My father is a danger to himself and others. He repeatedly threatens suicide, has several guns. I worry for mother's safety as well as his.

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SDJ64246 Asked June 2024

My father is a danger to himself and others. He repeatedly threatens suicide, has several guns. I worry for mother's safety as well as his.

Dads always been verbally and physically abusive to family members. These last few years he's getting so much worse, alienating everyone and denying access to our Mother who has dementia. I worry he'll kill her, then himself. What can we do legally? Before he hurts her.

Dad Elder Abuse Home Safety Stress Violent Behavior

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score 3 · Answer 1

This is how elderly people end up being murdered by police! It's always well meaning do-gooders who go to the worse people for help the police who have no training for this sort of thing seen it happen many times. He says one wrong thing or makes a quick move and police will shoot your father 20 to 30 times! Do something in family is best bet move your mother to a family members home or facility on your own. Never ever get police involved most old timers are all talk.

Helpful Answer (3)

This is why in our family's experience law enforcement asked US to remove the firearms. This should be tried first, in tandem with sneaking the Mom out of the house permanently. Once that happens, the husband will either spin out of control or resign to family and authorities (doubtul). But if all else fails then the police should be involved. The OP won't be able to have APS or social workers try to help them if they know guns are present. It's a tough situation no matter what.

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score 0 · Answer 2

I hope that SDJ will come back to speak to us about what might be helpful here, and what has been tried, what will be. This is a dire and disturbing situation.

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score 3 · Answer 3

If he threatens you or anyone else and you are witness to it YOU call 911 and say that you are afraid for your safety and for the safety of others. Explain the situation.
If he threatens suicide you call 911 and that he is threatening to commit suicide.

It honestly sounds like your dad is not competent either.
If you know where the guns are in the house and you can safely get to them and remove them from the house or lock them up so that he does not have access to them please do so.

Does he have a Primary Care Physician that he has seen recently? Is there a way to get him in to be evaluated? If not the ER will have to do.
IF and when he gets to the ER you must talk to a Social Worker and say that mom is not safe with him in the house.
The ideal situation would be to remove m om from this volatile environment.

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score 3 · Answer 4

What do you do? You put in a call to the local police or the ATF and tell them that he has mental illness, demenita, and a history of violence and will not allow anyone access to your mother with dementia who needs care and help.

Let them know that you fear he will harm her and himsef because he has threatened to in the past.

They will respond.

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score 0 · Answer 5

I think Dad has some cognitive decline here to. I would go to the police station and tell them what you said here. They should go with you to the house in case Dad becomes violent. You Mom, should be removed from the house and placed somewhere safe. Dad should be Baker Acted for 72 hour Psychic evaluation.

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He well may NOT, JoAnn. He may be one of those desperate males we hear about all the time, who cannot handle life in the least way, who is abusive, and who kills his own family on no provocation whatsoever.
I wouldn't gamble the life of my mom on this one; and I don't care WHAT the outcome is for him.

(4)

score 2 · Answer 6

I would try getting mom out by telling the parents there’s a new Medicare requirement that women need to be screened for breast or uterine cancer or some female problem. Take her to the er and ask plainly for a social admit as she has dementia and is being screamed at by dad with guns.

After that, I would proceed to the police department to secure a tro for your mother so that your dad doesn’t know where she is or where she’ll be going to.

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score 4 · Answer 7

I would start with a call to 988, the suicide hotline to report what you said to us exactly and ask for advice. I would tell them that my next call is going to be to my local APS and I would make that call as well. I would then get family together and go to local police and sheriff office unless the former two advise against this.

It is, yes, entirely possible that your father will kill first his wife and then himself. And I would make it clear to ALL authorities that you speak to, that the removal of the guns from the home or their unthought out interventions could well result in the death of your mother, your father and themselves. The Forum has had this question before, unfortunately. I am certain we will again.

This isn't do-it-yourself. Your father should be ambulanced to a psyc unit and your mother removed from his care and to a safehouse.

Do know that when action is taken by family is when ALL OF YOU are in the most danger of losing your lives.
I am terribly sorry for you family being hostage to this madness.
Not every question has a good answer; I am afraid this is one of them.

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score 0 · Answer 8

Geaton, now I too can’t find the reference to 13 guns, so either it’s been deleted or else I’ve mixed up posts, for which I apologise. My particular concern is that right now it seems a fairly stable situation, and the bad results are most likely to come from an attempt at intervention - which is what OP asked us about. Gun removal is easily seen as ‘emasculating’. How did you get the guns out in your own episode?

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Margaret, I think for the sake of law enforcement, it would be easier for them to show up unannounced and catch him off guard than to wait for him to be in full paranoia/suicide mode with guns placed and loaded. The family would need to plan a distraction for him (like show up with balloons and a cake, or anything that would work). Or, they invite him out for dinner or something he'd look forward to. Even if they kept him engaged at the front door, and someone else snuck in another door and searched while he was distracted. This is a multi-person effort. It would probably require at least an hour. If he has them locked in a gun safe, then that's another issue but at least they're all in a single place and police could be told this and the location. Even if they just found the ammo and took that, it's better than nothing. Someone would need to distract the Mom too, or else she'll rat everyone out. But honestly if they were able to do this, I'd pack Mom's bags and tell her she's going on a vacation and that they'll meet up with her husband at the location then leave out the back door. Don't bring her back home again. My cousins did this with their 90-yr old Mom when they had to get her away from her neglecting and abusive husband (their own Dad). He went on a rampage (no guns) but was more worried about his money. He went to the bank in his enraged, demented state, fell in the bank, got a TBI and passed away in the hospital. Too good an end for that jerk. The OP should act right away. There's no good that will come from waiting. Two years ago a locally well known multi-millionaire in the next town shot and killed his wife with ALZ and then himself. His poor kids... what a horrible end to that man's otherwise stellar life (I'm assuming he also had dementia or depression or paranoia).

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score 3 · Answer 9

OP, you keep preying on my mind. Perhaps this situation is more ‘normal’ in the USA with its particular gun laws, but in Australia where I am this would indicate a seriously disturbed man and a serious danger to anyone else involved. Please get advice before you rock any boats. Please leave intervention to the people trained to do it. Please make sure that if anyone is shot, it isn’t you.

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score 1 · Answer 10

I knew a daughter with a similar situation. In this case, dad said he had killed hundreds of Mexican illegals in the past and still had guns on him. The horrified daughter enlisted authorities to figure out whether his serial killer confessions had any merit. The state did not act, Now her mom halfway believes he killed at least some people and is trying to protect him.

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score 0 · Answer 11

Please contact adult protective services in your area

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score 2 · Answer 12

OP, please remember that your mother has chosen to stay with F for many years, tolerating or forgiving his behavior. If the worst happens – particularly if it is prompted by any intervention you bring about - it is a result of her repeated choices about what she has wanted. That does not make it your fault. There are no possible winners in this situation.

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score 1 · Answer 13

If you go to the police, which you should do, they will probably tell you to remove the guns from the house. Have a plan to do so without inciting your dad's violence. Also if a social worker gets involved, they may tell you the same thing. They don't like to go into a home where there's a known gun threat. Again, have a plan.

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I think OP's chances of removing 13 guns 'without inciting dad's violence' are extremely slim. And F is quite likely to have hidden one or two, just in case.

(2)

score 3 · Answer 14

How awful. So sorry your family is dealing with such a horrible situation.

I hope others with personal experience or knowledge will chime in but my first thought is has your father had any dealings with law enforcement previously? Has anyone called 911 about his suicide threats when he makes them? Has anyone called APS or requested the police do a welfare check?

I think you need to document everything carefully, too, as you try to defuse this powder keg.

Hoping for the best for you and your mom.

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score 2 · Answer 15

My first step would probably be to make an appointment to talk to the Police or a Domestic Violence program about the situation. You will need to give them clearer information about the suicide threats and the ‘verbal and physical abuse’. They can usefully give you more detail about what needs to happen to trigger intervention, what evidence you need (if any), and what sort of intervention is possible. It is often hard to take action before a tragedy happens, even if you think it is foreseeable. Getting on their radar is worthwhile in itself, and they need to know that he has multiple guns.

If you want more from us, please give more details. Otherwise all we can offer is sympathy, which I can see you deserve. Best wishes, Margaret

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Margaret, in the US if there's an abusive, suicidal man in a house with a demented, vulnerable adult, we would call 911 immediately. No time to make an appointment. I don't think APS would go near that house knowing there's an unstable person with guns there. My SFIL had PD and Lewy Body dementia. He threatened to kill us. My MIL told us he had a rifle in the house. When we called social services they asked us if there were firearms in the house because this is quite common here, and particularly in my state full of hunters. They told us to call the police and when we did the police asked us if there were firearms in the house. Then they asked us to get the firearms out first. And we did.

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score 2 · Answer 16

The only think you can do is report him to the police and/or APS. You will need to warn them that he has firearms in the house, that he's suicidal and your Mom has dementia (in case they question her and she defends your Dad). Call now. If they remove one of your parents from the home, what plan do you have in place to care for your Mom? If no one is her PoA then social workers will probably refer her to a judge for a court-assigned legal guardian.

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My father is a danger to himself and others. He repeatedly threatens suicide, has several guns. I worry for mother's safety as well as his.

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