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I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
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III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
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V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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Just wondering if anyone has any personal experience with the Long Term Care Insurance? I'm considering buying it for myself so that my two children will have an additional resource should I live long enough to need daily care help.
Be very careful. Many policies are very limited. IE. Some do not cover people in a facility unless that facility has a 24/7 RN on duty. NONE do have that. So coverage is nil. Then there is the fact that if you pay all that monthly money for good LTC insurance, it STILL may not be enough to cover expenses, but it would be considered INCOME for the person and therefore could keep them from qualifying for medicaid. LTC insurance is a huge subject and requires a lot of research on your own part regarding the pitfulls both of having it and of NOT having it.
Was it worth it? I don't know. She took it out over 20 years ago, and it cost her about $2000/per year in the beginning. Over the years, however, it more than tripled in costs; the year she died, she paid over $6,000.
There was a 90 day "deductible", meaning she would have to private pay the first 90 days in a facility.
The policy had provisions for coverage of in-home care; also up to 21 days per year for respite care.
However, as with most insurance there were "catches". Respite care, for example. When mom went into respite care the year before she passed, we did the paperwork for her to be reimbursed, since she private paid the cost. I was still going through the process for reimbursement when she passed. The policy paid 2/3 of the cost - because, even though they pay for up to 21 days, there is a maximum they will pay each month. Since the entire 21 days were in the same month, and the cost exceeded that maximum, they wouldn't pay the full amount.
A lot of the payment schedules were like that: they pay "up to X" amount per day, but there is a maximum they will pay monthly; so that daily amount is not really true.
I recently purchased a policy similar to Grandma1954. It was very, very expensive; I paid it in one payment. It will pay a benefit to my survivors if I never go into care; my mom's policy had nothing like that. She was in the fortunate position of being able to afford it. However, I don't think she ever really understood that the policy would not have covered all of the expenses of a NH. I think she though it was rather more like an auto insurance policy - once you meet your deductible, (90 days self-pay) the policy picks up the rest, which would not have been the case.
I understand that my policy will likely cover only about half of what costs are projected to be, and I/we will have to cover the rest. I don't know of any policy that guarantees full coverage of costs.
You're the only one who can decide if it's "worth it", however. If you have a financial advisor - NOT an insurance broker, whose job it is to sell you insurance - that's a question better put to them. If you don't have a financial advisor, you might want to talk to your CPA about it, perhaps (s)he can put you in touch with someone who might be able to give you guidance.
Also, much like life insurance, there is no guarantee that you will qualify for a policy, even if you have the financial means to get one. My husband was denied due to pre-existing conditions that make it slightly more likely that he will need care in a facility.
Remember, these companies are in the business to make money. They make money by not paying out claims, so it's not really in their best interests to sell policies to people who will likely need to use them, or to make things easy for you when it comes to paying out claims. I had to jump through a lot of hoops to get any sort of reimbursement from Genworth; my mom paid more money over the years into that policy than they paid out for that one stint in respite care. If you're going to get a policy, I would make sure you sit down with whomever you think your POA/advocate is going to be once you get to the point of needing a facility, and make sure they understand everything included in the policy; you might not be in the position to be dealing with said insurance company once that time comes. My mom sure wasn't.
My mom had a policy that she bought in her late 50's or early 60's because she saw what the nursing home cost my grandma. Mom paid on it for a number of years, then the dementia began. At some point she determined (in her dementia damaged brain) it wasn't worth what it was costing, so she let the policy lapse. I found out about a year and a half later and to get the policy reinstated by payment of back premiums. Of course they would not reinstate as mom had been diagnosed with dementia.
How often does this happen? Mom never got any benefit from the policy. So be careful if you decide to purchase that someone responsible is in charge of making sure the payments are made. A family member was notified of the non-payment and decided to do nothing.
Dad bought momma a ltc policy when she was 61. Paid on it every year until she turned 85. Last time I paid on it was about $2700.00. She fell and suffered hemotomas and ended up in assisted living. She did have a 60 or 90 day wait were we had to pay out of pocket but once she got qualified they pay every month at $5017.00. She still has over $350000.00 left on the policy and she has been in assisted living for a little over 3 years.
Depending on your age now it might be very costly, if you can get it. I purchased mine 12 years ago. It is one that will pay out to beneficiaries if I do not need the Long Term Care Insurance. Every year I choke when I write out the check for the policy. I sometimes wonder if I took that same amount and placed it in an account and did not touch it would it be enough to pay for my care? (I would have the answer if I knew my future how and when I was going to die and what my ailments would be. But that is not going to happen. So I write the check every year.)
Someone posted a while back that the policy that their mother had the company was denying payment because mom lived in a facility NOT at home. So please check any policy carefully as to what it covers, when, how.
My parents had an expensive LTC policy on my mom, they couldn’t afford it for both. When she had a devastating brain bleed stroke and went to what proved to be a failed rehab, then to a NH the policy started paying for her care. It was maxed out within a year. She then went on Medicaid for payment of her care. Essentially the LTC policy only delayed the time until Medicaid so it wasn’t worth the expense. Every situation is different, but in our family a LTC policy wasn’t worth it
I think we were very lucky in the LTC policy my husband took out in his early 60s. It was for a set amount, with an inflation rider--an amount that could theoretically cover 3 years of care in a nursing home in our state. However, the money can be used for either facility or in-home care. It did have a 90 day waiting period, but hubby had an acute condition that made him eligible for in-home services from Medicare (OT, PT, aide twice a week for bath, nurse). The LTC company counted the Medicare-covered days in the waiting period. By the time it was determined by Medicare guidelines that my husband was recuperated enough to could go for outpatient therapy, the 90 days were almost up. We only had to wait for a couple of weeks before we could tap into the LTC policy to get home health aides. We've had aides several days a week for about 4 years now; husband just needs to get re-certified annually. And, a pleasant surprise, once he started using the LTC insurance we didn't have to pay the premiums any more! Granted, we paid for about 18 years and the premiums kept going up, but we're very glad we have it. The take-away is that policies vary all over the place, and it's best to get the one that's the most flexible in terms of how it's used. Premiums are lower if there's a longer waiting period, as I understand it; we had friends who had a Genworth policy and they had to wait a year before it started paying!
We have a policy with GENWORTH and they KEEP raising the premiums so it is quite expensive. They now offered plans for people to opt out which would definitely not pay for care so we are holding on to our policy. Other people have already offered good advice but if it was up to me, I would do the math and see if it is worth it if I self invest. My sister’s lawyer told her that she should self invest and self pay. Right now if GENWORTH raises the premiums as they threaten they will, it would cost us $47,000 a year! Not affordable!
A financial advisor encouraged us to buy the most we could afford when we bought it. This way we did not feel pressed to bump it up every time it was offered. Due to inflation.
My Aunt had long term care insurance. It ended up paying out several hundred thousand dollars before the cap came. I don't know what policies are being offered now, but I do know if I had not been available to do the claim paperwork and advocate for my aunt during the nurse led reviews, it likely would not have been usable. The policy paid out much more than my Aunt paid in and preserved her capitol. She was in assisted living and memory care for eight years.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Was it worth it? I don't know. She took it out over 20 years ago, and it cost her about $2000/per year in the beginning. Over the years, however, it more than tripled in costs; the year she died, she paid over $6,000.
There was a 90 day "deductible", meaning she would have to private pay the first 90 days in a facility.
The policy had provisions for coverage of in-home care; also up to 21 days per year for respite care.
However, as with most insurance there were "catches". Respite care, for example. When mom went into respite care the year before she passed, we did the paperwork for her to be reimbursed, since she private paid the cost. I was still going through the process for reimbursement when she passed. The policy paid 2/3 of the cost - because, even though they pay for up to 21 days, there is a maximum they will pay each month. Since the entire 21 days were in the same month, and the cost exceeded that maximum, they wouldn't pay the full amount.
A lot of the payment schedules were like that: they pay "up to X" amount per day, but there is a maximum they will pay monthly; so that daily amount is not really true.
I recently purchased a policy similar to Grandma1954. It was very, very expensive; I paid it in one payment. It will pay a benefit to my survivors if I never go into care; my mom's policy had nothing like that. She was in the fortunate position of being able to afford it. However, I don't think she ever really understood that the policy would not have covered all of the expenses of a NH. I think she though it was rather more like an auto insurance policy - once you meet your deductible, (90 days self-pay) the policy picks up the rest, which would not have been the case.
I understand that my policy will likely cover only about half of what costs are projected to be, and I/we will have to cover the rest. I don't know of any policy that guarantees full coverage of costs.
You're the only one who can decide if it's "worth it", however. If you have a financial advisor - NOT an insurance broker, whose job it is to sell you insurance - that's a question better put to them. If you don't have a financial advisor, you might want to talk to your CPA about it, perhaps (s)he can put you in touch with someone who might be able to give you guidance.
Also, much like life insurance, there is no guarantee that you will qualify for a policy, even if you have the financial means to get one. My husband was denied due to pre-existing conditions that make it slightly more likely that he will need care in a facility.
Remember, these companies are in the business to make money. They make money by not paying out claims, so it's not really in their best interests to sell policies to people who will likely need to use them, or to make things easy for you when it comes to paying out claims. I had to jump through a lot of hoops to get any sort of reimbursement from Genworth; my mom paid more money over the years into that policy than they paid out for that one stint in respite care. If you're going to get a policy, I would make sure you sit down with whomever you think your POA/advocate is going to be once you get to the point of needing a facility, and make sure they understand everything included in the policy; you might not be in the position to be dealing with said insurance company once that time comes. My mom sure wasn't.
How often does this happen? Mom never got any benefit from the policy. So be careful if you decide to purchase that someone responsible is in charge of making sure the payments are made. A family member was notified of the non-payment and decided to do nothing.
I purchased mine 12 years ago. It is one that will pay out to beneficiaries if I do not need the Long Term Care Insurance.
Every year I choke when I write out the check for the policy. I sometimes wonder if I took that same amount and placed it in an account and did not touch it would it be enough to pay for my care? (I would have the answer if I knew my future how and when I was going to die and what my ailments would be. But that is not going to happen. So I write the check every year.)
Someone posted a while back that the policy that their mother had the company was denying payment because mom lived in a facility NOT at home. So please check any policy carefully as to what it covers, when, how.
The policy paid out much more than my Aunt paid in and preserved her capitol. She was in assisted living and memory care for eight years.
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