that many in this forum have spoken of excellent NHs, and I am happy for them and their loved ones. My decision would be based on the ones I've directly observed myself.)
If I couldn't remember or execute on any of the strategies I've studied for avoiding a NH, I might panic and call EMS. I hope not, but it's hard to say in advance.
But my resistance to calling wouldn't be a symptom of mental illness, just a response to what I'd experienced in the past.
Anyway, your posts always make me think, and I'm processing my thinking as I type so this might be sort of sloppy.
I appreciate your point about how if this person has been going around doing this there are likely to be other reports. I hope you're right! I'll just note--and I'm not proud of this--that I did not report the APS person I mentioned in my other post. I just don't want to risk messing with people who have the power to strip my mother of control over her finances, her physical person--everything, really. If it were just my own life on the line, I'd report (or hope I would, anyway). But this is my mom, so the plan is to hunker down.
[EDIT: A social worker cannot directly appoint a guardian, I realize. But they can force us to deal with a dumb, lazy, and/or corrupt judge who can do that. I've read some horror stories for the past 20 years--stories researched and published by legitimate news organizations.]
To stay home and die would be akin to never seeing a doctor because one was not good, to not go to a hospital because one nurse was bad, to not see a psychologist when needed because one wasn't good.
What needs to happen here is that this concerned OP needs to go and followup and ask WHAT HAPPENED and WHY it happened.
I have found EMS personnel, in a long history of nursing and in four separate instances with family and neighbors in the last year to be some of the most marvelous people out there.
I don't know what happened HERE.
You don't either.
But I am suspecting (in fact I happen to believe) we are not getting the whole story.
If this were you would you not follow up with the ambulance company? Because I would have as soon as the crisis was over.
I believe there is at best some misunderstanding going on here and at worst perhaps some confusion with excitement or even prevarication.
Is my belief. And I am good with you having yours.
But will leave you with.................if you need EMS your best chance to LIVE from stroke or heart attack is to call them at ONCE.
Don't worry. No one is clapping you into care.
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It is her legal right to decline treatment, but APS was called and the APS dude was, at our front door, the day after we returned from the hospital.
My mom has given me medical POA, already in effect, so that I can help her when she is too tired/pain-stricken/out-of-it to resist to make decisions herself. The APS rep told me I was not allowed to talk and rejected our POA paperwork (even though it is 100% in compliance with state requirements).
He told us that HE would be monitoring the situation and was empowered to intervene to ensure she receives proper treatment (meaning the treatment she'd declined in the hospital). The exact steps that would be involved in this he did not explain, but he did leave us paperwork related to guardianships.
Honestly, I know as I write this that everyone is thinking, "well, we're hearing only one side," or "that cannot be right." After it all went down I questioned my own sanity.
All I've come up with is that this was a guy who sort of got off on pushing around two women. (I've had co-workers like this on many occasions over my work life.) There's probably more to it, but that's all I've got.
The encounter scared the hell out of me and made me want to link arms with the anti-vacc anti-gov bunker/prepper crowd.
I'll quickly add, though, that my experiences with paramedics have been wholly positive (over the past 10 years we've called twice after falls). Each time they were clear that they were just making recommendations. One time they even hinted that we might try to get mom into my car to save money on the ambulance ride. There was no sense of "the state" invading our home and imposing its will.
I truly hope that your mom's next encounter with a paramedic is a more normal one.
I am sorry you had that APS experience.
I DO think I know the type of person you described. They wish to help, are in a helping profession, but their *help style* is TELLING someone (often women) what they SHOULD do. Instead of a conversation between equal adults, that style aims to sets up a power imbalance. With them in the authority position.
I have a distant male relative that gave this style of 'you should..' advice to me.
I said Thankyou... Goodbye.
I thought 'Shove that & bugger off mate!!!'
I’m sorry your mom was so frightened by his behavior.
Do you know if your mother has been abusing EMS? You'd be surprised how often EMS is abused especially by seniors. I did client homecare for 25 years. I can personally tell you of clients who called 911 for the police because the pizza they ordered was delivered with sausage instead of pepperoni. I had clients who called ambulances because they wanted to go to the store and didn't have a ride. Others who would "stage" falls and other false "emergencies" then call the paramedics because they wanted attention. One elderly client called 911 for the police because the neighbor's cat was in her yard.
So, if I were you instead of making threats to throw the paramedics out the window, why not talk to EMS and ask them how many times in say the last two months or so, your mother has called them. You might be surprised.
If it turns out that this one incident is the only time she's called them, then I'd ask the EMS supervisor why this paramedic responded to your mother like they did.
You say in the comments that your mother isn't a hoarder. Then she does not live in a filthy, unsafe environment. If this is so, there is some reason other than she uses a walker for why the paramedics responded to her in such a way. My guess is she abuses the system.
You seem to be taking this matter as a personal attack against YOUR caregiving efforts for your mom. Which, in fact, may not be enough since the paramedic saw something wrong in her home or lifestyle. You need to put your indignance aside for a moment and ask yourself if mom is getting ENOUGH care with what you're able to provide her with? You're likely working full time, and she may need someone coming in for 4 hours a day in addition to what you're doing. Look at this unemotionally from the perspective of what more SHE may need?
Then follow BarbBrooklyn's excellent guidance of sending a certified letter to the ambulance company. That's your best bet.
Wishing you the best of luck with all of this.
Is the director an MD because I think a doctor oversees perimedics. As said, if no call back, call the licensing board. When u talk to them, don't accuse just tell them what Mom said.
And by the way, not all ambulance squads have perimedics. In my Town and surrounding towns they are EMTs. Less schooling than a perimedic. Perimedics are out of the hospital and come out for certain calls, like heart attack.
BUT............and HOWEVER
An EMS person is a "mandated reporter". That is to say that he/she MUST report anyone they feel is in an unsafe environment for WHATEVER REASON. That report would likely be made to an authority such as APS which would open a case and visit, assessing the person's mental and physical status and ability to remain home safely.
Should this authority decide to make this a court case then it is the COURT that can demand either placement or in home care with guardianship of family or appointed Fiduciary of the state. That's how all this works.
None of us here can judge the EMS person's reason for making the report.
That will be assessed by those he/she reports to.
You list absolutely nothing in your profile about what health conditions your young mother has that warrants her walking with a walker or anything else, so there has to more to the story as to why(if in fact they did)the paramedic said what they did.
I visit with a woman who is 100 years old who lives by herself and uses a walker to get around her home, and if for some reason the paramedics had to come to her home, they would under no circumstances say that she was unfit to live by herself, unless there were signs of abuse or some kind of neglect.
So....like I said, we're only hearing yours and your moms side of the story. I can't help but wonder what the real truth is here.
We cannot judge what the EMS personnel are worried about, but they are mandated reporters. While they cannot themselves get anyone into care they can get a 5150 for transfer to hospital for assessment. EMS MUST report something they see as unsafe senior in a home.
We can't know what happened here.
Is it possible the paramedic saw the inside of her home and it was "less than perfect"? Is she able to keep herself and home in livable condition? Is she a hoarder?
It certainly was wrong of the paramedic to scold and scare her but they are mandated reporters so something must have caused him to feel the need to tell her the things he did.
I would do exactly as BarbBrooklyn suggested. If there is a certifying or governing organization that accredits paramedics or ambulance services, I would go above their heads if they aren't responding to calls. Keep your attitude and tone calm and professional because you're basically on a fact-gathering mission to begin with.
I hope you can get to the bottom of what happened and why.
No she is no hoarder
Send it and a letter of complaint to the ambulance service (send it certified mail).
Get to the bottom of this. You are hearing one side of a VERY disturbing story. You need to hear what prompted this threat (if it was made).
And get your mom to her doctor for and top to toe checkup, include an assessment of her anxiety. Extreme anxiety was the first symptom of my mother's cognitive issues.
Im sorry to hear about your mom but my mother doesn't have any cognitive issues her mind is as sharp as ever the reason for what he said was because she has trouble walking because of a pinched nerve in spine which causes pain and weakness in arms and legs
And the stressful day stressful job part his job is to help people not scare them if he does that to other people they may also decide not to call for help people need to feel safe calling a ambulance if he can't handle the job with care and compassion he should find a new one
If someone calls over and over and they go there each time to find that it was nothing really wrong, they can. Because the ambulance service is being tied up for someone that doesn't need help.
But if it's the first time, that should never happened.
My x husbands neighbor was calling so many times. They finally committed her for 3 days.
But if that is not the case then that's horrible.
I would go to the emts and ask them , they may have a different story that you may not know, with that being said though, you will get more answers if you leave your anger at the door.
I have attempted to call the ambulance service and speak with the director but he will not answer or return my calls or messages
And as for what she told me i believe her 100% she doesn't have dementia or anything her mind is as sharp as ever she doesn't lie or make things up she usually super happy and laughing and cutting up but since he talked to her she is depressed cant stop crying