How do you care for your parent when they have always had some form of mental illness?

gvergrl, Goo Club has possibilities. Sometimes my mind feels like mush, so it fits. How about a Girly Goo Convention? I'm booking my reservations; looking to meet you there.

Thanks for sharing, Neon. You go! Yeah. You time. I love it. Me time, too.

Piratess, don't be discouraged. We're listening. Sometimes we just need to vent. You ever talk outloud your problems till you find your own answer? We just need to hear ourselves talk some times. Cuz no one listens but each of those dear people here. I loved the book you posted. Still reading, in between laundry, directing my nine year old, trips to the nursing home, bank, and PO. And keeping up with dear friends around the Goo campfire. Now, I'll go check out your forgiveness post. Thank you much for sharing. How much do we owe you? LOL

Neon, Way to go. Put yourself at the top of your list. If you do, others will too. Glad you are getting some good advice from your therapist. Keep us informed and keep writing.
Linda

Good for you Neon..bravo! It will work out better if you get your self in order first, otherwise, who would do it if you got sick?

Pedicures and Manicures and Massages are all good girly things to unwind easily and cheaply. Buy a new shade of sexy lipstick, buy a sexy red dress. Buy the ingredients to that recipe you always wanted to try. Go spend a night at a hotel by yourself or with hubby for a quick and cheap getaway. Rent that movie you never got to see. Make yourself a picnic lunch and grab some music and go to the park and have a picnic. Go for a ride on the swings like you did as a kid........

Here is an article from Pyschology Today about Forgiving. It is a deep and heavy read.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199907/must-you-forgive

Well, girls I just came from my appt with therapist. I gave him a lot of old background history and some current history. He said that is was really good to be on this site. He said I am doing a lot of things right, the thing I (we) have to work on is disassociating ourselves from that parent. We can be there help them but disassociating is what we will be working on for the next five sessions. He asked me how I prioritize the family, I said my husband, son, mother, mentor child, sunday school kids not necessarily in that order with the last three and anyone who happens to have a tradgedy in their life and he said you forgot one person yep me. so thats who we will be fixing me but I do things for me to that are good he was telling me about one of his patients that came in on their birthday and he asked them what they were going to be doing that day and they went on about this and that and he said and what are you doing for yourself and the person was speechless, Well I'm ahead of the game I guess 2 years ago I bought me a car so I feel much better that I am on the right track and I want to thank alot of you for your posts as they help me to get on track or stay on track. Yes she is never going to change and I am not plugging in to her anymore. I do internalize a lot of stress which he will be helping me to do first clue exercise, take a walk ride a bike play volley ball and break a finger ??LOL he also said a sense of humor helps think I have that covered to He also said my father being controlling and a alcoholic a child may take on some of those characteristics interesting he should say that I always emulated myself after my father if I had to choose a parent. He wasn't home as much most of the time so guess thats why I picked him. Kick butt and ask for names later thats what I used to be I have controlled my hellious temper down probably 85 %. Well thats about it Mother can do as she pleases which is what has been happening and when she brings up moving and stuff I'm just going to say yes and go about my business tomorrow it will be over. and forget it will keep you all posted. So come on everybody put yourself on your list (for real) and make it a point to take care of you and #2 learn to disassociate yourself from the personality. Its like a lamp. Unplug the lamp the outlet is still there the electricity is still there (the parent) but the lamp is not "burning" You. plug it back in and it lights up. Good analogy.

Girls, I see you running over the same old ground of why...there is no answer. I was hoping by posting articles it would help you see as it did me there is no answer to the question. Our folks were hard wired into being the way they were at an early age at childhood. We are their victims, at least as children, they train us to be frightened of them so we obey their every whim. The trick now is to let that go and go on with our lives. Try to do the best we can for them and ourselves at the same time.

The book "If You Had Controlling Parents" does mention in it that much of it IS HARD TO READ. You may have to read it, get angry and then re-read it and then understand. It may take a couple of days for what you have read to sink in. At least it was that way for me, because yes some of it is hard to understand and except that this happened to you from a clinical perspective.

I am glad Neon that you got some closure (and glad you joined this post), it seems that your father came to 'so to speak' his emotional senses at the end of his life. Then there's the other perspective that they do not, such as your mother is doing, but she may in the end, you have to wait and see. Fingers crossed!

My mother could never admit fault, only rarely could I press a point so much that she would admit it, but she rarely does. Even if I tell her she's taken her meds out of sequence she denies that even though I push the medicine boxes towards her as proof. I have given up so to speak with that arguement. I have also read that folks with NPD almost act with the emotions of a "6 year-old", they act out and always want their way, so you may want to think of it with that respect. I will see if I can find an article that may help soothe your hearts.

Maybe we should give ourselves a name...like the 'goo goo cluster club' or something... chocolate covered caramel nut jobs. mmm.. yum. (And I love the jellies too!!!)
You are right. Any candy looks good.
And so far, I have to say, I have not disagreed with anything any of you have posted. Sometimes, I have to read it several times and in different moods, but eventually I can understand most perspectives, even greenbean's. And you are right, this is helping me. It is like group thearapy but without the price tag.

My husband just came back from fixing my father's water works (while he is away at the doc's,) and he said that my brother called the care giver and told her that he thinks she is doing a great job, and that he appreciates everything that she has been doing. W-O-W. Is life just one big misunderstanding? words are not taken as they are meant to be taken? Or, as my husband says, maybe he is just growing up.
Friends brought by a freezor full of food, a relative sent a box of clothes... I feel like crying. None of it was asked for, they just all thought of us in their bounty. With in three days I feel a sigh of relief. You all are dears and i am so happy to be here with you.

Neon, you shine, lady! What a precious story about your last moments with your daddy. Thank you for sharing it.

I think we all want similar things: love from a nurturing mother, who helps us find our best potential. Instead, sometimes, we end up pitying our mom's. They may have failed us, but can't give away what they don't have. A healthy mommy wouldn't act that way. So we try to limp along, and find love where we can. Sometimes we look in the wrong places, and suffer the consequences. But we still love our mother, no matter how strained the relationship. We love our daddy, too. Humans are imperfect, and we don't always know the reason why things are the way they are. Life is sometimes a mystery.

I am hoping that I can just let go of the need for validation. If I get it, wonderful, but meanwhile... it does me no good hoping for it.
I am glad you had closure. He surely needed what you gave him.

You have such insight gvergrl! I love your posts. I think you're stronger than you realize, because every time you write, you sound better all the time. So, KEEP WRITING!!!!!

I love your box of chocolates analogy. How perfectly fitting! You have a wonderful way with words. I love gooey messes, cuz I is one, LOL. And it's OK. Because sometimes I have really good and healthy days, too. Sometimes I think we're all a little nuts, and I have come to love each and every nutty friend, including myself. I see you as soft and squishy, and more healthy than you realize, and I want to have you in my box any day, because you are so sweet! I think we play musical chocolate wrappers, because at any moment of the day, we can change from coconutty, to a little nougat. I especially love the jellies!!!!!!! :) Sometimes I feel like I have punched in centers, and sometimes broken edges, but as with any box of chocolate, those taste just as good as the so-called "perfect ones." I think perfection is overrated, and highly unattainable, so lets all "melt together," and try to find a "good recipe" for getting through the rough spots. Sometimes we feel overcooked, and sometimes left on the shelf to gather dust. But every once in awhile, someone wants us for a special occasion or gift. Then we feel like blue ribbon material. Thanks for being in the chocolate box with all us nuts. I am so glad you're here!

And I want you to know that you can disagree with me anytime you want. It's OK. I valued other's opinions, and often learn something from them. I sure don't have all the answers, and gain my strength from each and every post. Gvergrl, you have the right to your own thoughts, feelings, and opinions. And if they differ from mine, that is perfectly legitimate. That doesn't make you or me right or wrong, just different. Wouldn't it be boring if we were all the same? I like boat rockers, so go for it. We don't have to argue, but we can politely disagree. Except in one area. I like you, no matter how you feel inside. Glad you have found a safe place to vent. You just keep writing, because you have been a huge help to me. Thank you. From one candy lover to another :) Take care!

Yes, the answers from my dad were very helpful and I feel no animosity towards him whatsoever I stood by him when he took his last breathe. Within the fifteen minutes I realized he was leaving I cried I am not a crier something I was told made a person week, I called him daddy haven't called him daddy in 44 years. He tried to reach for my hand I took it I wiped my tears with his hands and just kept telling him I love you Daddy I figured he needed to hear that before he left. It brought closure for me I try getting close to my mother as she lives with me she wants no part of it. So the relationship I had with Dad the last 6 months of his life helped me tremendously you see all my life I was trying to get validation from both my parents he gave me validation she is still holding out.

Neon, you mentioned asking questions and getting answers before your dad died. All of the health care providers have insisted that I tell my parents what I need them to hear NOW.
The only point I can get out of that is they are losing their mental ability to understand quicker than I realize. I do not know if they think my parents need to hear words of love, or if the health care people know that I am bottling up a bazillion questions of 'why.'
I do not need the answers like I used to . I know 'why' now. They were not whole people. They were nuts. That's a good enough answer for me. Did getting answers help you feel better, or did it make you feel worse? I got to ask my mom a slew of questions, and the only answer that I got that ringed true was, "I just never occured to me." Maybe there is an emotional dyslexia? I mean I have trouble with symbols, perhaps she has trouble understanding emotion. Maybe she never said, 'I love you,' not because she didn't, but because she didn't understand what it meant? Maybe her entire life with my father was such a bizarre roller coaster of confusing words and actions, that nothing was emotinal to her.
aah,.. too... hard. makes...brain...hurt.
let us know how you are today. I will be thinking of you.

I am awe struck with how you ladies say what I am thinking. each word, I can relate to. I wake up each night overcome with anguish. I pull myself out of it by thinking of my son and husband. I am able to go back to sleep with calmer, contented thoughts. But under lying those thoughts are : You have failed. You have not helped them, they are still unhappy. You do not deserve your loving little family.

I wish I could have thoses thoughts purged from my subconscious. I worry that reading the book will bring them up front and center. But I too went 'ding-ding-ding' on the check list.
I realize that we have a sisterhood of misery, and I Am glad that I have found people who 'Know." I do not have to explain anything. You all are telling me how strong I am, ha, you ladies blow me out of the water. I Take strength from your words, and each night The flood of thoughts is less. The emotions are less severe. I hear reruns of the screaming and instead of wanting to roll over and cry, I just shake my head and think what a miserable life they made for themselves. I pity them. I did not do that to them. I is not my fault. Children were not designed to rear their parents.
There is the safety of not being able to get to meet you. My little secret is out, but in safe hands. To be able to have someone to share these things with is so nice. It is something that I do not have to explain. I was going to say that you can not imagine the relief that gives me, but you do. You must. We have shared the same foot steps.
S.Sister, I know what you mean, it feels uncomfortable blaming my parents for my twitchiness. It is my life now. I have tried my entire life to pull away. Their dementia has really helped me do that. When they no longer recognize me, I'll be my own person. The person that I really want to be. And it will be so much easier to help them then.
I hope that you find what you need Neon. I really hope this helps you. You seem just fine to me. But i guess we are all like those chocolates in the fancy boxes. Together and flawless on the outside, a gooie mess with nuts on the inside. Maybe we are stronger for what we have gone through. But I examine my life and realize that even though I am openly amired by friends...I just do not get too close to any one of them. (because then they'll find out what a gooie nut job mess I am.) I won't be rejected if I never get too close. I have never had an argument with a friend, because I would never be honest enough to disagree. I just fade away.

Neon, Good luck with your meeting. We are all rooting for you and know that only good can come from such a full heart!
Linda

Dear Neon, I have read many many of your posts over the past several months, find you extremely fuzzy, LOL. You're very warm, too! You have more than once soothed my soul with your compassion and strength, and tender responses. Your laughter brought balance to many a heavy thought along the way, as well. You made me laugh at times when I felt like I was losing it, not understanding things, and looking for answers. You helped me see the humor in the serious. Don't cut yourself short, or discount your positive impact on others. I've seen you minister for good to many a hurting soul here, because you know. You know what it's like to hurt, be hurt. But you have received God's grace, and now pass that on to others, because you can. You have allowed God to turn your pain into a ministry to hurting others. And what a treasure you are!

Neonwocky, I love your humor, so don't stop that. It's dry and wacky, but insightful and spirit lifting. My husband says, "humor is not funny." It's the lighter side of serious, but tinged with grief and sadness. It truth with a twist, and turns the macabre into melodrama and beyond. I know it sometimes masks the inner pain. But you've turned it into art. So, don't give it up, because it makes you, you. And thanks for all you've shared.

Neon, I am praying for you today, as you meet with your therapist. I hope it helps you with your past pain, and strengthens your present dealings with your mom. I can relate to the fever blisters and button pushing. Remember who created those buttons, the parent who raised us. I'm hoping that the therapy sessions are not too painful for you, but cleansing, empowering, and healing. Let us know how things go, and what you learn. And I pray your therapist is gentle, compassionate, and loving. I'm so happy to hear you are taking this time out for you, and willing to put your life and past experiences to the refiner's fire, so to speak. Praying the "Great Physician" guides and directs your therapist, as he delicately and surgically removes the dead, old, unwanted tentacles of the past. God be with you, sister. Take care, dear Neon.

Dear dear Secret Sister, what an appropriate name, I read your posts and its like me talking. I a outgoing and funny but I think laughter comes from pain at least in my case it does and it always has ever since I was a young teen ager. That being said everything you said in the last two posts is me. I start therapy today to help heal myself I often say I am a very good mother I picked up where mother left off and my son is testimony to that. So I mother myself once in awhile even to go so far as to curl up on the sofa and hug myself and talk to myself as a mother would, sometimes I think I'm wacko. LOL Like you I mentor a child to make a difference in her life, all I had to do from 6 till now has made me too strong, I don't know how to be soft and fuzzy. I brought my parents down here from anther state about 4 years ago since than I took care of my father and he died he was also controlling and a alcoholic. But in his last months I asked him some really tough questions and got "real" answers finally. I also notice that most of us are True Christians and that helps I am learning to hand it to God and let him deal with it. I found the neatest cart that starts out with This is God Good Morning let me handle all your situations today and you take a rest. I send it to as many people as I possible can with out duplicating. I am 60 and am starting to have my limitations as well. So wish me luck with this therapist. I am very very strong and handle everything not necessarily well at all times the worst is when she pushes my buttons everytime I get upset I get a a fever blister a week later well have a meeting today so it starts NOW so have to go I could write a book. will get back to you later.

Dear Piratess, thank you for sharing the book about controlling parents in the above post with link. It is powerful, and I almost didn't read it. I'm usually not very fond of psychology books, as they were never much use to me before, but I can relate to so much of this, I am wanting a copy for myself. I keep wanting to highlight passages. My husband answered the quizzes for me, and I got a perfect score. In other words: ding, ding, ding. My parents were VERY controlling, and I did suffer the consequences; still am. You have read my struggles.

Some days are better than others. I am on the winning side, but the ongoing abuse can plunge me at times. Lately I've been feeling so ill due to dealings with my mother. I know it's just a feeling, and feelings pass. But in the midst of them, they feel like never. Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a freight train.

My favorite part of the book, besides relating to it, was: "Precisely because your parents were so controlling, you had to develop many strengths to survive when you were smallest and weakest..resourcefulness, intuition, perseverance, sensitivity..."

I think the best thing we can do for ourselves, (and each other) is to accept our own shortcomings, weaknesses, and be gentle with ourselves. I don't want to make excuses for myself, excusing bad behavior by continually blaming my parents, but acknowledge that I stand room for improvement. We can allow for mistakes without condemning ourselves. So what! No one is perfect. Why demand it? How about, we do our best, and not punish ourselves for less.

Try to correct and improve, but it's not about perfection. I don't mean to say we shouldn't try to do well, or strive for excellence. Nothing wrong with that, but don't be driven to the point of imbalance, at the expense of others, or health. Relax once in awhile. That was NEVER allowed in my family. (I should talk. I haven't done that in awhile. It's been a difficult year, taking over as Conservator for my parents.)

We need to realize that each of us has talents. You are going to have some I don't have. That's OK with me. I am not in competition with you. You will be stronger in some areas than others. I am not jealous or envious. Well, not too much, anyway. LOL But I'm not going to beat myself up for falling short. I am not particularly gifted in the same areas as my friends, but we learn from each other. We draw from one another's strengths, and sometimes help each other. And if I can cheer you on, or help you be better at something, we both win!

I am so thankful for my friends, and even for the kindness of acquaintences and strangers.

I think what's helped me more than anything, has been a wonderful Christian lady, who "adopted" me as her own. She befriended me, had me over for lunch, supper, gave me birthday parties, wonderful gifts, and loved me like a mother. She's gone with me to doctor appointments, and helped my paint the nursery for my son. She gave my infant his first bath, teaching me how to love my baby. (My mother never did.) The LORD gave me a precious gift in her, and me a brand new start (I was 42). Just Sunday, she handed me some fresh baked cookies, like a loving mother would. I'm closer to her than I will ever be to my birth mother, and will ever be grateful. I need to remember to tell her so, yet again. I have the tenderest of feelings for her, and the deepest gratitude, admiration and respect.

I don't know why I told you all that. I kind of take her for granted, I think, because she's just there. She's been in my life a little over 10 years now. She loves me when I'm mad or sad, and rejoices with me when I'm glad. And she prays for me when she doesn't know what else to do. She corrects me if necessary, but that is so rare. I think she lets God do that, when needed. She just loves. And she gives wise advice.

It is my desire to be that for someone else. I do for my own mother, but she just criticizes and complains. It hurts. It really does. She doesn't know what she is fighting. She loses every time, but thinks she's winning. How sad is that?

It is my prayer, that if you never had a mother to love you properly, and in a wholesome way, that God would send a special angel to you to help you heal. Someone who can stand in the gap for some of the hurts of your past, and tenderly dress your wounds. There is healing. Won't be 100% complete this side of heaven, but it's available to those who ask. I'll say a prayer for you. I won't know who asks, but God will. So, ask, seek, knock, and wait for his answer. It may come in unexpected ways. It is written: "Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares."

I just saw my mom. She doesn't look good. She hasn't in a while. She doesn't feel good, either. She said she was in bed most of the day. I told her she has an appointment tomorrow with an oxygen company coming in to administer her overnight 02 evaluation for her sleep study referral.

And today, I contracted with a "heavenly" home care agency to provide transportation to her appointments from now on. It will be costly, but less so to my emotional health. One thing the director told me today: "Take care of yourself first, then your husband and son; then your parents. Never forget that order. It is essential." Sounds like good advice.

How often do we do that? I'd say it's rare. I know I've given big pieces of myself away in the last year. I feel the effects, in terms of wondering "where I went" at times. I had a big job, and did it with gusto.

I've oft been asked, what would I do if another Guardian was appointed. It always comes back to this: my mom is still my mom, and I would be concerned for her welfare. Dad, too. But that's a different story; an Alzheimer's one, though just as sad. He is well cared for, and not altogether my concern, at present.

Concerning the past: I don't like the "could haves, would haves, or should haves." My life is what is was. Good, bad, indifferent. The reality is, we struggled. It wasn't great, but it could be worse. Thank God it isn't. I survived. I wasn't "super successful," but then again, who is? Outward appearances don't always reflect the inside struggle. We're all human, and we all have varying degrees of our cross to bear.

I love to get to know people, and love to be real, not surface. I detest surface, because it's so unreal and detached. I just like to hear who someone is, what they're feeling, what they like and don't like, and what brings them joy. And when they hurt, I hurt with them. You know, weep with those who weep, etc.

I think that's what I want to take with me from my past experiences. Where I was hurt, I now can empathize with those who have been hurt, or are hurting. I can really relate, and feel such a tenderness toward them. If I had only known joy, I couldn't relate. I don't know why I had to go through a difficult childhood and growing years. (Still growing, btw.) I am still learning from my present experiences, and hopefully always will be. I pray that it will make me stronger, more compassionate, and less pitiful. I am not a victim, but someone who has choices. What do I do with the lemons? Let them rot, or make lemonade? I know joy today I never had as a child, because I knew sorrow, and have something to compare it to. Friends are gifts from God. Not everyone is my friend, and that's OK.

My mom is not my friend. That's her loss. She missed my son's piano recital, but finds ways to get to potlucks, card parties, etc. When my father and mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up. I know God knows my name and my address. If he is for us, who can be against us?

I hope some of my ramblings make sense. I don't think we have to stay stuck in the chains that once held us captive. There is one who wants to set us free. Loss can be an opportunity for something greater. I'll never be a great pianist, but I can comfort the hurting and lonely. I can encourage the brokenhearted, because I've been there.

You, dear fellow travelers, can too! You who know pain can comfort another's. I know, because you have ministered to me. I don't require a PhD to help me, but a compassionate soul. I don't need a degreed person, just an honest companion. No one needs to impress me, just be humble enough to say, "I don't have all the answers," "I'm not perfect," (who is?) or "I just need a hug today." Then you're all giants in my sight, and as Caregivers to someone, you are heroes. Think about it...as another person on these threads said, "...you do God's work."

Yearight...yes there is a mourning period as you say, and then as you say we put it behind us and move on, because the future does hold a brighter key. Remember they will be gone one day and we cannot let what they did to us carry on. We have to deal with them the best we can, care for them the best we can and then move on. But we have to remember that we need to remember ourselves along the way!

In some cases that I have read, the influence was so terrible from NPD parents that their children end up being NPD as well to their children...that is the most horrid outcome of all. I think we are lucky because we knew what they were about was wrong. I saw that from my friends parents or television parents...yeah like the Brady Bunch parents...perfect parents (so to speak). The key word is 'EMPATHY', NPD's do not have empathy! They only use it when they want something...sad very sad.

Please remember the article I posted was from someone else suffering from a mother who had NPD. For each of us it will be a little different, that was her conclusions.

This entire situation of dealing with NPD is almost like a jigsaw puzzle you need to put together. You need to figure out how they are and why they are that way and how you interplay into it. Childhood trauma is usually the case of why our parents ended up this way - the book "If You Had Controlling Parents" explains this beautifully. As adults now we have plenty to say that we could not as children. The best thing you can do is to continue your caregiving as best you can, that's as good as any of us can do. But realize these folks really just live for themselves, so you must to. You probably would be taking care of her, because you are a caring soul either if she was good or evil. Each of us has their own path they must follow with this disease. Its up to us on how we want to handle it or not handle it. Therefore for some for whom it is too much over the years or such abuses as sexual abuse (yes I have read some horrid accounts of NPD parents doing such - those victims come out of this in a very bad way - I have seen their writings...very sad and very very much disturbed. I am glad mine did not include that type of abuse!

Do some internet searches of other people's posts on this disease, you can see how similiar yet slight differences on how it plays out in each one's own families.

Dear dear gvergrl, when you talked about being 50 and realizing you have been held captive all those years and finally realizing that you do have an opinion, i really understood the feeling. As i said before, my mom was almost an angel compared to you gal's moms but she has her own set of issues that made growing up in her home very strange and damaging.
When i moved her into my home it was the year i turned 50. I started remembering "things" from my childhood that i had forgotten. And not just my childhood but throughout the years.
Life was just plan horrid when she first moved into my home. Between her coming to terms with loosing her independence and her home, well, she didn't know how to handle this in a sensible way but only in her warped, paranoid way. And i reverted back to the way i had felt living in HER home all those years ago.
So i was almost a basket case.
That is when i earnestly began to pray for God to change me as i knew that she wasn't going to change. And that is when all the memories began to flood back. And so i realized that she wasn't a mean mom who hated me, but that she was mentally ill. And boy did that put things into perspective. i have been able to handle things so much better now.
My husband constantly told me "you are not that little girl anymore" and "this is YOUR house". And i began to take that deep into my soul and that was like a balm to the hurts and it strengthened me.
i read somewhere that if you had a bad childhood you need to go through a morning process in order to heal. I haven't done that yet but i know i need to. I think we all need to morn for the little girls we once were. We need to cry for those hurt, confused, lonely little girls. And we need to morn for the women that we never became. i know in my own life there was so much potential for greater things than what i accomplished. i am just a shadow of what i could have been. And so i need to morn for that and then put it away.
Knowing that my mom couldn't help herself i guess makes it somewhat easier to except. But it doesn't make the pain any less.
I think in time that we will be able to except ourselves as we are and thank God for our lives just as they are. I know that we are strong because of our pasts. And it is this strength that enables us to carry on. i feel so blessed to have you gal's. For the first time in my life i am able to talk about my mom. You gal's understand and so in talking about our feelings i think we are helping each other heal.
Remember to be kind to yourselves. Peace

Isn't it difficult to put your parents and serial killers in the same envalope? I mean they weren't up for awards, but they weren't that bad. But yes, the whippings because we were there, never did seem right. My mother never hurt with violence. She got her licks from dad as well. She hurt by resisting and resenting us needing her.
When we took my mother in for her doc to evaluate her, both the gp and the neurologist asked if she had ever been abused. Each time she said, 'no.' each time I reminded her of dad. Each time she said "oh yea, that was bad wasn't it?" She thought that it would strengthen us and make us into stronger people. I am twitchy at best and my brother is nice and strong. yes, golden boy. But it was hard on him too, and he is suffering the affects as well, but he may not realize it. I was thinking that the reason he may pop in and fluff stuff up, is because he thinks he is helping. And as long as things are stired up, then he has done something positive. He isn't whole. I spent as much time with the sane relatives as I could. He endured the brunt of it. He is still trying to please them. I stay away, he swoops in and 'fixes' things. Which fixes nothing. The care giver always knows when he has been there, because he has taken something apart and leaves it there..non functioning. It either has to await his return, weeks- months..who knows, or we have to get it taken care of. he fixes things by making sure they are positively broken, So we will adress the issue, which wasn't an issue until he popped in.

It is important to me that they know when the line has been crossed. I keep my distance, and then something happens that I have to be involved with them again. I am involved everyday, but they do not know that. (Ignore the woman behind the curtian!) I am fortunate to be able to use my father's money to pay for his care. When that is gone, I start selling property. Oddly, He chose me for this over a decade ago. he knew I would do what needed to be done. So now here is the really big question? Nature, or nurture, or am I a fluke?

Was I conditioned to care for him from fear, control, or guilt? Or would I have done this anyway? I loved my grandparents and would have moved the world for them. If dad had been a nice guy, this would be so much easier. I WOULD HAVE TAKEN CARE OF THEM ANYWAY!
Really, I walked away from any contact with my brother for over 13 years. Then dad had his stroke and we had to interact. I just follow behind and sweep up after him. I think my angel care giver is getting a raise. It isn't my money. and it cheeses my brother off. I expect to get nothing anyway...and He's already planning how to spend it.
opps. I am showing evil tendencies again. I am going to go hug my boy. He is a great antidote.

Sec Sis,
It is almost like a funeral to the soul, divorcing them from you emotionally. All you need to do is play the part of caretaker, and as you have done already, set it up for others now to take over. You have gone through all the abuse. It's amazing that no professional doctor or attorney has not suggested this sooner for you. All you did during this time was internalize the abuse. I hope I have shed an great amount of light to you gals on this disease. Please let me know if you want me to post more insight to this (by means of others "posts" that have gone before us). It has helped me immensly to understand 'their' disease and how 'they' affected us, and the psychological mechanics of what makes them tick.

Girls remember - try not to internalize their abuse no longer! My mom's psychotherpist that comes to house told me "Why do you listen". I was so ticked at him, until a couple of days later 'I GOT IT'. It trully dawned on me what he meant...why listen to the ravings of a madman so to speak.

Double wow!

My mother was very abusive. I do remember the spankings-with a belt. And being made to stand in a corner. My sister tells me she made her stand outside naked, saying, "if you don't like what I provide for you, go somewhere else." She also tells of our mother trying to kill her by purposefully pushing her down the stairs. I don't remember that. But I was 2 years older, and probably in school by then.

I'm beginning to wonder why I would want to be my mother's Guardian any more, as she is making my life miserable, and her complaints and accusations know no end. It's getting harder every day. The more I give, the more vicious she becomes. It is pure evil. I think I'm sadder than mad, though.

Gvergrl, It was the weekend before this past Memorial day when I stumbled on an excellent website that covered NPD. I don't even know how I found it. I just know that Friday night at work I engrossed myself on every website on the subject of NPD. There are some good websites but they usually are blogs and posts from folks like us that have gone through it. I had searched all my life for an answer to what my folks issue was and it was definetly enlightening to read up on everything I could find. Please note some psychology sites discuss it with few words, but the psychoologist that know this subject deeply go into more detail. The people who have lived it go in the most deepest detail. I finally started to feel so much better after reading tons of people's posts and what really good psychologists have to say about the subject.

They will never seek help, due to they do not realize something is wrong with them - EVER!

Yes my German Shepard - Cindy would put her head on my shoulder as I would sit on the back porch crying.

Hmmm interesting what you mentioned about your brother... was he the 'Golden Child'? Sometimes they follow in NPD footsteps.

Here is another article from a gal who dedicated an entire website to her dilema of NPD in her life:

Every abuser, every narcissist, every psychopath, every rapist, arsonist, every sociopath is after one thing: power. Power over others. This is an outgrowth of the narcissistic need to have all attention focused on them. We already understand that attention is the drug that the narcissist pursues at every moment. This is the core motivation that moves them. There are natural branches that sprout off this trunk and the desire for power over others is one of them. The intoxicating thrill of absolute power is the biggest high they can get from their drug of choice.


The extent to which an individual will pursue their quest for power is determined only by what they feel they can get away with. No small part of this is how much they fear authority or the law. The narcissist mother will not pursue absolute power to the degree that the psychopathic serial killer will. But make no mistake -- both are consumed by the quest for power over others. Unchecked pursuit of power is destructive and merciless as well as escalating. As Proverbs 27:20 says in the Contemporary English Version, "Death and the grave are never satisfied, and neither are we." The grave never protests when someone dies, "We're full up here. We aren't accepting any more death, sorry." Death is always ready to open up her insatiable arms for yet another. So is the lust that drives the malignant narcissist of all brands and stripes. Never satisfied. Never satiated. Never content. Never full.

Kathy Krajco defined what absolute power looks like:

What is absolute power? It's absolute control, possession. Surely you have recognized the lust for it in the bizarre crimes committed by psychopaths. Mike DeBardeleben, a sexual sadist serving a life sentence wrote in his journal that it is "to force her to undergo suffering without her being able to defend herself."

"Without her being able to defend herself" are the key words. It isn't enough to torment the victim: this must be done in a way that keeps her from resisting. That's absolute power, possession...

This is the ultimate in mental cruelty = making the victim bend over for it. Then the sick-o gets to pretend that the victim truly does "want it," has ceased to exist as a person (with a free will) and is but an appendage of his that he thus "proves" his absolute power over.

All narcissists do this in one way of another: they don't merely abuse, they FORCE SUBMISSION TO ABUSE. This makes them God, whose punishing wounds we are to shamefully accept as our fault. We are not to resist: we are to simply hang our heads as deserving of them.
Notice that what is required for this to work is for the narcissist to completely disarm their victims. No right to self-defense is allowed! This is what they must strip you of first before they can go on to pretend that you are submitting to them of your own free will. Like they deserve such submission and like you've freely given it. Either they will use psychological tactics to get you to feel you have no right to defend yourself, or, as in the case of the serial killer, they will arrange your physical circumstances to make it impossible for you to defend yourself and then break you down mentally.

I made an argument in this post that your most fundamental right as a living being is the right to self-defense. It is this very right which the narcissist will first try to convince you that you don't have. It is the right that the proxies and bystanders will tell you that you don't have. "Turn the other cheek" is the pious phrasing far too many victims of abusers have gotten for advice when they desperately have sought for help with their situation. It is essential that victims of narcissists are re-armed with the knowledge of their right to self-defense if they are ever going to be able to resist and break the narcissist's power over them.

Knowing that a narcissist is driven by their need for power over others, and knowing they are always in search of this headiest drug which is absolute power over others, then you'll also be aware that they must force your submission in order to feel powerful over you. All this leads straight to the fact that a narcissist must deprive you of your right to defend yourself to accomplish this. They will always do this by fraud, lies, and threats. They will bring in their proxies to help them get you to submit to that which no one should ever have to submit to. They want to be able to pretend that your forced submission is a real submission...and this can only be done if they successfully deprive you of your ability to defend yourself. Can you see how incredibly important it is to be fully aware of your right to NOT submit to abuse? I am convinced that no one breaks free of the power of a narcissist over them until they are able to claim for themselves the right to self-defense.

It is important to mention here one very tricky sleight-of-hand that a narcissist does to disarm someone from self-defense. This is accomplished by intentionally mislabeling your defensive behaviors as being "retribution" or "vengeance". They accuse you of hurting them. They pretend to know your motives and lay the accusation that any efforts you make to defend yourself are actually coming from your desire to hurt them. If they can convince you that you are being vengeful, or at least if they can convince you that others see you as being vengeful, then they can shut you down. Force your submission once again. This happens very often when a victim of a narcissist goes into no contact. The pious howling of the narcissist contends that your cutting them off is itself abusive and is therefore coming from a spirit of malice and revenge on your part. Your act of "no contact", which is as mild and non-reproachful of a way of dealing with a serial abuser that there is, becomes conflated to be proof of your cruelty, malice, and vengeance. Don't fall for such insane logic! Don't let someone convince you of having motives you don't have! Don't let the narcissist disarm you that easily!

I used "no contact" as merely one example of self-defense that can be mislabled by the narcissist. Any type of self-defense can be characterized this way by the narcissist and will be. Expect it. Be prepared for it. Don't fall for it.

As I've been writing this I've had a clear memory of my mother quite literally demanding that I "bend over for it." For the first ten years of my life spankings were dished out frequently. For a period of time when I was around five or six the spankings were daily events. My mother was nearly always in a foul temper and the slightest infraction would be severely punished. Here's how it would go.

I would be called into her bedroom. Many times both my sister and I were summoned at the same time. My mother would then, through her teeth, demand we stand at the foot of her bed and bend over for our spanking.

The reflexive reaction of someone anticipating pain on their backside is to protect that backside. The hands would go over our asses. The act of having to willfully bend over the bed was also contrary to the desire to protect oneself. I remember with perfect clarity the terrible stiffness of my posture as I had to work with all my power to force myself to bend over for what was coming. Then, if my little hands were still covering my butt my mother wouldn't spank. She would grit her teeth until I could hear them grind and demand that I put my hands in front of me. I don't know that I can describe the intense difficulty with which this was accomplished on my part. The fear of her rage escalating and punishment becoming even worse is how I convinced myself to comply.

I have no doubt now as I look back on this scene repeated so many times over in my life that my mother could pretend I believed I was deserving of every ounce of her rage and punishment because I would cooperate by bending over and not in any way resisting my punishment. She taught us from our earliest moments that if we ever attempted to run away from her when she came for us that it would be punished with overwhelming force. So, there were no chases around that bed or the house. No, every vestige of resistance was removed before she would commence pounding our asses. I have no memory of her ever spanking me while my hands were still covering my backside. She waited as long as it took to get the total compliance that must have made these sessions such a pleasure for her sadistic torture of her children.

My mother removed all other of my rights to self-defense as well, but the above is the most literal example of her demanding that I "bend over for it." My mother has for most of her life gotten most of her narcissistic thrills from the children in her power which included other people's children that were entrusted to her care. (How well do you know your daycare worker, hmm?)

She worked tirelessly to ensure that I didn't try to defend myself psychologically from her predations as well. All signs of resistance were squelched with ferocity and swiftness. I had to go "underground" in my resistance. It was a profound secret. I had to reach my mid-teens before I mounted an organized mental resistance to her cruelties and torments. All this was accomplished in the privacy of my thoughts. This is really the only place that children can resist the power of a narcissist's control. In their thought life. Never condemn a child for their compliance to an abusive parent. The parent holds absolute control over that child's life. The child is only trying to survive. The most sad thing is that many of these children grow up still convinced they have no right to defend themselves or their own children from the narcissist thus forcing subsequent generations to be blood supply for the vampiric family narcissist(s).

Remember, self-defense is directly related to the right to live. The narcissist makes their "living" by denying you have a right to live your own life. They will work tirelessly to convince you that "resistance if futile; you will be assimilated"...to quote the Borg in Star Trek. You don't have to be assimilated. Even if you are presently in a situation where it appears you have no power...you have your own mind. All self-defense starts there. In your private thoughts. Nurture those thoughts and circumstance will afford you opportunity at some point to escape because you'll be looking for those circumstances and will be ready to seize them the moment they appear.

Wow! gvergrl, I was in a rush of feelings from reading your posts. My heart cries for you. It puts my feelings in perspective, and makes me want to reach out to you and make it all better. But I can't. I will just pray you can heal from the damage that has been done. You are definitely not alone, and there are people who care, and are rooting for you. I hope you find this a safe place to unburden your hurting soul, and that it is cathartic for you. Please be gentle with yourself. No more condemnation! I am proud of you for being so transparent, and only wish the best for you. God, the Comforter be with you in this journey.

YIPE! I went to the link you posted, ms piratess, and read though the front of the book. Yes. I am a text book case. I AM SOMBODY! a mess. but aside from all that...

Anyone who mentions their dog's assistance in the credits is okay to me. How many of you got your affection growing up from the family pet? It was difficult on those poor beasts as well. maybe they came to me because I was all they had.

When my son was in elementary school. I helped out a lot. I saw faces that reminded me of my childhood. I knew that look. I mentioned it to my son's teacher and she said that there are so many kids that JUST get food, clean clothes, and a place to sleep. and only that. It isn't neglect and there isn't anything that can be done. They can do something if they see bruising, or if they suspect sexual asault, but they can not even bend down and give those poor kids a hug. I wish , I don't really know what I wish for. I wish someone could be there for them. I wish there could be some help for the little faces just being born into this.

Three months ago, this was just me falling apart, and now it is a whole world of people trying to keep it together.
I am going to buy the book. It isn't that much. Priced to help.

Yes, I know what they say is untrue... but not really. You know the tricks. When you do something good and have the EGO to be happy with it, then they pull out the psyc books and tell you what's wrong with you. (like I am now starting to do to them, but It is to help me not hurt them. ) When you make sense, then it is circular logic. They can't all be crazy. It must be me. 3 against one, what are the odds to that? I mean really? They are all so over educated and high I.Q.'s. I was dyslexic and an embassasment. I fell for it.

I now know it's them. It is just difficult to shake the conditioning.
My brother has been fluffing up the bed a bit. The caregiver-who is an angel sent by God -is in tears because he is trying the 'you are not good enough' bit on her. AUGGGGGH! to the 12th power. I know she cleans up the pee everyday, but he pees all the time. I know she cleans up the tobacco spit, and food, and dishes he tosses on the floor...but he does it all the time. My hardest urge to resist is not giving her a raise every week. If he had worked as hard as we did just to get someone who would be willing to be around my father, let alone clean up after him... he wouldn't be so hot to be the king of condemnation. The word she used for my brother is 'Controling'. Thus my need to be venting today. Just when things calm down... They can't stand 'calm,' can they? It is the 'look at me' syndrome isn't it? I get the oil on the water, and someone has to throw a lit match into it.

Seems everone knows about this book but me. Next outing to the library I'll get it. But honestly, as much as I have really benefited from all that you dear souls have written about...I will have a very difficult time entering that part of my brain, reading about it.
It is like lancing a boil. we know it will help, but cutting into a wound is scary. I do not know if I have the energy to remember all of it. Sometimes, far away is better.

Piratess, Good for you to look for a way to understand them when you were younger. I just tried very hard to make them happy. It must be miserable to never be happy. SO WHY DIDN"T THEY SEEK OUT HELP?!
right. no answer. No 'why.' it just is. That alone is a huge help for me. I have filleted my brain trying to understand 'why.' I guess that's why my brain always hurts. I just need to accept what is for what it is. Sounds so easy, but it will take a lot to actually do.

Yes girls, we do have a lot in common, from the very first roots of this disease until the end. They have affected us since childhood and they will not change, there is no drugs, there is no therapy for these folks (due to they will never recognize within themselves that anything is wrong with them). Either you endure them or go No Contact as many other blogs and posts have related over the time of my research. When I was off for those 4 weeks I went to the library tried to find anything on NPD, it was a real disappointment, however, I did find this one book "If You Had Controlling Parents" http://www.harpercollins.com/books/9780061453465/If_You_Had_Controlling_Parents/index.aspx
I suggest getting it out of the Library (or purchasing) and reading it, it will help explain why our parents are why they are. I know it doesn't help right away after you read it, because you are so furious inside, but it does explain a lot. I had suspicicions of why my parents were the way they were and the book re-inforced it. I have learned you cannot internalize their insults, you have to bravely shrug them off, heck, you know better deep down about what they say about you is untrue. The way it gets to us, is because they are our parents, and we so much as humans and children want approval of our parents. But our parents have sacrificed us so to seems to fulfill their needs of 'CONTROL", that is why they are so disrespectful of us and why they are so mean to us. It makes them feel better and bigger and able to CONTROL something. That is why they cannot bully outside help, as caregivers or court appointed guardians, social workers, because they know they cannot get away with it. In this book I have mentioned it enforces the idea that 'this type' of parent feels they own us...yes like serfs, slaves, etc. To do their bidding and lo if we do not fullfill then the hammer of 'Thor' will come down. I know we all know it..it's a form of conditioning they utilize when we are just tiny little children ' do as I say - OR ELSE '. The fear factor gets played on so many levels. I hope this helps a bit.

By the way the Risperdal has helped my 'mommy dearest' thanks to the heavens...I hope it stays that way.

So be brave sisters...be brave...check out the book I mentioned...it helps explain and gives some coping ideas as well.

A kiss to you. That made me cry. But in a good way. Thank you so much.

Dear Jan,

My heart goes out to you. My goodness you have been through so much. From your writing, it seems so much more than me. You have a good way of expressing yourself, and I am deeply touched by your words. Here you are, struggling with your past and accompanying consequences, and trying to comfort me. I am impressed by your strength to overlook your own emotional pain, and compassionately reach out to someone else. That is impressive, and speaks volumes about you. And don't believe the lies. You are not a freak, but a beautiful lady, with a bouyant spirit, who is an overcomer, and a blessing to others. Your parents may never see that, but the rest of us can. I can relate to your pain. The question is, what to do with it! You have turned some of your sad past around into being a help to others. Thanks so much for sharing your story, and for being an encouragement. Bless you for that!